Can Solar & Wind Fix Everything (e.g., Climate Change) with a battery break-through?

[svetz]

 

[svetz]

 

[grizzzman]

China is surging ahead with coal, a new report shows, rapidly approving and building new power plants despite its own promises to cut back on carbon as the world plunges ever deeper into the climate crisis.


Last year, the country approved the highest number of new coal-fired power plants since 2015, according to the report, released Monday by the Center for Research on Energy and Clean Air (CREA) and the Global Energy Monitor (GEM).


“China continues to be the glaring exception to the ongoing global decline in coal plant development,” said Flora Champenois, a research analyst at GEM.

China’s emissions are more than double those of the United States, and though the country’s leaders have previously vowed to cut back on carbon, its reliance on coal poses a significant challenge.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/27/energy/china-new-coal-plants-climate-report-intl-hnk/index.html

 

[svetz]

Last year, the country approved the highest number of new coal-fired power plants since 2015, according to the report,

As the Electric Viking said, "It may or may not be real". But, there are misleading items with the report you cited. For example:

Global Energy Monitor (GEM) takes a closer look at China’s permitting of new coal power plants in 2022

Permits are very different from actual builds. Then there's:

The coal power capacity starting construction in China was six times as large as that in all of the rest of the world combined.

It would be interesting to see the assumptions on that are since China can't possibly use six times as much power as the rest of the world combined.

It's important to keep perspective when reading some articles. That six times probably means versus new coal builds in other countries... but other countries may not be doing much with new coal since they know how problematic it is so it sounds big. Other sources quote China as having built 2 new coal power plants in 2022 raising them from 26.2 GW in 2021 to 26.8 GW in 2022. Of course, that source could be wrong too. Hard to know what's really real in China.

 

[svetz]

Finding the 22%...​

From the breakdown a few posts above, the agricultural sector seems to be the one with the least amount of "give". But it can't all be GHG production as growing plants consume CO2 from the air?

From this 2020 EPA Report:

​

The biggest GHG producers in Agriculture seem to be soil management, burps and farts, and manure.

It seems that plants must consume more CO2 than it takes to grow them, so if the carbon can be sequestered than Soil Management is like a form of CDR, that is it should have a net negative effect. I've been trying to get precise numbers on that, but "forest" land is tied into most of what I've seen so I haven't yet seen a detailed net analysis just for crops. What I've seen in "general" (so take this with a grain of salt) is that both are around 30%.

But 30% > 22%. So, does that mean leaving the agricultural sector alone (e.g., keeping real beef hamburgers) resolve the rest of the issues and leave us some "spare" GHG to cover concrete and possibly reduce atmospheric GHGs? That is, electrification is enough?

 

[svetz]

From what I'm reading, while plants do absorb a lot of carbon dioxide while growing, it's not a defacto long-term sequestration. An IPCC report calls it practically a wash:

Despite large annual exchanges of CO2 between theatmosphere and agricultural lands, the net flux is estimated to be approximately balanced, with CO2 emissions around 0.04GtCO2/yr only

But, people are seeking/testing ways to increase the sequestration. There seems to be a wide range of techniques, from simple tilling changes, to crop cover, to biochar, and many more.

But, if it's just a small net positive, then it's not something we have to worry about. So, starting to look more and more like electrification gets us all but the last few percent.

 

[grizzzman]

This seems it should posted here. Trust China?

 

[svetz]

This seems it should posted here. Trust China?

I saw that and didn't know what to make of it. That all the cars were identical in color/shape made me wonder if the photo was photoshopped. It could also just be that they were parked there waiting to be shipped. Given the sales numbers, it seemed equally likely someone seeking to hurt BYD misled the you-tuber. Seeing a thousand cars in a field doesn't mean they are abandoned. For example, here's a photo of acres of Fords waiting to be shipped:

Wikipedia reports older scams involving BYD, so they're not strangers to it. Anyone that's been scammed off Alibaba can tell you, there are a lot of scams going on in China and it's hard to trust anything. In fact, there was a recent scam where a con man penned a marketing deal between BYD and another company (which BYD didn't know anything about).

