diy solar

diy solar

Can the electrical grid handle a boom in electric vehicles?

With the EV's we are still going thru growing pains, during the 4th of July weekend I stopped on frwy 5 central valley California for gas, that exit had only 6-7 gas station with food next to them and also 2 rows of Tesla fast chargers, people were going from gas station to gas station until I realized there was no power, it was a hot day with all the ACs running and the Tesla fast chargers you can imagine what happen.
In Arizona it is a different story you hardly see an EV on the road mostly because the Li-ion battery will last a couple of years due to high temperatures, when the EVs come with LFP batteries will be a different story.
 
Ted Katsouras said:
With the EV's we are still going thru growing pains, during the 4th of July weekend I stopped on frwy 5 central valley California for gas, that exit had only 6-7 gas station with food next to them and also 2 rows of Tesla fast chargers, people were going from gas station to gas station until I realized there was no power, it was a hot day with all the ACs running and the Tesla fast chargers you can imagine what happen.
Click to expand...
Oof, that's a bad situation. Someone messed up their sizing and load calculations for the substation serving that area, or a high voltage feed line serving multiple substations got overloaded and tripped.

Localized overload situations like that can be abated if (for example) the Tesla supercharger control system is connected to the substation load meters, so the superchargers can adjust power output as needed to avoid tripping the overload protection.
Ted Katsouras said:
In Arizona it is a different story you hardly see an EV on the road mostly because the Li-ion battery will last a couple of years due to high temperatures, when the EVs come with LFP batteries will be a different story.
Click to expand...
Most EV's have active thermal management and will keep the batteries within safe parameters. Some cars don't, this is why you see so many used Leaf's with replaced battery packs after a few years in the US southwest.
 
Wibla said:
AC remains superior due to the reduced losses.
Click to expand...
But what if you are to design a completely new grid based on renewable generation and EVs being the primary load.
DC losses are not such a problem. PV is cheap. Micro grids based on a DC voltage at whatever V is determined to be the best for EV/batteries and fed by a HVDC Line. The HVDC line all extend out from a coast to coast network of UHVDC running parallel to those EVs that run on tracks and overhead DC lines for the past 100 years.
Look around you. Most items are DC and before long EV motor technology will put DC motors into the big power uses like aircond and fridges.
 
The grid goes down a lot over here and it isn't because the power companies run out of power. My grid power went out last night during a thunderstorm for about an hour. This happens enough that it isn't a surprise at all. I watched TV and had fully functioning home internet while the grid was out thanks to the battery backup I built. I think more houses are going to start installing some type of backup systems, maybe even EV to home when EVs become more common.
 
Wibla said:
Localized overload situations like that can be abated if (for example) the Tesla supercharger control system is connected to the substation load meters, so the superchargers can adjust power output as needed to avoid tripping the overload protection.
Click to expand...

This, I think, is the key to many things grid and otherwise.
Cell phones and SOC similarly change their operation to manage power consumption or temperature rise.
It is also a high-leverage way for us to better fit our home to limited inverter, PV, and battery capacity.

Without even data links, volts-watts or frequency-watts could signal both generators and loads to adjust power output/consumption. (frequency is grid-wide, doesn't seem as useful.)
 
A.Justice said:
I imagine something like a water or fire suppression "inlet" somewhere on the outside of the vehicle that has a metal tube directly into the battery housing would be helpful for cooling the fire. Hook up a hose to the inlet, and blast water directly into the batteries.
Click to expand...
Glorious idea.
 
Hedges said:
This, I think, is the key to many things grid and otherwise.
Cell phones and SOC similarly change their operation to manage power consumption or temperature rise.
It is also a high-leverage way for us to better fit our home to limited inverter, PV, and battery capacity.

Without even data links, volts-watts or frequency-watts could signal both generators and loads to adjust power output/consumption. (frequency is grid-wide, doesn't seem as useful.)
Click to expand...
When a tesla vehicle is charging at a supercharger station that is at high usage state, the firmware of the vehicle will automatically reduce the target SOC for charging down to 80% charge instead of 90% or 100% if they are set. This reduces the overall energy delivered when it’s not overridden. One way.

Power delivery to the vehicle is also reduced if someone begins charging from the same branch circuit. Can drop from 150 kW charging down to 60 kW. Or 70 kW down to 30 kW.

The firmware strongly discourages the user charging past 90% SOC and letting it sit.

Messages from local governments can show up, advising the user to be mindful of charging habits during heat wave high demand type days. It’s just a one time pop up that is easily dismissed with a single tap.
 
Looks like some other countries are figuring out potential future grid modifications. US needs to get more proactive and start upgrading it's grid. Here's a couple articles that are discussing potential grid improvements.


www.greentechmedia.com

So, What Exactly Are Virtual Power Plants?

GTM helps explain a growing grid resource that can mimic power plants without dominating the landscape.
www.greentechmedia.com www.greentechmedia.com

I like their thinking. We'll have to see how it can be implemented down the road and if it's affordable to implement. For now, I'll keep my grid tie connection but continue to embellish my backup aka microgrid. Well maybe it's more of a mini microgrid.
 
Primal1 said:
California is requesting that EV owners please stop charging their vehicles because the grid is already overburdened.

Somehow reality keeps interfering with the dream...

Click to expand...
Would like to see the actual CALIFORNIA declaration to stop charging EVs. Link is a bit short on details. Same could be interpreted to mean toasters and hair driers. Maybe even to adjust the air conditioner thermostat.

