Failed Inspection - need some advice and guidance for NEC 690 infractions.

[Zapper77]

For my installation, it is an "out-building" located 10 feet from my home for use as a solar power shed. I would agree with @zanydroid that the code says "building". I wouldn't go too far in the weeds and try and draw your own conclusion as to what that means. If the "building" can catch fire, it very likely needs to be enclosed in metal and protected as such. My limited experience tells me that there really isn't any room for your definition of this or that. With the use of an inexpensive tube / pipe cutter, it really is quite an easy installation. The key is to do it right the FIRST time

My location applys different rules to non-residential (detatched) accessory buildings. Just asked for clarification.

 

[timselectric]

While non inhabitant buildings have more lax requirements. I tend to do everything the same, everywhere. Especially when safety is involved.

 

[Pilot Bob]

Put your PV wires in EMT inside the building.


I assume they are talking about Raceways, boxes you have things in must have a ground lug with ground wire back to main grounding source.


No idea unless it means covered.

I’m sure some of the electricians on here can tell you more.

Use something like this to cover and protect the wiring.

 

[Quattrohead]

DC must be in a metal conduit.

 

[timselectric]

View attachment 176724View attachment 176724Use something like this to cover and protect the wiring.

Nope

 

[Ampster]

Use something like this to cover and protect the wiring.

That is okay for autos but not code for this purpose. As mentioned upthread, DC must be in metal conduit.

 

[robbob2112]

Unfortunately I didn't read through all 9 pages to see where this has all gone, but to give you some added empathy I also had to go through some of the steps you're having to do because of inspection, all the while being jealous of the other installs where some of the things I feel give no added safety in the first place could be skipped.

View attachment 161930

My local inspector also made me do some things that I'm 80% weren't needed in the latest version of code but weren't worth me fighting, such as using rigid conduit on my underground sections and not allowing me to run my 48V cables inside the raceway with my AC runs, but still requiring it to be in metallic. That liquid tight is metallic. But yes 100% of my high voltages lines are in metal 100% of the time after leaving the array.

I'd love to see pictures inside those showing the connections and grounds and runs and connections. That looks slick and exceptionally neat. When I do mine I want it to look that neat. Can you link to the server cabinet you chose?

 

[tialiden]

It needs to be an approved UL9540 pair of inverter and battery combination. The battery positioning and protection within the structure is also prescribed in NEC or international residential code as adopted by your state (I think the latter). So that might be another rude awakening if inspector finds deviation from those rules.

Unfortunately it is possible that your AHJ only did a cursory plan check.

UL9540A is not the same as UL9540 and gives you no points for that.

UL1973 is a strict subset of UL9540 and code says you need UL9540

was just watching this video... about that very UL9540A and UL9540 and Energy (Battery) Storage Systems https://www.ul.com/resources/energy-storage-systems-what-you-need-know-about-ul-9540-and-9540a

 

[zanydroid]

was just watching this video... about that very UL9540A and UL9540 and Energy (Battery) Storage Systems https://www.ul.com/resources/energy-storage-systems-what-you-need-know-about-ul-9540-and-9540a

Nice. That one is 3 years old though so there might be some minor updates.

 

[Rusty959]

I'd love to see pictures inside those showing the connections and grounds and runs and connections. That looks slick and exceptionally neat. When I do mine I want it to look that neat. Can you link to the server cabinet you chose?

Unfortunately I was still finishing all this up after my wife's due date so I did a terrible job of taking pictures. Here's a couple. Idk why but I have almost none of the copper bus bars which live under the grey covers. It's just some bar I got off mcmaster that I drilled and tapped to take the 6awg that comes with the EG4 batteries.
The 4/0 positive attaches at the bottom of the left bus bar, negative attaches at the top of the right. Fuse box before the wire leaves the cabinet. If I ever add enough batteries so the sum of the breakers on them exceed the capacity of the wire I'll move it closer to the bus bar. I have a 6awg grounding the entire cabinet.
Brackets to hold the batteries is just some angle steel.

The cabinet itself was an old one I got for free from my job. In hindsight, I spent so much time and effort and money converting this one I kinda wish I just got the pre-made EG4 one, you can usually get it for free more or less.

 

[tialiden]

In regards to 3), I had to do that. Canadian code, but similar.