BYD stock is publically traded, and they all have laws against that sort of thing - so if true they should get really big fines, but more importantly, it should be really big news and not just a YT video from one guy. Of course, that might take a long while.

 

[D71]

I saw that and didn't know what to make of it. That all the cars were identical in color/shape made me wonder if the photo was photoshopped. It could also just be that they were parked there waiting to be shipped. Given the sales numbers, it seemed equally likely someone seeking to hurt BYD misled the you-tuber. Seeing a thousand cars in a field doesn't mean they are abandoned. For example, here's a photo of acres of Fords waiting to be shipped:

Wikipedia reports older scams involving BYD, so they're not strangers to it. Anyone that's been scammed off Alibaba can tell you, there are a lot of scams going on in China and it's hard to trust anything. In fact, there was a recent scam where a con man penned a marketing deal between BYD and another company (which BYD didn't know anything about).

BYD stock is publically traded, and they all have laws against that sort of thing - so if true they should get really big fines, but more importantly, it should be really big news and not just a YT video from one guy. Of course, that might take a long while.

These are SHARE vehicles. I was more disappointed to see all the bicycles in piles vs the cars. Not sure why but bicycles to me can be used for about forever unless frame damaged. Waste.

the cars are more then likely toast if left to sit since 2021. Small rodents have probably feasted on the wiring. None of these would have been used much if china was locked down with covid. Right?

SHARE vehicles are what our govt and some ppl want for us here in USA. We have bicycles already. Uber is better idea vs SHARE for autos. Means someone might be more likely take care of car as a Uber driver. Right? Think how some ppl treat rental cars. Right?

 

[svetz]

These are SHARE vehicles. I know the video said they were, but the image is too grainy to really tell if they actually have license plates.

If it's not unusual to see acres of new cars sitting idle in the U.S., have to think it would happen in China too. BYD sales also tanked in Europe, so I'd expect there to be fields of them somewhere. So it might just be some people suspecting a scam (not like it's uncommon there or here). But the YouTuber could be right too, you just never know with China.

 

[D71]

I know the video said they were, but the image is too grainy to really tell if they actually have license plates.

View attachment 153201

If it's not unusual to see acres of new cars sitting idle in the U.S., have to think it would happen in China too. BYD sales also tanked in Europe, so I'd expect there to be fields of them somewhere. So it might just be some people suspecting a scam (not like it's uncommon there or here). But the YouTuber could be right too, you just never know with China.

If you remember the VW TDI - diesel epa cheating software scandal - that resulted in tons of vw being stored in fields when the vw company were forced to give refunds and such. Damn shame account most of those vw diesel were good vehicles capable of great mpg. The new replacement software reportedly turned them into dogs. Not sure what happened to all of them. I hope they are not still sitting in fields.

Justice Department, EPA sue Volkswagen over emissions-cheating software in diesel cars

WASHINGTON — The Justice Department sued Volkswagen on Monday over emissions-cheating software found in nearly 600,000 vehicles sold in the United States, potentially exposing the company to billions in fines for clean air violations.

www.pbs.org

At the time all this broke VW was toying with diesel that were getting 60mpg + in development …… shame Volvo had troubles too. I lived in a State where the emissions were checked if you failed had to spend $350 - $500 in certified receipts trying to fix it or no tags would be issued. It is a scam and only certain shops were recognized for doing the work requirements. Money grab. Govt Steering for repair shops.(law suit) Seem like the test fee was $20 a year again had to have that to get tags renewed. Seem like $1 went to State and $19 went to private epa emission tester. (Racket) If you were on welfare and vehicle failed just get a free govt waiver and pollute away. What was funny were the Volvo owners failing the emission test and Volvo backed up servicing them - to my knowledge Volvo had to buy back
some too. Volvo were clean by standards but it logged auto computer faults because it was to strict for it’s own software parameters. No vehicle computer emission faults were allowed to exist or the Volvo car failed State emission test. It was a mess. Crazy Bureaucracy.

There were fields and fields of VW diesel from the software scandal ? it was a waste.

