Connecting Sol-Ark 15K directly to utility meter.

[Leodoggie]

View attachment 160544

Don't think that is right.

Yes, on closer inspection you are right it’s a breaker for just for the load, it looked so big I assumed it was for the grid also, thanks for pointing that out.

 

[Leodoggie]

When I replaced my main panel, I pulled a main panel changeout permit (over the counter,easy peasy 5 minutes max)
set up a day for both PG&E and inspector to come out, drop power in the morning-give me a couple of hours to swap out panel then inspector came back,slapped a sticker on panel (with only main breaker and one circuit wired and PG&E rehooked me up,no cost

Excellent information exactly what I needed to know, thanks for the reply.

 

[Leodoggie]

you need 200A fused disconnect for sure, neither 200a hybrid is "service entrance rated"

Siemens 200 Amp 2-Pole 3-Wire General Duty Fused Outdoor GF224NR - The Home Depot

General Duty Safety Switches are intended for applications where reliable performance and continuity of service are needed. But where duty requirements are not severe and usual service conditions prevail.

www.homedepot.com

After that, you really need to pre-check this with your inspector because if they put 2 and 2 together they may require a manual bypass 200a switch.

GE 200 Amp 240-Volt Non-Fused Emergency Power Transfer Switch TC10324R - The Home Depot

Run your backup generator with the GE 200 Amp 240-Volt non-fused emergency power transfer switch. This emergency power transfer switch offers a NEMA type-3R metal enclosure for outdoor use. For use with

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you may need to feed that with a 200 A breaker box because you'll have to double-lug your "grid" side of the transfer switch.

Square D QO 200 Amp 2-Pole Outdoor Circuit Breaker Enclosure with QOM2200VH Breaker QOM2E2200NRB - The Home Depot

The Square D by Schneider Electric QO 200 Amp Outdoor Circuit Breaker Enclosure includes a two-pole QOM2 frame sizes circuit breakers 100-225 amp capacity for use as an exterior disconnect. This breaker

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Lot of boxes involved here. I talked to my local fire marshal about your EG4 batteries, I can’t stack six but can have two stacks of three, three feet apart per UL9540 and UL9540A, but he told to check that your batteries have those UL certificates, do they and where can I find them.

 

[Hedges]

Lot of good a 6-battery rack does.

EG4-LL Lithium Batteries Kit (V2) | 30.72kWh | 6 Server Rack Batteries With Pre-Assembled Enclosed Rack | With Door & Wheels | Busbar Covers

Signature Solar provides solar panels, off-grid solar systems, grid-tie, and hybrid systems. Quality solar inverters, bifacial solar panels, complete solar kits, solar batteries. Featuring brands such as EG4 Electronics with their solar battery, LifePower4 and EG4 LLifePower4 and EG4 LL

signaturesolar.com

3 x 5kWh = 15kWh, 6 x 5kWh = 30kWh

I guess that means the UL listed high voltage ESS BYD 32kWh battery + Sunny Boy Storage is also not legal?
(Unless listed as a bundle gets around that particular kWh limitation?)

BYD Battery-Box Premium HVL Battery System 12-32 kWh

Introducing the Battery-Box Premium HVL, a high-powered energy storage solution that provides emergency-backup and off-grid functionality. Its high-voltage series connection ensures maximum efficiency, and its patented modular plug design allows for flexibility and ease of use. The cobalt-free...

generationecostore.com

 

[BlueMarblePA]

Correct, the Sol-Ark 15K does not have a grid breaker. My installer mounted a 200 A breaker next to the 15K, as well as a fused disconnect next to the meter.

Does this mean, you had to add 200amp fused disconnect outdoors by the meter, and a 200amp breaker indoors near the Solark and 200amp two pole manual disconnect so as to bypass the Solark should the need arise?

 

[Oldphile]

Does this mean, you had to add 200amp fused disconnect outdoors by the meter, and a 200amp breaker indoors near the Solark and 200amp two pole manual disconnect so as to bypass the Solark should the need arise?

I wish I had a manual bypass, but I don't. If the 15K fails open, the standby generator will kick in. Not ideal, but better than nothing. Originally, the installer had a 200 A. breaker at the meter and one beside the inverter. The utility rejected the breaker as a disconnect.

 

[Solar Guppy]

I guess that means the UL listed high voltage ESS BYD 32kWh battery + Sunny Boy Storage is also not legal?
(Unless listed as a bundle gets around that particular kWh limitation?)

The BYD Batterybox HVL is UL9540 listed for Solis Hybrid S6, the older Batterybox HV is listed with the Solis 5G HVES which is what I have.

