Feast or Famine, The off grid solar dilemma.

[JeepHammer]

once had over a 100 Kwh of tesla model s batteries in my home.
would wake up sweating , no thank you sir....

again do what ever you want, but there have been far and far to many cases of home fires and people losing everything , just to cheap out a save a few buck, not being aware of the actual chemistry and risks involved..

LIPO shouldnt be in ones home, and not even near it for that matter

I've still got 4 packs. They're in an airtight steel enclosure encased in rockwool in a tiny outbuilding away from everything. The simpbms helps with my worries, but I still don't like it. If it goes up it'll suck, but at least it won't burn everything else down with it.

Retiring them at the end of this season.

I have a redundant solar field. Panel strings, charge controller, battey/batteries at the ends of the solar strings connected to a DC Buss (DC coupled).

With the more volatile chemestries out away from shops or homes, an insulated box with minor heat is all that's needed to be more than 'Reasonably Safe' with any chemestry.

I'm perfectly aware that a lot of city dwellers don't have room for ground mount panels, and I'm aware DIY batteries wouldn't pass city code inspections even if they were off grid, city dwellers being the least likely to be off grid...

I have no such restrictions, and being off grid I savaged what I could afford, and built within the education base I have.
It's not 'Code', it's not 'Perfect, it's not 'Pretty'...
However it is functional, redundant, and it's mostly 'Safe', can fail right where it's at and won't damage anything else, like burn the house or business down.
30 years of experimentation and education as I find it.

I can't say it's fool proof, the 'Great Coyote Fire' of 2015 proves there are some things that CAN happen. A coyote managed to get into a pouch cell battery box, the fire was mostly contained to the coyote, but there you have it. How a coyote got the lid off the battery box is still a mystery...

Scorched a post, damaged a panel, smoked the battery/box/charge controllers, but damage was limited to that ONE box/panel, more or less.

Since weight/space really isn't an issue for me, refractory cement (like in fire safes) and rock wool in common metal cabinets work just fine for me.

In 30 years I've used everything from military surplus aluminum or steel cabinets, to refrigerators to the big office copier cabinets, it really doesn't matter where the cabinet comes from...

Indoors it's LiFePO4 batteries as fast as zi can find/build them. With a big, long DC Buss they act more like capacitors than batteries internally in the system...
Sudden Big Amp draws in the shop especially, so it's the best fit for the application.

I'm sure if I had neighbors, they would complain the cabinets 'Didn't Match' or didn't have designer labels...
When I started 30 years ago, there weren't any 'Designer Labels', and like an old tractor the paint has faded on, they still get the job done just fine.

With DIY, it's about how it works, not what the neighbors think is 'Cute' or 'Expensive/Designer'.

 

[houseofancients]

.

I'm sure if I had neighbors, they would complain the cabinets 'Didn't Match' or didn't have designer labels...
When I started 30 years ago, there weren't any 'Designer Labels', and like an old tractor the paint

With DIY, it's about how it works, not what the neighbors think is 'Cute' or 'Expensive/Designer'.

1. i am not a city dweller
2. my neighbours are cows and i am sure they dont care

3. typically for a diy'er , you are forgetting the most important ... safety.

but hey, it is your party, do what you like/want, just make sure you're not found in the "up in smoke" topics

 

[timselectric]

That's a lot of words to say "I agree ".
But I agree. lol

 

[JeepHammer]

1. i am not a city dweller
2. my neighbours are cows and i am sure they dont care

3. typically for a diy'er , you are forgetting the most important ... safety.

but hey, it is your party, do what you like/want, just make sure you're not found in the "up in smoke" topics

To ASS.U.ME (ass of U & me)

In fact the coyote proved I took measures to keep things safe even when the unexpected happens.

Fuses, breakers, battery cut off from the Buss, fire control all did their jobs.
No one could have reasonably expected a coyote could open 4 toggle latches, then get the lid open, short himself across the primary battery connections a human hand couldn't get behind the short/no touch protections...

3. typically for a diy'er , you are forgetting the most important ... safety.

Since you have such disrespect for DIY types, why exactly are you on a DIY forum?

I have built all kinds of insustral machines for 30 years, 3 phase electrical equipment on down, every design passes certified electrical engineer inspection, usually several times before these machines are installed...

What EXACTLY makes *YOU* think I don't strictly follow simple 48 VDC wiring safety rules?

Maybe you should keep *Assumptions* to yourself since you can't be civil...

 

[houseofancients]

To ASS.U.ME (ass of U & me)

In fact the coyote proved I took measures to keep things safe even when the unexpected happens.

Fuses, breakers, battery cut off from the Buss, fire control all did their jobs.
No one could have reasonably expected a coyote could open 4 toggle latches, then get the lid open, short himself across the primary battery connections a human hand couldn't get behind the short/no touch protections...



Since you have such disrespect for DIY types, why exactly are you on a DIY forum?