 

[svetz]

This video is about species extinction, while it was interesting enough to mention I want to add the caveat that it's doomy/gloomy - so not for those who have problems sleeping at night. While it seems factual, I believe it falls somewhat onto the "hysterical" side of things as humans (with their enormous brains) are fairly adaptable creatures.

If you remember the VW TDI - diesel epa cheating software scandal...

When Dieselgate broke I thought VW might go under. I was also surprised by the deliberate and flagrant breaking of laws by a major corporation and the unfairness to the competition (assuming others weren't doing it and just didn't get caught).
But they're back stronger than ever and a very big player in the EV market.

 

[grizzzman]

This video is about species extinction, while it was interesting enough to mention I want to add the caveat that it's doomy/gloomy - so not for those who have problems sleeping at night. While it seems factual, I believe it falls somewhat onto the "hysterical" side of things as humans (with their enormous brains) are fairly adaptable creatures.

The level of fear mongering is high with a heavy dose of assuming based on a small amount of data with little chance of success. I find the age group as interesting. No wonder many kids are freaking out about climate change.

 

[MurphyGuy]

The level of fear mongering is high with a heavy dose of assuming based on a small amount of data with little chance of success. I find the age group as interesting. No wonder many kids are freaking out about climate change.

Lets assume the projected consequences are correct for a moment... What are the results if we don't make the required changes? What are the results if we do make the required changes?

Lets assume the projected consequences are overblown... Same two questions.. What are the results if we don't make changes and if we do?

 

[grizzzman]

Lets assume the projected consequences are correct for a moment... What are the results if we don't make the required changes? What are the results if we do make the required changes?

Lets assume the projected consequences are overblown... Same two questions.. What are the results if we don't make changes and if we do?

Well in the past. It has been natural selection. Adapt to the change or be no more. You see the ones that adapt tend to survive.

 

[D71]

Our solution to saving animals - species is collect them up and put them in a zoo cage, force breed them, reintroduce to select areas, and not maintain.

Florida and South Carolina gators are an example. South Carolina made all kinds of laws to protect gators. They have more rights then ppl or so it seems. Remember the Disney gator eating the child? Bad gator…. Or is it dumb human since Disney displaced a natural swamp? Last time at Disney there were a lot of transgenders being overly flamboyant scaring kids and it wasn’t even pride month - these were the Disney workers. The obviously gay Peter Pan bowling balled the little girls out of the way to get to the little boys. Everyone had that wtf look on their face as they collected kids to walk away. Notice how a certain group of humans are being made special now. No? Are you wondering which group as in more then 1 or have you assumed to know?

Don’t you think some animals are just meant to go extinct?. Hence why majority dinosaur type creature are gone - extinct …… scientist discovered wooly mammoth with food still in their mouth. WM Died so quickly that it happened while casually eating …… they never knew what killed them. Humane way to go. For all our pandering could go same way despite all our focus on just 1 aspect of extinction for an end. Get it?

The Big Brain has ways of compensating for situations that can’t be controlled…. We latch onto things that we think can control. Insanity takes over in some cases. Another natural response. Ever seen a wild animal placed in small cage - drives them insane. Yet some dog owners are humane and keep their dogs in a small restricted dog box only let out few hours a day to pee poop eat drink water and back into the box they go. Those dog owners just love their pets to death. I consider them cruel and twisted pet owners that should not own dogs.

Now Let’s say we see a lion and a zebra The lion chases the Zebra not for fun but because it needs food to keep from dying and the lion species from going extinct. The lion has young ones to feed too unless it is an lgbtq+ lion. Lot of ppl view the Zebra as being killed a horrible awful avoidable thing aka not necessary. Cat owners will often try to make their small domestic cats into vegetarians. Neither the small nor large cats are vegetarians and their teeth - digestive systems are not designed by evolution to eat vegetables. You believe in evolution? Most times cats will eat vegetables and grass when they want to throw up a fur ball. Right? Vegetables are not on their diet although cat nip is like thc to humans.
Yet along comes humans that want to turn the cats: big and small into vegetarians. Give them some cat nip to take minds off vegetables.
BTW studies show if a cat owner dies the cat will feast on them that day. Food chain apex predator big brain is food. A dog will give you a day or 2 to let you tenderize…. about time they run out of regular food in their bowls..too.

