Feast or Famine, The off grid solar dilemma.

[Hedges]

The one thing that chaps my butt on even the good/capable BMS units is no real cell balancing yet.
I usually slap a capable cell balancer on with the BMS, and my imbalance shutdowns have dropped to nearly zero.

Why they can't put a 5 Amp balancer in the BMS is beyond me, but they won't and 100mA to 250mA just doesn't cut the mustard when talking constantly used 300 (+/-) Ah cells.
If the auto makers can do it, why can't we buy one on the open market?

Because most people buy BMS based on price?

Passive balancing 0.9A/cell

REC Q BATTERY MANAGEMENT SYSTEM 16S – REC BMS

www.rec-bms.com

Active bidirectional balancing 2A (maybe doesn't do all cells at once? Since it is transferring between.)

BATTERY MANAGEMENT SYSTEM – REC BMS

www.rec-bms.com

 

[timselectric]

Why they can't put a 5 Amp balancer in the BMS is beyond me, but they won't and 100mA to 250mA just doesn't cut the mustard when talking constantly used 300 (+/-)

This is why I use the JK BMS. It has 2a active balancing built-in. 2a is more than enough for my new cells. If I were using old cells, I would probably add an external active balancer to it. If it was needed.

 

[JeepHammer]

BS EECS UCB, MS EE SJSU.

When I designed microprocessors at HP, I only understood FETs like pinching a hose. I didn't get how bipolar worked, but I used them as a hobbyist.
Went back for MSEE during the great layoffs, this time I survived semiconductor device physics and understand transistors better. But not at the quantum mechanics level.

I've learned more about diodes on the job (reverse leakage of Schottky causing heating and thermal runaway.)

Recently (after 4 decades career) I've started learning more about transformers than just turns ratio. These things were used as amplifiers before transistors or vacuum tubes existed. I'm able to measure, model, SPICE the saturation and hysteresis characteristics. First I was just measuring performance; it was more difficult getting models that represented the behavior.



I split the difference, a fraction of his pay. But good enough to be comfortable, since I'm frugal (and a pack rat.)
I sometimes tell PhD's that they're wrong.



Transformers and inverters - I thought it would be so easy, just buy a 480 delta to 120/208Y step-down transformer and run it backwards. Didn't work out so well. Properly specified and built they would be fine, but typically commercially available transformers are operated too far into saturation and draw excessive current. To address that I feed 120V into 240V windings, and only drive primary not secondary.

transformer excitation current - isolation transformer used as auto-transformer

So you think you can backfeed a transformer secondary, either as step-up or as auto-transformer? Turns out these things aren't so ideal and reversible as one might expect. It isn't just the greater inrush (primary is often wound outside secondary to reduce inrush current), but also idle current...

diysolarforum.com

transformer excitation current - isolation transformer used as auto-transformer

So you think you can backfeed a transformer secondary, either as step-up or as auto-transformer? Turns out these things aren't so ideal and reversible as one might expect. It isn't just the greater inrush (primary is often wound outside secondary to reduce inrush current), but also idle current...

diysolarforum.com

See, YOU get it!

Trying to get a grid electrical engineer to understand how a vehicle ignition coil (transformer) works and what we need out of it was a nightmare...

To him, it was knocking voltage up or down, in continous operation...
He just couldn't grasp the idea of core material or core design changes, he worked with exactly the same cores for 30 years and couldn't wait to tell me how wrong I was...

It was like bobbin wound or E cores didn't exist, and why would we want to change duration of the output, trade voltage for amperage or duration, etc.

To him, there was only one core, laminated steel... there was only one core design, etc.

No, we had 12 volts to work with, so capacitive discharge gave us 600 volts. That was INSANE to him...
If he had been the 'Authrority' we would still be running breaker points and just give up going anywhere in really cold weather.

I've been told my system is 'Obsolete' and 'Antiquated' when they want to be polite, outright junk when they don't.

What they can't say is it's 'Delicate', or 'Failure Prone'.
One guy said, "Well, you don't have to worry about an EMP."
(The LAST thing on my list of what can go wrong)

It's not the latest whiz-bang beta test of a product, it's a workhorse that mixes old with new...

