Do We Need a Control Group?

[Checkthisout]

I made no such claim. Nor would I make such a claim as it would be anecdotal evidence which we both agree is fairly useless in the scheme of things.

So why are you on here arguing when all you claim to be is a parrot regurgitating what the "experts" say?

Seriously, what's the point?

 

[Hedges]

The mask was to spreading it to others in case you had it. Even then it was a far from perfect solution.

A doctor spent all 2020, masked but unvaccinated, intubating Covid patients. And was not infected.
The mask prevents catching covid from others who have it. Works both ways.
Not perfect, but highly effective.

Remember R > 1, if we only had a vaccine just 50% effective, it would stop the spread?
N95 is at least 80% effective, and didn't take any development. Just ramping up production.

83% effective in this graphic. Which exceeds effectiveness of most of the vaccines, most of the time.

Effectiveness of Face Mask or Respirator Use in Indoor ...

This report describes face mask or respirator effectiveness in helping protect against COVID-19 infection.

www.cdc.gov

It might not stop the pandemic (always looking for an unmasked host), but would hold it at bay as long as needed.

 

[LeoThomson]

The vaccine never prevented infection at anytime.

It does according to the experts.

And ivermectin has never shown to have any effects on what?

It has never shown to have an effect on warts.

What are your comparing it to, in other words in the title of this thread, what is the control group?

There is a "control group" antivaccers volunteered not to get vaccinated and right now they are dying from covid at a far greater rate. I expect that as the survivors build up natural immunity they will also be fine.

 

[Checkthisout]

A doctor spent all 2020, masked but unvaccinated, intubating Covid patients. And was not infected.
The mask prevents catching covid from others who have it. Works both ways.
Not perfect, but highly effective.

Remember R > 1, if we only had a vaccine just 50% effective, it would stop the spread?
N95 is at least 80% effective, and didn't take any development. Just ramping up production.

83% effective in this graphic. Which exceeds effectiveness of most of the vaccines, most of the time.

Effectiveness of Face Mask or Respirator Use in Indoor ...

This report describes face mask or respirator effectiveness in helping protect against COVID-19 infection.

www.cdc.gov

It might not stop the pandemic (always looking for an unmasked host), but would hold it at bay as long as needed.

I disagree. You cannot "meter" infections.

The rate of infection is either climbing exponentially to infinity or decreasing exponentially to zero.

There are other things to keep in mind. When you're exposed to people who's bodies are fighting a virus, you get harmless particles of broken down virus that your body will make antibodies to.

It's far more complex than just the simple kindergarten method of keeping yourself isolated from the germs.

 

[Checkthisout]

It does according to the experts.


There is a "control group" antivaccers volunteered not to get vaccinated and right now they are dying from covid at a far greater rate. I expect that as the survivors build up natural immunity they will also be fine.

It's not really fair that people who caught the alpha strain of covid and died before the vaccine became available are added to the list of unvaccinated deaths.

It also doesn't make sense that you think the vaccine stops the spread even though you caught covid after getting the vaccine at least three or four times.

I'm not sure what to say to that.

 

[LeoThomson]

So why are you on here arguing when all you claim to be is a parrot regurgitating what the "experts" say?

Seriously, what's the point?

My expertese is no less than the antivaccers.

The point is that people are dying needlessly if they listen to the nonsense of the antivaccers and it deserves push back. The conspiracy theorists have argued for Nurenberg trials and the hanging of any one pushing the vaccines.

 

[Checkthisout]

My expertese is no less than the antivaccers.

The point is that people are dying needlessly if they listen to the nonsense of the antivaccers and it deserves push back. The conspiracy theorists have argued for Nurenberg trials and the hanging of any one pushing the vaccines.

I dunno. Vaccination rates are so high. This argument seems silly.

 

[bradbill]

Conspiracy theorist people like me have little, if any places to vent and talk about what we think and how we feel.

Please don't destroy another one.

LOL....fixed it for you.

Conspiracy theorists post all over the place...get real.

You think the 2020 election was stolen?

 

[Checkthisout]

LOL....fixed it for you.

You think the 2020 election was stolen?

Grown men don't type "LOL".

 

[bradbill]

Grown men don't type "LOL".

Only when fucking a-holes like you post stupid shit!

You and Bobby Bullshit make a nice couple of idiots

 

[bradbill]

 

[Checkthisout]

Only when fucking a-holes like you post stupid shit!

You and Bobby Bullshit make a nice couple of idiots

View attachment 133306

When you caught covid, was it after your first two jabs, your booster or second booster?

 

[Checkthisout]

The moderators don't monitor the chit chat threads ..... the trolls know that. Ignoring them works for me.

Yeah they are both getting boring.

You have Ralph or William (bradbill) just calling people names

And Leo who just regurgitates things his masters tell him

There are millions like this and politicians and these big companies know they can whip these people into a frenzy and extract billions from the government essentially on command.

Amazing stuff.

 

[LeoThomson]

And Leo who just regurgitates things his masters tell him

Masters? Where did that come from? I take advise from experts in their respective fields and I don't pretend to know better than them.

Antivaxxers are like tired toddlers throwing a tempertantrum because they disagree with their parents it is bed time.

 

[Checkthisout]

Masters? Where did that come from? I take advise from experts in their respective fields and I don't pretend to know better than them.

Antivaxxers are like tired toddlers throwing a tempertantrum because they disagree with their parents it is bed time.