I have built all kinds of insustral machines for 30 years, 3 phase electrical equipment on down, every design passes certified electrical engineer inspection, usually several times before these machines are installed...

What EXACTLY makes *YOU* think I don't strictly follow simple 48 VDC wiring safety rules?

Maybe you should keep *Assumptions* to yourself since you can't be civil...

seems to me you are the one assuming and being combative here, and being uncivil at it, so consider yourself ignored

 

[Johneb]

It's different in united states. We by and large don't have a good recycling system but the restaurants still have to dispose of the waste oil on a regular basis. If they can't get someone to get it they have to pay to have it disposed of. Its tricky. The more rural the areas the harder it is to get rid of it for them reliably. Dumping it is frowned on and a royal pain for them on a regular basis. Finding someone that will contract with them aka free makes it a dream for them.

But for small time users its harder for them to find because of the deals they setup. Also in rural areas there a far less restaurants per mile. So basically more farmers and stuff wanting it and less supply.

Not to mention we have large companies now that have contracts with resteraunts for the bio added to pump diesel.

 

[Mattb4]

Facing famine this morning. After a day yesterday that started off nice and clear it went to clouds and occasional sprinkle by noon. Very little PV gain during the prime charging hours of the day. Woke this morning with my batteries low and the coffee maker starting caused my AIO to transfer to grid. The morning is stormy with rain so it will be a while before the sun will arrive to begin recharging my batteries.

No big problem, or so I thought. That is until the grid went away and I am back on my batteries with maybe 20% capacity. I did not anticipate a grid loss with the weather pattern. Do not know what caused the loss of grid and if it goes on for long I might be forced to start my generator. Funny thing was just the other day I was thinking of selling the generator because I have this Jim dandy solar stuff to carry me through any grid down scenario.

The low voltage alarm has just began, what a pain, it does not quit until battery voltage rises above the setting.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

Facing famine this morning. After a day yesterday that started off nice and clear it went to clouds and occasional sprinkle by noon. Very little PV gain during the prime charging hours of the day. Woke this morning with my batteries low and the coffee maker starting caused my AIO to transfer to grid. The morning is stormy with rain so it will be a while before the sun will arrive to begin recharging my batteries.

No big problem, or so I thought. That is until the grid went away and I am back on my batteries with maybe 20% capacity. I did not anticipate a grid loss with the weather pattern. Do not know what caused the loss of grid and if it goes on for long I might be forced to start my generator. Funny thing was just the other day I was thinking of selling the generator because I have this Jim dandy solar stuff to carry me through any grid down scenario.

The low voltage alarm has just began, what a pain, it does not quit until battery voltage rises above the setting.

take that genset and get a propane conversion kit for it. no need to keep gas around that goes stale, and a bbq propane tank will last a long time on a smaller genset. a standard BBQ propane bottle runs my makita 5kw genset for quiet a long time... i never bother to fire up unless i can run it at 75% load to maximize charging and what not. (i have not used it since switching to lithium though.)

this is the company i bought from. https://www.uscarburetion.com/ they offer the snorkel kit which is the easiest to install. and works great for most gensets below 5kw

 

[Mattb4]

Got back from my morning walk (rain down to a sprinkle) and the Grid is back. I avoided having to resort to the generator by a shave, it being close. It would be nice to have my Honda inverter as a propane fueled unit. Having to drain the gas each August and replace is an annoyance.

I had hoped my battery capacity would have taken me further than a night, followed by a poor PV generation day and another night. I should have ran my aux. battery charger (12a on overnight timer) last night. Its purpose is to cover such situations.

 

[EastTexCowboy]

Got back from my morning walk (rain down to a sprinkle) and the Grid is back. I avoided having to resort to the generator by a shave, it being close. It would be nice to have my Honda inverter as a propane fueled unit. Having to drain the gas each August and replace is an annoyance.

I had hoped my battery capacity would have taken me further than a night, followed by a poor PV generation day and another night. I should have ran my aux. battery charger (12a on overnight timer) last night. Its purpose is to cover such situations.

I made it three days of rainy weather before going to grid once but that was early May and it was much cooler. Sounds like you could stand to add a little more battery.

 

[SamDeleted]

I have a redundant solar field. Panel strings, charge controller, battey/batteries at the ends of the solar strings connected to a DC Buss (DC coupled).

With the more volatile chemestries out away from shops or homes, an insulated box with minor heat is all that's needed to be more than 'Reasonably Safe' with any chemestry.

I'm perfectly aware that a lot of city dwellers don't have room for ground mount panels, and I'm aware DIY batteries wouldn't pass city code inspections even if they were off grid, city dwellers being the least likely to be off grid...

I have no such restrictions, and being off grid I savaged what I could afford, and built within the education base I have.
It's not 'Code', it's not 'Perfect, it's not 'Pretty'...
However it is functional, redundant, and it's mostly 'Safe', can fail right where it's at and won't damage anything else, like burn the house or business down.
30 years of experimentation and education as I find it.