Climate change animals….. Did you know reports are Polar Bears are not white? Did you know grizzly - kodiak bears usually brown in color scare white looking polar bears even though the brown bears are smaller? There are youtube videos of a single brown bear taking food from larger groups of polar bears. The Polar bears have no molars according to what I have read. Completely dedicate meat eaters. They - polar bears only eat meat = carnivores. The grizzly - brown bears have molars and are called omnivores meaning they eat everything and are creatures of opportunity. The grizzly bears - brown bears once ruled the lower 48 states. They were monsters because were top of food chain. Ppl aka Indians got ate by brown bear all the time as did white settlers. That doesn’t happen much and is rare now. We hunted thise monsters down and reduced their population. Most Bears by dna altering, evolution, or something know humans are a threat to them now. Sound of a gun - the bears run away in most cases.
Do you think it would been better to allowed the brown bears to keep their place as an apex predator and feed on humans?
If polar bears had molars would they be reported as endangered?

Have you read or heard the story of Noah’s ark from the Bible? You should read it.

Your video described preserving species.
Think about this if you had to select just 20 humans to preserve the human race would you select lgbtq+ ppl? Or would you discriminate? Nature really does discriminate. When females of all species breed they are usually are very selective….red birds often stick with red birds and blue birds often stick to blue birds…. Or the male just takes it when forced - caged together. Ever notice we separate chickens by egg production and meat production….farmers are very discrimination prone. Sorry f’s.
So In story of Noah’s Ark - …..Noah and selected family took a male and a female of all the species collected to reproduce - repopulate the world onto the ark before the great flood. So we now know inbreeding cause deformities…… so if true are the species the original or a deformed evolved version. Humans have gathered and multiplied in like groups in the past…just look at the Japanese and their customs traditions to preserve themselves as a unique group…. Of humans. Were they on the ark.?

More notices: Bill Gates has subscribed to population reduction in the past because I remember it broadcast at the times he did it. Eye witness. That is the problem with being old = we have direct at the moment life experiences. Bill Gates was very open and repeated his views often. That is why when ignorant younger generations come along and try to cover for Bill Gates…. we the older generation that lived it say bs. You weren’t there. You were not even born. Your mother (woman) had not selected your father (man) to reproduce you as an off spring a modified version of their 2 sexes. We have real and then we have pretend. If your mom and dad were both male you would not exist ….. so that is one reason 92.8% of the regular UsA citizens in usa won’t buy climate change from ~7.2 % transgenders pushing climate change. It is called discrimination because majority of ppl know to continue species requires man and a woman even if they want a test tube baby …. So there is that take away from your video. Plus Bill Gates can’t be undone for his past remarks or covered for by the new generations. Btw there are only 2 sex male and female Science in the past taught it was insane to say otherwise for obvious reasons. Just like WE DO NOT KNOW HOW WE WILL GO EXTINCT. It is mere speculations for how we end

I actually watched your whole video. Cranky Uncle responded to it. Hope you can interpret it. ??? Probably not what you wanted to read. Just imagine if ppl were STILL living in fear from monster giant brown bear in lower 48 states in usa. BTW ppl need guns in Alaska to keep wild animal from eating them. When kids go to catch school bus or walk to school an armed person must escort them to keep safe. In Montana fishing guides have to carry guns to protect their clients when fishing = now = due to so many wolves being reintroduced. Bear and Wolves use to be natural enemy - competing predators where one would kill the other - Simply take their food. Predators often kill and take shared resources. Humans do that too. Just like some younger ppl want to murder older ppl . ??? That way they can save the planet.

 

[MurphyGuy]

Well in the past. It has been natural selection. Adapt to the change or be no more. You see the ones that adapt tend to survive.