I'm a consumer of 4 pole, Double throw manual switches.
If the charge controller fails, flip the switch...
My 'Spare' charge controller is easiest to find when it's mounted & wired in parallel. Problem solved.

When a 2 cent resistor & 10 cent 'Red' LED will let me know where a failure point is, you bet I'm spending the 12 cents.

I keep getting asked why I don't use solid state switching in a lot of applications...

First is cost. The mechanical is dirt cheap, the second is diagnostics.

For instance, I leave replacment relays in the bottom of the boxes, swap a $2 relay for diagnostic, takes 10 seconds.

No de-soldering, no soldering, no special diagnostic equipment required, no wait time for parts... and a relay can get that 12 cent LED to see if its working if I didn't order one with a LED in the first place...

I add a 5 cent diode and I have a latching relay, I don't have to stock 40 kinds of relays...

A guy asked why I used big contractors in my early batteries. Well, have a catastrophic failure and trip the safety circuit, the battery has plenty of power to take itself off line, and a 5 cent diode latches that relay open until what failed gets fixed, I don't have to RUN for the disconnect,
And RUNNING assumes I'm even home when a coyote decides to commit suicide on my system...

I got the same questions about my 250 quart canning retort and switching it to electromagnetic induction...
Nearly perfect heat control, consistent heating times (so I don't overcook my food), I make electricity, I don't make wood, propane, or coal,
... And big live steam boilers scare the hell out of me/are a ton of maintiance to keep them safely operating.
I don't need state/federal training, permits/certification, inspections to run my retort on electricity.

The retort is from 1932 if I remember correctly, didn't cost $250,000 and does exactly the same job...
Can't seem to give a crap if someone thinks it's 'Ugly' or 'Obsolete'... I mean I sat on the toilet and grunted, just can't give a crap... ?

 

[Hedges]

So little energy that can be stored in a magnetic core. I think that is how ignition system works. (Magneto during rope-start stores more in a wound spring. My old CAT pony motors were difficult to start because the pawls threw out and disengaged at any RPM, needed a spring to keep catching at cranking speeds.)
A "Line Tamer" ferro-resonant transformer is about 50x as heavy per watt as an isolation transformer.

I tried to apply my Variac and oscilloscope B-H curve measurement technique to a magnetic lens (solid, no laminations.) I couldn't drive it into saturation at 60 Hz because eddy currents acted like a shorted turn. At 25V & 10A, it was dissipating 150W in a core the size of a Hostess donut, and 100W in the wire, but the BH curve was an oval, not an "S".

Magnetics used to be an important engineering field. I think just a few suppliers with expertise now.

E-cores - when used for 3-phase, they seem to cause me excess neutral current if phase voltages are imbalanced. (one 125V phase from grid passed through master, other two 120V from slave inverters.) Three separate transformers works better. For the E-core, I've rewired it as an auto-transformer and left the neutral disconnected. That eliminated the 1A neutral current, and it still seems to work with 3-phase GT PV inverter.

 

[JeepHammer]

One other thing lead did was boost octane. For a while, rumor was that filling 50/50 with leaded and unleaded gave additional octane boost.
There are alternative additives now (molybdenum?) Instead-O-Lead Gold lists manganese.

Close, but not quite right.

Early fuel was spotty on quality. There is a reason Standard Oil took off so well, it was the first standardized fuel product no matter where you bought it, it did what it said it would do.

Lead helped with 'Spark Knock'...
A combination of detonation and vehicles back then had manual spark advances, a lever usually in the steering wheel.

Adding lead kept detonation to a minimum, which allowed the octane rating to be increased, it didn't actually raise the octane of the base fuel, which is controlled in the refinement process.

Airplanes still have manual spark advance since they use magnetos and its the reason aviation gasoline still has lead, basically to keep the engine from scrapping itself due to operator error/too much ignition advance.

I see all these 'Preppers' running around saying that an EMP or solar belch will kill all fuel injected cars... not true at all, but facts rarely matter when 'Beliefs' are involved.