I would agree you're compliant and non-rebelious and because of that, completely harmless and non-threatening.

I also agree you do exactly as you're told by the experts.

Even though you caught covid after multiple "vaccine" shots, you still believe the "experts" who said taking it will stop the spread.

 

[D71]

Masters? Where did that come from? I take advise from experts in their respective fields and I don't pretend to know better than them.

Antivaxxers are like tired toddlers throwing a tempertantrum because they disagree with their parents it is bed time.

When you vax it is permanent. No undoing it no protection either in more ways then 1

 

[Checkthisout]

When you vax it is permanent. No undoing it no protection either in more ways then 1

Why don't they just use whole dead virus for the vaccine instead of MRNA?

The vaccine enthusiasts can't answer that one.

 

[LeoThomson]

I would agree you're compliant and non-rebelious and because of that, completely harmless and non-threatening.

You use that as if it was an insult.

I also agree you do exactly as you're told by the experts.

I follow expert advise, the problems we have seen is politicians inserting themselves into the science arguments, I ignore the politicians.

Even though you caught covid after multiple "vaccine" shots, you still believe the "experts" who said taking it will stop the spread.

I believe hospitals are able to cope now, when I heard it had spread to wild animals I knew it was here to stay.

I also believe that mRNA vaccines will be made to measure for each individual in the future. I also have no problem with people who refuse those vaccines.

 

[LeoThomson]

When you vax it is permanent. No undoing it no protection either in more ways then 1

Try chemo.

 

[Checkthisout]

You use that as if it was an insult.


I follow expert advise, the problems we have seen is politicians inserting themselves into the science arguments, I ignore the politicians.


I believe hospitals are able to cope now, when I heard it had spread to wild animals I knew it was here to stay.

I also believe that mRNA vaccines will be made to measure for each individual in the future. I also have no problem with people who refuse those vaccines.

Leo, the hospitals were always able to cope.

That is why the huge hospital facility setup in a baseball field in Seattle was torn down after only seeing 3 patients.

It's why the hospital ships to New York by the feds never got used.

This is what I'm talking about. You believe something that never happened.

 

[Hedges]

Why don't they just use whole dead virus for the vaccine instead of MRNA?

The vaccine enthusiasts can't answer that one.

Manufacturing capacity.
mRNA method takes advantage of the existing manufacturing capacity of 8,000,000,000 homo sapiens.

Whole dead virus is of course the traditional method (that, and weakened live virus, such as oral polio.)

For one, manufacturing in vats is more efficient than drawing blood or other samples from thousands of monkeys, chickens, eggs, etc.
For another, those chickens turned out to have other pathogens that cause cancer, monkeys carried HIV, etc.

If mRNA could be successfully and safely used, it would be a miracle treatment. It does have many years use in veterinary vaccination.
But with massive deployment, all the differences in patients and administration expose issues. Whether side effects or ineffectiveness against variants.
Maybe against other pathogens which don't mutate rapidly if would be more effective.

I also believe that mRNA vaccines will be made to measure for each individual in the future. I also have no problem with people who refuse those vaccines.

Maybe, but it took a couple years to be made to measure for new variant. After starting initial version within 3 days of getting the genetic code over the phone.

 

[bradbill]

When you caught covid, was it after your first two jabs, your booster or second booster?

LOL....I believe after my first two shots....was very mild...thanks to the vaccine.

BTW...I have always given a rat's ass if people get vaccinated. I also don't care if people wear seat belts....it's everyone's right to be stupid.

 

[LeoThomson]

Leo, the hospitals were always able to cope.

You been living under a rock?

That is why the huge hospital facility setup in a baseball field in Seattle was torn down after only seeing 3 patients.

I thought we agreed on the validity of anecdotal evidence?

It's why the hospital ships to New York by the feds never got used.

The 1,000-Bed Comfort Was Supposed to Aid New York. It Has 20 Patients. (Published 2020)

“It’s a joke,” said a top hospital executive, whose facilities are packed with coronavirus patients.

www.nytimes.com

This is what I'm talking about. You believe something that never happened.

Nonsense.

Hospitals were screening patients and not even trying to put people on a ventilator if they thought another patient was more likely to benefit.

 

[Hedges]

Try chemo.

Was an early approach to treating HIV. (AZT)

Rationale for Anti-AIDS Chemotherapy Directed at HIV-1 Infected Dendritic Cells in Seropositive Individuals Prior to the Appearance of ARC and AIDS

An approach to anti-AIDS chemotherapy is presented from the point of view of treating seropositive individuals by eliminating the infected dendritic cells that are the in vivo target of HIV-1. Spec...

www.tandfonline.com

This paper mentions heterosexual population and treatment of females.
Of course, communication of HIV is less about sexual orientation and more about particular pathways to enter the body. That explains its greater spread in some cultures.

 

[bradbill]

You been living under a rock?


I thought we agreed on the validity of anecdotal evidence?

The 1,000-Bed Comfort Was Supposed to Aid New York. It Has 20 Patients. (Published 2020)

“It’s a joke,” said a top hospital executive, whose facilities are packed with coronavirus patients.

www.nytimes.com

Nonsense.

Hospitals were screening patients and not even trying to put people on a ventilator if they thought another patient was more likely to benefit.

My friend is the head of a medical group with 600 docs in San Diego. They were overflowed in their emergency room and had to convert large parts of their facilities into Covid wards.