EG4 6500 and refrigerator breaker issue

[Jsands]

Good day, this is my first post. I’m grateful for this forum, as I have learned a lot.

I will explain my set up and my issue.

Setup: I have two EG4 6500’s in split phase (2P1 and 2P2/180). These were ordered last fall so I believe they still have grounding nut. I have done the firmware update, but have not cracked the box yet to remove the nut.

I have six EG4 batteries hooked up.
I also have grid power connected.

I run the system on SBU priority.

I then run the AC output from the inverters to a 3 pole/double throw transfer switch (which allows me to bypass the solar/battery system altogether and just run on grid), before I feed my “solar subpanel” circuits.

During the day my PV array and the batteries can run everything without issue. When the sun goes down and I lose PV input the batteries do all the work.

My issue: every night, when the batteries run low and the grid kicks in to support with power and charge the batteries, my refrigerator breaker blows. It is only this breaker. Nothing else has any issues. During the day when I’m running on solar/battery it works fine.

Signature solar thought maybe I have a neutral/ground bonding issue.

question- anyone else had this problem?

Should I remove grounding nuts from one or both 6500’s?

Perhaps I have a neutral/ground issue in my 3pole/double throw transfer switch?

Grateful for any insight or ideas.

 

[Mattb4]

Is your refrigerator breaker a GFCI?

 

[BentleyJ]

The EG4 6500 is an off-grid inverter so the transition from battery to grid is OPEN transfer meaning there is a few milliseconds without power.
Is the refrigerator breaker a GFI type? If not its probably not a N-G bond issue.
Sounds more like the refrigerator may be momentarily drawing too much current and/or the breaker is weak.
I would check current draw on the refrigerator with a clamp meter and probably change the breaker. They don't cost that much.

 

[Jsands]

Is your refrigerator breaker a GFCI?

It’s one of those new (code required) arc fault breakers. It may be on my kitchen GFCI, but I’m pretty sure it has its own dedicated circuit as it’s the only thing on this breaker.

 

[Jsands]

The EG4 6500 is an off-grid inverter so the transition from battery to grid is OPEN transfer meaning there is a few milliseconds without power.
Is the refrigerator breaker a GFI type? If not its probably not a N-G bond issue.
Sounds more like the refrigerator may be momentarily drawing too much current and/or the breaker is weak.
I would check current draw on the refrigerator with a clamp meter and probably change the breaker. They don't cost that much.

Thank you. The breaker is one of those new arc fault (code required) breakers. I wonder if I could swap it out for new, traditional breaker.

 

[BentleyJ]

I suppose in a public forum its not advisable to recommend someone replace a breaker with one that isn't code compliant but I know what I would do if it was my frozen and refrigerated items that were at risk due to a ridiculous breaker. I can understand using ARC fault in bedrooms but not the kitchen with all those motorized appliances.

 

[EastTexCowboy]

It’s one of those new (code required) arc fault breakers. It may be on my kitchen GFCI, but I’m pretty sure it has its own dedicated circuit as it’s the only thing on this breaker.

It should be on it's own circuit, yes. I have a similar setup with two LV6548s, three pole transfer switch, etc. But I do have one screw removed in one of the inverters. I agree with @BentleyJ on maybe just swapping out the breaker if you want to rule that out. There's a lot of opinions on removing the grounding screw. It works on mine is all I can say. But I never tried it with both screws installed so I don't have a true comparison.

 

[Mattb4]

It’s one of those new (code required) arc fault breakers. It may be on my kitchen GFCI, but I’m pretty sure it has its own dedicated circuit as it’s the only thing on this breaker.

Not familiar with arc fault AC breakers. I know that I am no fan of the GFCI outlets.

 

[Adam De Lay]

If you're on the newest firmware (with an option 42) you don't need to open the inverter anymore and remove the ground screw. You just need to properly select the value for option 42 depending on your needs. Since you have AC In, I would believe you would want that value to be Enabled (which would disable the g/n bond relay and create a common neutral).

I don't have an arc-fault breaker on my fridge, and I know I haven't had any issues switching between battery/grid power from that standpoint. Might be worth just testing a standard breaker even if just to rule that out.

Edit: Or you could try plugging the fridge into another outlet that doesn't have that special breaker...again, just to test.

 

[Jsands]

If you're on the newest firmware (with an option 42) you don't need to open the inverter anymore and remove the ground screw. You just need to properly select the value for option 42 depending on your needs. Since you have AC In, I would believe you would want that value to be Enabled (which would disable the g/n bond relay and create a common neutral).

