EG4 LL Battery Discharging and Charging Slower Than The Rest

[robby]

Has anyone just flat asked Signature Solar brass if these EG4’s are being sold with B cells?

What do you think the reply will be
To be fair I am sure all of the companies will tell you Grade A. The question is who is lying.

My feeling is that price is the real tip off. You got a whole bunch of companies like Fortress, Simpliphi, BYD, Discovery, Enphase and others, selling batteries at 2-3 times the price of the EG4, SOK, Jakiper and others. These more expensive companies don't seem to be trying to compete on price. They also all have certifications of compliance and are used by big companies for installations.

 

[robby]

Do you know if eflex batteries are made in the US, or are they just rebrands of chinese products?

They are made in China by a factory that is run by Fortress USA. They are not rebranded cells and the build quality inside is not like anything you have seen on Wills videos. It's much much better. China supplies just about all LifePO4 batteries, they have like 98% of the worlds production. They make great batteries, it's just that you need to find the new grade A cells and not be buying the rejects or the cells that have been used for years and refurbished.

 

[Rocksnsalt]

What do you think the reply will be
To be fair I am sure all of the companies will tell you Grade A. The question is who is lying.

My feeling is that price is the real tip off. You got a whole bunch of companies like Fortress, Simpliphi, BYD, Discovery, Enphase and others, selling batteries at 2-3 times the price of the EG4, SOK, Jakiper and others. These more expensive companies don't seem to be trying to compete on price. They also all have certifications of compliance and are used by big companies for installations.

Oh I get that they may give a less than honest answer.
Which is why I’m suggesting someone with contacts ask the bigwigs there.
Then if it turns out they’re lying, well then we know who not to do business with.
I’ve been eyeing the EG4’s for a while but am rethinking that now.
And I do realize Sig Solar is just a reseller, and if there is an issue it is with the manufacturer in China.

 

[houseofancients]

How so?
He is a dealer for several brands of batteries, Inverters and Panels and he goes to many of the conferences.
I am sure he has heard what the price of new Grade A cells are.

exactly, so he has marshmellows in the fire, so to speak..

you have seen in many teardowns that both jakiper and gyll use grade a batteries.
the fact tha they have a slightly higher ristance , doesnt mean they are grade b, just means they are most probably a different type of cell/poutch or manufactorer ( gafeng in both cases of jakiper and gyll).

it also means that it would have been a good idea on your part to test the internal resistance , before assuming that just because they may be the same chem, they would have the same resistance.

 

[robby]

exactly, so he has marshmellows in the fire, so to speak..

you have seen in many teardowns that both jakiper and gyll use grade a batteries.
the fact tha they have a slightly higher ristance , doesnt mean they are grade b, just means they are most probably a different type of cell/poutch or manufactorer ( gafeng in both cases of jakiper and gyll).

it also means that it would have been a good idea on your part to test the internal resistance , before assuming that just because they may be the same chem, they would have the same resistance.

Your missing out on the part that he bough a bunch of EG4 batteries. He has no stake in this A vs B thing, he sells at any price point the customer wants. He has another 40 EG4 48V batteries on order so I assume he is happy with the money he is making on them but he also points out at the same time that they are not Grade A cells given the price.

There is no need for me to test the ESR on the batteries. The BMS in the EG4 is a Seplos BMS with Mosfets doing the switching. The eFlex's use an EV Automotive 250 Amp Relay for the switching. That is going to be the major resistance factor right there.

My B cell comment is not based on just ESR but mainly on the fact that the cells get all out of balance during charging with some going up to 3.87V and I am not the only one having that issue.

 

[robby]

Oh I get that they may give a less than honest answer.
Which is why I’m suggesting someone with contacts ask the bigwigs there.
Then if it turns out they’re lying, well then we know who not to do business with.
I’ve been eyeing the EG4’s for a while but am rethinking that now.
And I do realize Sig Solar is just a reseller, and if there is an issue it is with the manufacturer in China.