And I have said it before... Utilities have been giving a public message to give the appliances the afternoon off before Elon was even born.
 
I live in California and have service with PG&E and SCE and I have not received any notice. That is probably a teaser headline sponsored by the Koch brothers or some other oil and gas interest. The best rates for charging an EV are after 11PM so it would be a pretty dumb EV owner who would charge when the grid is stressed from 5PM to 9PM.
 
Putting a 13A load on a 240V circuit for 24 hours is equivalent to a full 72kWh charge, roughly.

A lot of houses have 100A feeder or something from what I’ve read, that kind of tempers my panic.

Charging an EV remains at least an order of magnitude less convenient slower than refueling with a bowl of dinosaur soup.

edit: clarifying context for road trip convenience, not difficulty of operating charger/refueler
 
Last edited:
curiouscarbon said:
Charging an EV remains at least an order of magnitude less convenient than refueling with a bowl of dinosaur soup.
Click to expand...
Having charged EVs at home for ten years my guess is it takes 15 seconds to plug in the cable to my EV. I have rented a few pickups over the years and half of them do not just let you set and forget. Many of them required me to hold the trigger on the pump handle just right or they stop the pump. There is nothing simple about fueling an internal combustion engine.
 
It’s easier, safer, and less stinky, to plug in an EV than to pump dinosaur soup. That’s for sure. ? Agree that it’s 15 seconds and walk away, and more convenient in that sense of labor.

However, the ability to be at 10% SOC on a road trip and get to 90-100% SOC in 10 minutes is simply not there in the united states yet for EV. This still limits me.

800V+ DC fast charging could get the time down more and more for people just traveling through; there needs to be more development of safe fast charging tech that maintains long cycle life, in my humble feeling. Thermal regulation is key. Tesla preconditions cell material to 130F to reduce internal resistance and optimize fast charge. Then after charging it’s helpful to reduce pack temperature again due to calendar effect aging.

For daily use, 3kW charging has been plenty for me to feel almost no need for visiting centralized charging station.
 
Primary issue in Australia is the massive difference in purchase price of EVs and ICEVs. It's nearly double the price for the equivalent car. Our state governments are also introducing road user taxes on EVs and PHEVs, charged on a $/km basis. ICEVs pay a fuel excise but that's a federal tax, not state.
 
svetz said:
Have you looked into PHEVs? If so, why the issue?
Click to expand...
The idea of PHEV appealed to me at first: EV with easy range restoration!

In practice, I haven't seen any options that satisfy all my weird preferences of substantial battery range, extreme efficiency and/or flexible fuel source. Active thermal management of battery pack, electric only drivetrain.

Pros: fast refueling/eventual recharging
Cons: there's still a fart tube

Any leads on a modern sedan or hatchback EV with 50-200 mile battery range and extremely high efficiency clean burning generator?

Even better if it has a highly concentrated recirculating combustion cycle or something that is regenerated by some sort of compacting mechanism, super dooper catalytic converter, and then it creates awful concentrated bricks of waste that can be dropped off through a convenient underside hatch. That way, there could be a high static pressure air intake for the generator, and then a regulated exhaust or something. I want extremely complete combustion, and negligible stinky exhaust. Can't find that sort of thing so far.

While moving, the onboard generator exhaust isn't so bad. However, parked, I would want it to be an absolute efficiency beast and quiet at that.

While we are talking about engineering dreams, I also want it to have a thermoelectric generation aspect to the onboard generator. Tie it in with the active thermal management system of coolant loop and/or refrigerant. Then it can heat the cabin with the generator waste heat and also generate power thermoelectrically in the process of creating the temperature gradient. Woohoo. Or something..
 
EVs are gaining in popularity quit fast in Quebec.

As of April 30, 2021, more than 102,380 light vehicles and 186 heavy electric vehicles were registered in Quebec.

Almost half of EVs in Canada are located in Quebec, or 45%, while the total Quebec vehicle fleet represents only 23% of the Canadian fleet.

The market share of EVs in new vehicle sales increased from 0.7% in 2015 to almost 7% in 2020.

Currently, Hydro has a distribution network that can meet the recharging demand of one million electric vehicles, i.e. the equivalent of 20% of Québec's vehicle fleet, regardless of the period of the day and year.

Hydro distribution network is designed to meet winter needs, particularly in exceptional peak situations, which last a few hours and during which we observe an increase in the energy needs of homes heated by electricity.

However, compared to these heating needs, the consumption associated with recharging an electric vehicle has a minimal effect on demand.
 
curiouscarbon said:
Any leads on a modern sedan or hatchback EV with 50-200 mile battery range and extremely high efficiency clean burning generator?
Click to expand...
There's a number of PHEVs that fit that bill. We have a Honda Clarity with good mpg (40ish I think). If you're in California you can get the fuel cell version, but H2 will be hard to find out of the state and probably inconvenient in the state.

H2 station map: https://cafcp.org/stations
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Steve_S
NEWS IEEE Spectum: The Top 10 EV Battery Makers CATL, LG Chem, and Panasonic control 69 percent of the market
Replies
5
Views
445
mrzed001
mrzed001
jdege
BMSes that can handle extended operations in a partial state of charge?
Replies
17
Views
954
dRdoS7
D
svetz
Small reduction in green house gases for $2 trillion? Are you kidding me?
Replies
8
Views
587
svetz
svetz
Back
Top