 

[DIYrich]

Lot of boxes involved here. I talked to my local fire marshal about your EG4 batteries, I can’t stack six but can have two stacks of three, three feet apart per UL9540 and UL9540A, but he told to check that your batteries have those UL certificates, do they and where can I find them.

EG4 LL do not seem to have a UL Listing mentioned. The Lifepower 4 has the certificate under "UL Certification"

EG4 LifePower4 Lithium Battery | 48V 100AH | Server Rack Battery | UL1973, UL9540A

EG4 (48V/100AH) LifePower4 Battery EG4 Lithium battery 51.2V (48V) 5.12kWh with 100AH internal BMS. Made of UL Listed Battery Cells. Off Grid Solar Batteries - Off Grid System - Solar Batteries for Home - Lithium Solar Batteries - Deep Cycle Solar Batteries - Power Reserve - Solar Panels Plus...

signaturesolar.com

 

[SuperShort]

Put the enphase into the Gen Input, and tell the sol-ark that you have AC PV on the gen port. Then in grid down, it can properly control the enphase (hopefully).

If you connect the enphase directly to the panel, sol-ark can't disconnect the enphase if they are producing more than you are consuming and can send to the battery. That will fry something.

I have a Deye 8K (basically a Sol-Ark) along with 10 Enphase micros connected directly to the same sub-panel box with line-taps to meter line input. It works perfectly fine with excess power in any direction. If there is excess Enphase that Deye doesn't need, it will push into the grid. I ran it that way with no batteries, 10KWh of batteries and now 23KWh of batteries.

 

[Leodoggie]

EG4 LL do not seem to have a UL Listing mentioned. The Lifepower 4 has the certificate under "UL Certification"

EG4 LifePower4 Lithium Battery | 48V 100AH | Server Rack Battery | UL1973, UL9540A

EG4 (48V/100AH) LifePower4 Battery EG4 Lithium battery 51.2V (48V) 5.12kWh with 100AH internal BMS. Made of UL Listed Battery Cells. Off Grid Solar Batteries - Off Grid System - Solar Batteries for Home - Lithium Solar Batteries - Deep Cycle Solar Batteries - Power Reserve - Solar Panels Plus...

signaturesolar.com

On another thread someone in S. Cal has paired Pytes server rack batteries with the Sol-Ark 15K and the pairing is UL 9540A certified, and he passed inspection.

 

[Leodoggie]

I have a Deye 8K (basically a Sol-Ark) along with 10 Enphase micros connected directly to the same sub-panel box with line-taps to meter line input. It works perfectly fine with excess power in any direction. If there is excess Enphase that Deye doesn't need, it will push into the grid. I ran it that way with no batteries, 10KWh of batteries and now 23KWh of batteries.

Good to know, thanks.

 

[rmacgurn]

This is how most people use the 15k, to utilize the 200a bypass.

Usually a trained electrician can pull the meter for you while you connect the power to the inverter. Its not something you have to call PG&E for.

Anyone tried this with 2 15KW inverters to take over the loads on a house with a 400amp main service panel?

 

[Lt.Dan]

Anyone tried this with 2 15KW inverters to take over the loads on a house with a 400amp main service panel?

I know my dads house he just finished has a 400a main panel, but it only has 2x 200a breakers that feed 2x 200a sub panels.

If yours is like this, then it should be pretty easy to put the 15k's in between each panel.

 

[rmacgurn]

I know my dads house he just finished has a 400a main panel, but it only has 2x 200a breakers that feed 2x 200a sub panels.

If yours is like this, then it should be pretty easy to put the 15k's in between each panel.

No its a single main panel rated at 400amps with a disconnect at the street. it then feeds to 100 amp sub panels located in a casita and other building.

 

[Danke]

There are different options out there. One way is to use distribution blocks. One line in from utility, then two lines out, one to each Sol-Ark. And two lines in from the Sol-Ark’s to another distribution block with one line out to your panel. Here is one example:

NSi Industries PDB, 1 Pole, Line 2 x 350 -6, Load 2 x 350 -6 Large Power Distribution Block NPDB -22-350-1 - The Home Depot

NSi Industries NPDB Series Power Distribution Blocks make multi-block sets of connectors a snap and reduces labor by eliminating end or connecting pieces. Compact, versatile blocks can stand alone or combine with other NPDB blocks due to their modular design. These blocks are constructed with...

www.homedepot.com

 

[rmacgurn]

There are different options out there. One way is to use distribution blocks. One line in from utility, then two lines out, one to each Sol-Ark. And two lines in from the Sol-Ark’s to another distribution box with one line out to your panel. Here is one example:

NSi Industries PDB, 1 Pole, Line 2 x 350 -6, Load 2 x 350 -6 Large Power Distribution Block NPDB -22-350-1 - The Home Depot