If I could do it all over again I would get the SOK batteries that Will reviewed. Same BMS and display and I am pretty sure the batteries are B Grade also but in the SOK you can pull everything apart and change bad cells. If mine had been an SOK I would have already had made phone calls to them to get three replacement cells under warranty. If that did not work out I would have just bought them. With the EG4 the cells are welded in place.

 

[houseofancients]

Your missing out on the part that he bough a bunch of EG4 batteries. He has no stake in this A vs B thing, he sells at any price point the customer wants. He has another 40 EG4 48V batteries on order so I assume he is happy with the money he is making on them but he also points out at the same time that they are not Grade A cells given the price.

There is no need for me to test the ESR on the batteries. The BMS in the EG4 is a Seplos BMS with Mosfets doing the switching. The eFlex's use an EV Automotive 250 Amp Relay for the switching. That is going to be the major resistance factor right there.

My B cell comment is not based on just ESR but mainly on the fact that the cells get all out of balance during charging with some going up to 3.87V and I am not the only one having that issue.

it is not a seplos bms, i may look similar, but is not the same

 

[SignatureSolarJames]

These are contract manufactured in Asia, all cells are binned according to resistance and grade A quality (not A-)

Frankly by the time you are mixing brands you really are analyzing the interplay of different BMS firmware programs like fortress vs us, we have seen others that the scenario is reversed, not really a commentary on the cells.

Our core cell is the UL-Listed Ganfeng 100ah 3.2v 7000 cycle model, you can pop the cover and look it up.

As far as laser weld goes, we moved away from bolts and paid more for laser weld because with bolts they are not rated for vibratory environments (like RVs) and the long term reliability of connections could change with the right environments of expansion/contraction. Laser weld basically makes sure that the resistance is a solid number that we can bank on for our warranty responsibility purposes and therefore worth the investment.

 

[SignatureSolarJames]

Oh I get that they may give a less than honest answer.
Which is why I’m suggesting someone with contacts ask the bigwigs there.
Then if it turns out they’re lying, well then we know who not to do business with.
I’ve been eyeing the EG4’s for a while but am rethinking that now.
And I do realize Sig Solar is just a reseller, and if there is an issue it is with the manufacturer in China.

we are on the hook for issues so if you have concerns refer them to us

 

[robby]

it is not a seplos bms, i may look similar, but is not the same

Everyone including Will is saying it's Seplos??

 

[houseofancients]

These are contract manufactured in Asia, all cells are binned according to resistance and grade A quality (not A-)

Frankly by the time you are mixing brands you really are analyzing the interplay of different BMS firmware programs like fortress vs us, we have seen others that the scenario is reversed, not really a commentary on the cells.

Our core cell is the UL-Listed Ganfeng 100ah 3.2v 7000 cycle model, you can pop the cover and look it up.

As far as laser weld goes, we moved away from bolts and paid more for laser weld because with bolts they are not rated for vibratory environments (like RVs) and the long term reliability of connections could change with the right environments of expansion/contraction. Laser weld basically makes sure that the resistance is a solid number that we can bank on for our warranty responsibility purposes and therefore worth the investment.

thank you for confirming

 

[houseofancients]

Everyone including Will is saying it's Seplos??

will corrected that, as did signature solar

 

[robby]

we are on the hook for issues so if you have concerns refer them to us

Before I start a process going let me ask the most important question. If i send it back who pays the Shipping?

 

[Solar Guy Richard]

What do you think the reply will be
To be fair I am sure all of the companies will tell you Grade A. The question is who is lying.

My feeling is that price is the real tip off. You got a whole bunch of companies like Fortress, Simpliphi, BYD, Discovery, Enphase and others, selling batteries at 2-3 times the price of the EG4, SOK, Jakiper and others. These more expensive companies don't seem to be trying to compete on price. They also all have certifications of compliance and are used by big companies for installations.

Our battery cells are actually UL Listed specifically, we are working on a full UL listed battery. Our cells are Tier One, A+++. We personally back the warranty on these units and because of this, we would only be hurting ourselves if we weren't using the highest of quality products to produce them.

 

[robby]

will corrected that, as did signature solar

Where is that stated by Will? Just 2 days ago the answer was Seplos.