New item by Derek Jacoby

photos.app.goo.gl

So, I'm wondering, what is it specifically that keeps something from being run from the raceway to the bottom cabinet of the inverter (e.g. FMC) ? What if the inverter has fans along bottom right where the 48vdc comes through?

 

[tialiden]

My inspector has required me to put in 3 total ground rods. 1 at the array and 2 at the power shed at least 6 ft apart. I'm pretty good at pounding in ground rods at this point. Instead of purchasing or renting at large hammer drill, I've just been using a t-post hammer and it works perfectly fine in my cases. I already had the t-post hammer for all of the the fencing I have to install anyways.

Just so you know, now he's got you setup for perfect Electromagnetic pulse burst during a High current event like lightning strike anywhere nearby. Sure to send that pulse right through all the panels and equipment. :/

and

for reference.

 

[tialiden]

@cs1234 Overkill, yes, but not at all dangerous. It's all about creating the path of least resistance.

Electricity unlike all the lies we've been told about it, does NOT follow the path to least resistance. That was one of the lessons Mike Holt had to beat out of my programmed head.

 

[Hedges]

Least impedance, then, for AC?
(which often means closest to other conductor in the current loop.)

 

[kennyb]

I've been meaning to post this. It's what is acceptable in the Canadian code for bonding and grounding. Taken from the appendix of the 2021 cec.

 

[derekja]

So, I'm wondering, what is it specifically that keeps something from being run from the raceway to the bottom cabinet of the inverter (e.g. FMC) ? What if the inverter has fans along bottom right where the 48vdc comes through?

Oh, I suspect that would be fine. In my case all fans were back away from that bottom raceway so it made most sense to just attach directly to it.

 

[michael d]

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30A, 600V AC/DC, outdoor. This one is $200

you have to study the safety disconnect switches from squared D to find the ones that are rated for DC....
I have bought several used in excellent condition for a fraction of the new retail price, but you have to look at and read all the labels etc....
some of these are huge, some are only indoor-rated and some are outdoor-rated etc..
but the best are outdoor rated and if you get the larger ones say 100 amp for less than 100 bucks you have definitely scored a bargain>>> if it is DC rated for 600 volts DC... and they are in good functional condition...
I like square D and square D QO products....


I bought this Square d HU363 100 Amp safety disconnect switch for 91 dollars including tax and delivery. It is rated for 250 volts DC.


For DC you can use the inside and outside poles of the switching mechanism for 250-volts DC.... this was rated for indoor use but I will use it indoors as a manual disconnect....
I believe that using only the inside and outside poles gives a little more separation for the DC wires to aid arc flash safety issues.... as a lot of these switches have that direction on their labels when used for DC...
large and somewhat of an overkill but superior to the plastic garbage out there...IMHO

I am always leery of el-cheapo Chinese breakers and disconnects....so I avoid them as much as possible

 

[garetwo]

I've already sent the inspector pictures of what I think needs to be replaced, but he will not respond to those emails. I think that falls into the "suggestion" category. This is absolutely like pulling teeth when trying to get information from the inspector. I don't know if they have a god complex, but it seems it would be beneficial to the homeowner (me) to just tell it like it is rather than being super vague. I just want to know what I need to do and do it safely. This NEC code stuff isn't that easy to follow. I'm a software engineer and I cannot imagine throwing "hints" of my trade to an electrician. I've asked him to share another point to point that did pass inspection, but so far it's just crickets on that. I cannot imagine why the state wouldn't just post this information as help to the DIY'er. It's not like it's proprietary information.

If the inspector suggests something and there is an issue later, he has become the now irresponsible designer. If you can develop a clear plan of action on paper and perhaps just ask, "will this pass inspection?" before actually doing it and possibly failing, maybe you will get an answer. This is one of the most educational threads I have read. I am sorry that your errors have led to it, if I lived there I would help you out! I would trade for some software engineering

 

[garetwo]

Of course there is the "move to Texas" option ... heck - as long as you are not in a city or a major town the only advice the inspector will ever give you - over the phone because they aren't coming out - is "don't do anything stupid to get yourself or someone else killed -- and don't start a fire" ... and when your finish if you have time - take a picture and send it to me ... LOL

I want to move

 

[garetwo]

That simple metal box better have the proper UL stamps on it!

I believe, even if independent parts are UL listed, the combination of them must also meet UL. The ensuing disconnect/switch would not be a UL listed assembly. Is this incorrect?