I don't have an arc-fault breaker on my fridge, and I know I haven't had any issues switching between battery/grid power from that standpoint. Might be worth just testing a standard breaker even if just to rule that out.

Thanks!

 

[EastTexCowboy]

I suppose in a public forum its not advisable to recommend someone replace a breaker with one that isn't code compliant but I know what I would do if it was my frozen and refrigerated items that were at risk due to a ridiculous breaker. I can understand using ARC fault in bedrooms but not the kitchen with all those motorized appliances.

No code out here to apply out here in the country where we are. When I moved circuits to the new subpanel none of them got arc fault breakers. All the GFCI circuits have the GFCI outlets so I'm good there. I understand the reasoning on them, I just think it's overkill. When my electrician looked at my setup and gave me two thumbs up he was of the same opinion. Doesn't make it right, I know, but that's how I did it.

 

[EastTexCowboy]

Not familiar with arc fault AC breakers. I know that I am no fan of the GFCI outlets.

They can be a pain in the ass. I didn't remove any of mine and I haven't had any issues but I pretty much agree. Here's an alternative to GFCI - don't lay the plugged in hair dryer on the edge of the tub when you're taking a bath. Yeah, I know, I know - there's some valid reasons for them and they have undoubtedly saved some lives. I'm just old and set in my ways. ?

 

[timselectric]

When a compressor (like the one in your refrigerator) losses power. It needs a little time for the pressure to reduce. Before it can start up again. It could be that the compressor is overloading the breaker trying to restart under high pressure. I would first try replacing the breaker. It doesn't sound like an arc fault or N/G bond issue. But I also agree that arc fault breakers can be annoying.

 

[Zwy]

When a compressor (like the one in your refrigerator) losses power. It needs a little time for the pressure to reduce. Before it can start up again. It could be that the compressor is overloading the breaker trying to restart under high pressure. I would first try replacing the breaker. It doesn't sound like an arc fault or N/G bond issue. But I also agree that arc fault breakers can be annoying.

This was to be my response.

Fridge compressor is running, power switches over, the compressor is restarting under load. Load is high, trips the breaker.

Of course the first thing I would do is if the fridge has a condensing coil I'd clean it. If it continued, I'd replace breaker. I'd also look at what AWG wire is in the circuit. If 14AWG, I'd probably replace with 12AWG and install a 20A breaker.

 

[Quattrohead]

This was to be my response.

Fridge compressor is running, power switches over, the compressor is restarting under load. Load is high, trips the breaker.

Of course the first thing I would do is if the fridge has a condensing coil I'd clean it. If it continued, I'd replace breaker. I'd also look at what AWG wire is in the circuit. If 14AWG, I'd probably replace with 12AWG and install a 20A breaker.

Yeah fridges should not be on gfi etc breakers. As soon as I get my CO the refrigerator circuits are getting a simple circuit breaker.

 

[Jsands]

This was to be my response.

Fridge compressor is running, power switches over, the compressor is restarting under load. Load is high, trips the breaker.

Of course the first thing I would do is if the fridge has a condensing coil I'd clean it. If it continued, I'd replace breaker. I'd also look at what AWG wire is in the circuit. If 14AWG, I'd probably replace with 12AWG and install a 20A breaker.

Thank you! It’s brand new construction and it’s a brand new refrigerator. It’s on a 20 amp breaker already. I think I’m gonna swap out the breaker and see if that does the trick.

 

[EastTexCowboy]

Yeah fridges should not be on gfi etc breakers. As soon as I get my CO the refrigerator circuits are getting a simple circuit breaker.

Mine was on an arc fault breaker. No longer.

 

[Skypower]

Probably the most common new home move in problem. Refrigerator tripping the AFCI. A quality GFI will likely be able cope with it but people are just replacing the breaker with a standard one. Unintended consequences. Don’t have to be off grid to have problems with those things.

 

[Shiv3]

Do you know what type of compressor your refrigerator has, if inveter style, the problem is most likely in the electrical line, if standard unit what does the nameplate say as far as LRA of the compressor, and RLA say.

 

[Jsands]

Do you know what type of compressor your refrigerator has, if inveter style, the problem is most likely in the electrical line, if standard unit what does the nameplate say as far as LRA of the compressor, and RLA say.

Good input. I don’t know anything about compressors, and don’t know what LRA or RLA means. I’ll check. It’s a Viking brand refrigerator.