 

[Rocksnsalt]

Our battery cells are actually UL Listed specifically, we are working on a full UL listed battery. Our cells are Tier One, A+++. We personally back the warranty on these units and because of this, we would only be hurting ourselves if we weren't using the highest of quality products to produce them.

Ok so you’re saying the EG4’s are all A+++ grade, no B grade, right?

 

[SignatureSolarJames]

Ok so you’re saying the EG4’s are all A+++ grade, no B grade, right?

100% and with our SOH monitoring over the 3 years of development they have been aligned with the 7000cycles rating. we are a Texas company with over 50 people working here, the warranty we provided is a real responsibility on our end, this is not a "collapsing shell scheme" from an international importer with warranty.

 

[robby]

Before I start a process going let me ask the most important question. If i send it back who pays the Shipping?

?????

 

[Solar Guy Richard]

Ok so you’re saying the EG4’s are all A+++ grade, no B grade, right?

100% correct.

 

[SignatureSolarJames]

Before I start a process going let me ask the most important question. If i send it back who pays the Shipping?

Well, good question! (with SOK you are on the hook ) https://www.us.sokbattery.com/warranty

We ultimately handle return shipping costs but may need terminal drop off by the customer.
The shipping return of the battery would occur if you can demonstrate a failed SOH of your battery to store the advertised kwh
Feel free to send data on your kwh capacity.

 

[Solar Guy Richard]

Before I start a process going let me ask the most important question. If i send it back who pays the Shipping?

Reach out to our tech support team. They will happily assist you in getting the required documentation and we will cover the charges if there is something wrong. When it comes to a battery there are a few things our RMA team will ask you to do to prepare it for proper shipping, and we would send you a return label. PM me and I'll have tech support reach out.

 

[robby]

Well, good question! (with SOK you are on the hook ) https://www.us.sokbattery.com/warranty

We ultimately handle return shipping costs but may need terminal drop off by the customer.
The shipping return of the battery would occur if you can demonstrate a failed SOH of your battery to store the advertised kwh
Feel free to send data on your kwh capacity.

I am not having a capacity issue, what I am seeing is very high voltages on three of the cells that make me think something is wrong with them.
If your saying 3.87V on a cell during charging is fine then I am not going to have a case.

 

[SignatureSolarJames]

I am not having a capacity issue, what I am seeing is very high voltages on three of the cells that make me think something is wrong with them.
If your saying 3.87V on a cell during charging is fine then I am not going to have a case.

the Ganfeng has a high ramp on the end but the BMS was programmed in direct cooperation with Ganfeng

We are pretty open about this info because when the chips are down we are the hardest working company in solar and we look at competition as a way for the end user to win overall.

if you buy a 5.1kwh battery you get a 5.1kwh battery and a warranty for 10 years on the EG4LL or 5 on the LIFEPOWER4

 

[Rocksnsalt]

the Ganfeng has a high ramp on the end but the BMS was programmed in direct cooperation with Ganfeng

We are pretty open about this info because when the chips are down we are the hardest working company in solar and we look at competition as a way for the end user to win overall.

if you buy a 5.1kwh battery you get a 5.1kwh battery and a warranty for 10 years on the EG4LL or 5 on the LIFEPOWER4

Re 10 yr warranty on LL, says 5 years in 2 places on the attached page:
And are these suitable for a vibration environment as in Sprinter van life?
It would be sitting on an insulated plywood floor or on a shelf in a 80/20 framed cabinet, but my rig is a 4x4 and I do go off road in it. Not baja 1000 stuff just crawling over rough areas etc.

 

[Solar Guy Richard]

Re 10 yr warranty on LL, says 5 years in 2 places on the attached page:
And are these suitable for a vibration environment as in Sprinter van life?
It would be sitting on an insulated plywood floor or on a shelf in a 80/20 framed cabinet, but my rig is a 4x4 and I do go off road in it. Not baja 1000 stuff just crawling over rough areas etc.

The cells are welded to prevent issues with vibration, but don’t go too crazy!