I can't say it's fool proof, the 'Great Coyote Fire' of 2015 proves there are some things that CAN happen. A coyote managed to get into a pouch cell battery box, the fire was mostly contained to the coyote, but there you have it. How a coyote got the lid off the battery box is still a mystery...

Scorched a post, damaged a panel, smoked the battery/box/charge controllers, but damage was limited to that ONE box/panel, more or less.

Since weight/space really isn't an issue for me, refractory cement (like in fire safes) and rock wool in common metal cabinets work just fine for me.

In 30 years I've used everything from military surplus aluminum or steel cabinets, to refrigerators to the big office copier cabinets, it really doesn't matter where the cabinet comes from...

Indoors it's LiFePO4 batteries as fast as zi can find/build them. With a big, long DC Buss they act more like capacitors than batteries internally in the system...
Sudden Big Amp draws in the shop especially, so it's the best fit for the application.

I'm sure if I had neighbors, they would complain the cabinets 'Didn't Match' or didn't have designer labels...
When I started 30 years ago, there weren't any 'Designer Labels', and like an old tractor the paint has faded on, they still get the job done just fine.

With DIY, it's about how it works, not what the neighbors think is 'Cute' or 'Expensive/Designer'.

Are there any pics around from your cabinets

I like the redundancy

 

[Mattb4]

I made it three days of rainy weather before going to grid once but that was early May and it was much cooler. Sounds like you could stand to add a little more battery.

Problem with adding more battery is than I would need more PV to charge. The vicious cycle of design, find components and build would begin all over.

 

[EastTexCowboy]

Problem with adding more battery is than I would need more PV to charge. The vicious cycle of design, find components and build would begin all over.

That's not a problem. That's our life now. Embrace it!

 

[LydMekk]

After 3 days with rain the weather is finally clearing up now.
Wasn't too bad - battery got down to 35ish.
This afternoon almost back to 90.
The grueling fear of the grid abates...

 

[SeaGal]

Problem with adding more battery is than I would need more PV to charge. The vicious cycle of design, find components and build would begin all over.

previously said....

As I prepare to mount my last solar panels and hook them up it strikes me that I have reached the point where there is nothing left to do. The months spent investigating, researching, planning, building, wiring, tearing out, re-doing and just generally occupying my attention, are drawing to a close once the final setup is up and working. At this point it just transitions to routine maintenance and repair. My system meets the needs I am putting it to. It works.

Sorta sad

... think you've found a cure for your own sadness ?

 

[Mattb4]

... think you've found a cure for your own sadness ?

Bad show holding me to previous statements.

How did it go.. “A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines." -Emerson


ETA: In case anyone missed it I was poking fun. Sometimes humor does not come across as intended.

 

[wattmatters]

No big problem, or so I thought. That is until the grid went away and I am back on my batteries with maybe 20% capacity. I did not anticipate a grid loss with the weather pattern. Do not know what caused the loss of grid and if it goes on for long I might be forced to start my generator.

I have 20 kWh of sealed lead acid ex-data centre backup batteries (in very good condition) which are kept at float for exactly this purpose. My LiFePO4 does the normal daily cycling duty while the lead acid is kept topped up ready for that scenario.

Should that turn out to not be sufficient and the solar PV is unable to recharge enough, then the generator can come out for some supplemental charging. It doesn't need to be a super powerful unit. My Yamaha can comfortably supply 2 kW and that's plenty for my supplemental recharging needs.

 

[Zwy]

It is what it is.

Up to a 10 year wait for a ramp or wheel chair lift to your house if you need one, artifical joints so worn out they find heavy metals in your tissues, the list goes on...

Improvise, Adapt & Overcome.

Semper Fi

Some don't overcome, check the suicide rate among vets. I had a 'certified' mental health counselor (trying to tell me the pain from 5 breaks in my back was all in my head) tell me suicide WAS an option.

Just more nonsense to overcome...

Yes, mental health at the VA can be a real trip.

Now I'm trying to grow citrus at 38.5°N and figure out which home canned pasta sauce I like best! The important things in life...

Citrus? Well, you are in luck, ran across this a few months ago, just loved his enthusiasm and ideas.

 

[Zwy]

Got back from my morning walk (rain down to a sprinkle) and the Grid is back. I avoided having to resort to the generator by a shave, it being close. It would be nice to have my Honda inverter as a propane fueled unit. Having to drain the gas each August and replace is an annoyance.

You need some Pri-G. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009TWQAOA/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It works, not like the Stabil. I keep over 700 gallons of gasoline here in storage for equipment and vehicles. Some of it I paid $1.40/gallon for it.

I had hoped my battery capacity would have taken me further than a night, followed by a poor PV generation day and another night. I should have ran my aux. battery charger (12a on overnight timer) last night. Its purpose is to cover such situations.

You need more battery.

 

[timselectric]

If you are charging your current batteries to 100% daily. You have enough solar to add more batteries.