I'm unsure of how to interpret your reply. I'm going to assume and give you the benefit of the doubt that you're not so stupid as to actually suggest a "strong survive" philosophy, so I'm guessing that must have been sarcasm.

I was asking a serious question....

 

[grizzzman]

I'm unsure of how to interpret your reply. I'm going to assume and give you the benefit of the doubt that you're not so stupid as to actually suggest a "strong survive" philosophy, so I'm guessing that must have been sarcasm.

I was asking a serious question....

Well perhaps this will explain it better then I.

More than 99 percent of all organisms that have ever lived on Earth are extinct. As new species evolve to fit ever changing ecological niches, older species fade away. But the rate of extinction is far from constant. At least a handful of times in the last 500 million years, 75 to more than 90 percent of all species on Earth have disappeared in a geological blink of an eye in catastrophes we call mass extinctions.

Mass extinction facts and information from National Geographic

In the last 500 million years, life has had to recover from five catastrophic blows. Are humans dealing the planet a sixth?

www.nationalgeographic.com

The other 10% found a way to adapt to the changing conditions, so if the as you put it "strong survive" philosophy was part of the strategy then so be it. But to be fair they were your words not mine.
There was no sarcasm intended with my comments.

 

[MurphyGuy]

Well perhaps this will explain it better then I.

More than 99 percent of all organisms that have ever lived on Earth are extinct. As new species evolve to fit ever changing ecological niches, older species fade away. But the rate of extinction is far from constant. At least a handful of times in the last 500 million years, 75 to more than 90 percent of all species on Earth have disappeared in a geological blink of an eye in catastrophes we call mass extinctions.

Mass extinction facts and information from National Geographic

In the last 500 million years, life has had to recover from five catastrophic blows. Are humans dealing the planet a sixth?

www.nationalgeographic.com

The other 10% found a way to adapt to the changing conditions, so if the as you put it "strong survive" philosophy was part of the strategy then so be it. But to be fair they were your words not mine.
There was no sarcasm intended with my comments.

So your philosophy is to allow our planet to warm up and if humans can't survive then so be it?

 

[grizzzman]

So your philosophy is to allow our planet to warm up and if humans can't survive then so be it?

You sure like to put words in other people mouths. I'm more in the belief that if the climate changes, ( And it always does ) As a species we will adapt and survive. Do I believe that we affect the climate... Yep, but the climate and how we truly affect it is what I question. It all comes from the earth and will return to the earth.
On a side note how much bad stuff comes from war? Would It be a good idea to stop it in the name of climate? Not one dam peep about that.

 

[MurphyGuy]

You sure like to put words in other people mouths.

I'm sorry if you think I did that, it wasn't my intention.. There was a question mark at the end. It was a question, not a statement of anything you said.

I'm more in the belief that if the climate changes, ( And it always does ) As a species we will adapt and survive. Do I believe that we affect the climate... Yep, but the climate and how we truly affect it is what I question. It all comes from the earth and will return to the earth.

The climate does not significantly change on human time scales unless a catastrophic event (space rock or super volcano) happens. Evolution and adaptation of a species takes time and requires geological time scales to occur, and if the environment changes faster than that adaptation takes place, then a species goes extinct.

As far as how we truly affect the climate, that is an argument which circles back to my original question of what happens if we take action (or not) and we're right about it, and what happens if we take action (or not) and it was a false alarm (we're wrong).

On a side note how much bad stuff comes from war? Would It be a good idea to stop it in the name of climate? Not one dam peep about that.

I'm all for stopping wars, but short of an all out nuclear exchange, wars don't have any more of a significant impact on climate change than an extra piece of printer paper has on your house burning down.

Information is only useful if it comes with comprehension. Pretty much every drop of water on the planet has lead or mercury in it, so a statement that your drinking water has toxic lead or toxic mercury is accurate and true.. Without comprehension, one might panic that their water is poisoned with toxic metals.. with comprehension, we understand that a single atom or two isn't going to cause any quantifiable harm.

 

[svetz]

Well in the past. It has been natural selection. Adapt to the change or be no more. You see the ones that adapt tend to survive.