NSi Industries NPDB Series Power Distribution Blocks make multi-block sets of connectors a snap and reduces labor by eliminating end or connecting pieces. Compact, versatile blocks can stand alone or combine with other NPDB blocks due to their modular design. These blocks are constructed with...

www.homedepot.com

Splitting the inbound feed lines isn't my issue i know that is doable. its once teh 400 amps is disconnected from the main feed and split to say to 15kw AIO hybrid inverters is there a way i can then go back to that same 400 amp panel and feed it by doing the reverse (combining the two inverter 200amp outputs (when in bypass or 125amp running on pv or battery). adding more panels and removing all the breakers on the 400 amp panel is just too costly,

 

[Hedges]

You should be able to parallel two inverters, but 15kW/240V = 62.5A so 2x is 125A. Can drive 400A panel just no where near full load from inverter.

Feeding breaker panel from an inverter, I want a bypass switch to restore power if inverter is out of service.

Don't know if there are interlocks for your 400A panel. For my 200A or 225A Square-D QO panels I can install a generator interlock and backfeed a 125A breaker. There are now 200A branch circuit breakers but those are 4 pole with 2 poles paralleled, and handle is in wrong location for standard interlock to work.

Feeding grid through SolArk to backfeed, if you set up something like a transfer switch able to handle the current, it would depend on resistance to balance current through the two parallel paths. I found that QO270 breakers (which I used for the purpose) differed in resistance and current was imbalanced. Other brand and model breakers did better.

You should be able to combine power from paralleled inverters, but don't count on more than the (200A?) feed-through of a single inverter unless you've tested it. And even if they do divide fairly evenly, there may be an issue during switchover. Better I think to have each feeding one breaker panel.

Some other brands like Schneider control an external 200A contactor rather than the inverter relays operating in parallel.

 

[Danke]

Splitting the inbound feed lines isn't my issue i know that is doable. its once teh 400 amps is disconnected from the main feed and split to say to 15kw AIO hybrid inverters is there a way i can then go back to that same 400 amp panel and feed it by doing the reverse (combining the two inverter 200amp outputs (when in bypass or 125amp running on pv or battery). adding more panels and removing all the breakers on the 400 amp panel is just too costly,

I guess I don’t understand what you’re trying to do then.

For me, I’m using distribution blocks as they are a cheap solution. Sol-Ark uses AC Combiner Panels in their example:

 

[rmacgurn]

You should be able to parallel two inverters, but 15kW/240V = 62.5A so 2x is 125A. Can drive 400A panel just no where near full load from inverter.

Feeding breaker panel from an inverter, I want a bypass switch to restore power if inverter is out of service.

Don't know if there are interlocks for your 400A panel. For my 200A or 225A Square-D QO panels I can install a generator interlock and backfeed a 125A breaker. There are now 200A branch circuit breakers but those are 4 pole with 2 poles paralleled, and handle is in wrong location for standard interlock to work.

Feeding grid through SolArk to backfeed, if you set up something like a transfer switch able to handle the current, it would depend on resistance to balance current through the two parallel paths. I found that QO270 breakers (which I used for the purpose) differed in resistance and current was imbalanced. Other brand and model breakers did better.

You should be able to combine power from paralleled inverters, but don't count on more than the (200A?) feed-through of a single inverter unless you've tested it. And even if they do divide fairly evenly, there may be an issue during switchover. Better I think to have each feeding one breaker panel.

Some other brands like Schneider control an external 200A contactor rather than the inverter relays operating in parallel.

makes sense I did figure on a bypass switch in case if inverter issues. there is a street disconnect to the 400amp service. the max KW demand charge in last 12 months has been 13.7KW (i think that is an average over an hour. is how they take that so unless i put a recording meter on there for a week hard to know what the max is. many of the circuits are not used very often such as the casita (empty) and one wing of the house (5 ton A/C unit) the new areas also have high seer mini-splits and the pool pump was upgrade to VFD.

 

[rmacgurn]

I guess I don’t understand what you’re trying to do then.

For me, I’m using distribution blocks as they are a cheap solution. Sol-Ark uses AC Combiner Panels in their example:

View attachment 163832

exactly what i was thinking. i didn't know about the combiner panels as I have never done a house with 2 x 15kw inverters (or one this big). so in this drawing we can drop the generator and i guess we can share one large battery bank as planned (30-48KW) and seems the grid combiner panel is just the splitters and then the load combiner panel is the reverse splitter i was thinking of. so doing away with those combiner panels do we lose fuses or breaker to protect the inverters from overload or should they not just go to grid pass thru if the load exceeds their output max?