In the past, species have had a lot longer to adapt to "normal" climate change. Many generations. Not so with this climate change. It's not quite as fast as an asteroid strike that plunges the world into an ice age and kills off +90% of all species world wide, but it's not far off either in terms of time.

It would be nice if the fixes happened sooner rather than later. #94 looks at oxygen levels needed for fish to survive. Obviously, a mass extinction in the oceans would be very very bad (although humans would probably adapt).

But, don't freak out about it, it won't get that far because renewable with ESS is cheaper than fossil fuels... it'll happen.

Our solution to saving animals - species is collect them up and put them in a zoo cage

If it comes down to it, we might be a bit busy for that solution. You know humans... it's not urgent, it costs too much.

The Big Brain ….

It's one of our best and worst features. But don't overlook the other big evolutionary advantage humans have: we can sweat efficiently. Doesn't help much in Florida, but it's a really big advantage.

Your video described preserving species.

Not really. It primary message was about what happens to other species when key species die off. The doomy/gloomy bit was we don't know what they key species (if any) are for humans. I think we're smart enough to come up with supplements for whatever is lost. Of course, if the vaccine debate is anything to go by, a lot of people will believe it's just a conspiracy for control and by not taking the supplements their brains will get even more impaired.

I actually watched your whole video. Cranky Uncle responded to it. Hope you can interpret it

I did warn people about the content....

...On a side note how much bad stuff comes from war? Would It be a good idea to stop it in the name of climate? Not one dam peep about that.

Actually, there have been thousands of peeps about that. It just doesn't make "big" news channels. For example: https://www.chathamhouse.org/2023/03/how-russias-war-ukraine-threatening-climate-security.

 

[svetz]

#94 looks at oxygen levels needed for fish to survive. It's in the news...again... Smelly dead fish What's happening? Thousands of dead fish recently washed ashore in Texas, creating a smelly, disgusting mess some on beaches. The same thing happened in Louisiana last June when soaring temperatures and storms caused a "rash of fish kills," according to the state Department of Wildlife and Fisheries. Florida had a major event in 2020 that killed tens of thousands of fish in Biscayne Bay. "The oxygen went to zero, everything died," said Crowl. "It was very sad, we had one section where there were 20 or 30 sting rays swimming upside down trying to gasp for air."

 

[svetz]

Sun too strong for solar panels​

DUP MP Sammy Wilson has tweeted: "The UK has had to start coal fired generators during this heatwave because the sun is too strong and solar panels have had to be taken offline." ref

He's the DUP Chief Whip in Parliament and the Party's Treasury spokesman.

On Monday 12 June, coal power was used for the first time in 46 days, but solar power still generated around one-fifth of the UK's electricity during the middle part of the day.

Just how hot did it get? That was my question when I saw the headline. Looks like the highest in the country was a blistering 30°C (86°F)? The highest temperature last year was 40.3°C (104°F), so possibly I just didn't find the right temperature. Yesterday the heat index temperature here peaked at ~116°F.

More than likely the truth is they had to start up a coal plant as the demand due to AirConditioner load increased.

Wondering how to recapture the outdoors when it's so hot? https://diysolarforum.com/threads/beating-the-heat-with-a-pcm-vest.8908/

 

[MurphyGuy]

Sun too strong for solar panels​

He's the DUP Chief Whip in Parliament and the Party's Treasury spokesman.


Just how hot did it get? That was my question when I saw the headline. Looks like the highest in the country was a blistering 30°C (86°F)? The highest temperature last year was 40.3°C (104°F), so possibly I just didn't find the right temperature. Yesterday the heat index temperature here peaked at ~116°F.

More than likely the truth is they had to start up a coal plant as the demand due to AirConditioner load increased.

Wondering how to recapture the outdoors when it's so hot? https://diysolarforum.com/threads/beating-the-heat-with-a-pcm-vest.8908/

86 degrees (30C) isn't that hot.. we don't even turn on the air conditioning in our own home until its at least 88 and muggy.

I do not like having the air conditioner running because it means we have to close the windows, which means I can't hear the birds or anything else going on outside.