Why none of them goes with a manual shift, and a magneto so you could hand crank, spring start, roll or pull start the vehicle is beyond me...

Probably the $800 plus price tag for the magneto and the lack of education that let them fall for the 'Carrington Event' or EMP crap in the first place.

What I enjoy is seeing everyone complain about the alcohol in fuel, never considering the 100 or so additives in basic pump gas being the issue.
It just HAS to be the alcohol because they saw it on the internet somewhere...
Not realizing the stabilizers in gasoline are only intended for 90 days in the supply chain, and gasoline in its raw form starts decomposing immedately without the additives. Again, basic science, gasoline is a VOC, and you can't see to get them to understand the 'Volitile' part at all... It MUST be that communist alcohol! (As they swill down Bud Light)

 

[Hedges]

I have at least second hand information regarding EMP testing on cars.
And I've witnessed other "above ground" testing of nuclear effects on electronics. Some, I planned and conducted.
Except for EMP, fate of the electronics wouldn't be your concern if they hit your car or inverter.

Cars won't be the problem (maybe some newer ones with the most sensitive electronics?) Some hand-held radios would get damaged, others wouldn't. PV systems could be hit; probably TVS devices would be sufficient. Things connected to power and phone lines are more vulnerable.

Only my old tractors that I don't use anymore have mechanical fuel injection and compression ignition. Even the K2500 diesel has transistorized injection.

It is infrastructure and supply chain that would impact us. Time for Mad Max and protecting our stock of gas as it goes bad.

 

[JeepHammer]

So little energy that can be stored in a magnetic core. I think that is how ignition system works. (Magneto during rope-start stores more in a wound spring. My old CAT pony motors were difficult to start because the pawls threw out and disengaged at any RPM, needed a spring to keep catching at cranking speeds.)
A "Line Tamer" ferro-resonant transformer is about 50x as heavy per watt as an isolation transformer.

I tried to apply my Variac and oscilloscope B-H curve measurement technique to a magnetic lens (solid, no laminations.) I couldn't drive it into saturation at 60 Hz because eddy currents acted like a shorted turn. At 25V & 10A, it was dissipating 150W in a core the size of a Hostess donut, and 100W in the wire, but the BH curve was an oval, not an "S".

Magnetics used to be an important engineering field. I think just a few suppliers with expertise now.

E-cores - when used for 3-phase, they seem to cause me excess neutral current if phase voltages are imbalanced. (one 125V phase from grid passed through master, other two 120V from slave inverters.) Three separate transformers works better. For the E-core, I've rewired it as an auto-transformer and left the neutral disconnected. That eliminated the 1A neutral current, and it still seems to work with 3-phase GT PV inverter.

The basic electro-magnetic link...

The coil/core doesn't STORE anything.
Thats why it's called a transformer, not a storage device.

There is no current unless something is MOVING.
The magnetic field must be MOVING through a conductor (field winding) to produce electrical potential.

Example, See an alternator rotor moving it's magnetic field through a stator winding...

The conductor won't produce a magnetic field around it unless there is current MOVING (circuit completed).

The core is simply a focus of the energy when in a magnetic state.

Example, primary winding produces magnetic field. The ferrous CORE focuses the magnetic field, keeps it from expanding out looking for ferious material.

When the primary circuit is cut, the magnetic field COLLAPSES on the core, and in doing so passes right through the secondary winding INDUCING a current potential in the secondary winding.

The more of that magnetic field you can get through the secondary winding, the more efficient the energy transfer from electrical, to magnetic, back to electrical.

It's ALL moving or nothing happens. It's just two windings around the core with no storage at all.

Now, the core CAN control how fast or slow the magnetic field collapses, that determines the duration of the secondary current potential.
This is where material and design come in.

Plain iron doesn't hold residual magnetism, so no matter how many times you make pure iron an electromagnet, it won't develop its own magnetic field that would resist the electromagnetic field you are trying to make in with the primary winding.

Ferrous reluctor cores, like ferrite rings work the same way, but are optimally engineered materials.
Basically purified iron you can make any shape.

I use ferrite rings, cut a gap in them, then use them to focus electromagnetic induction on the point inside the gap.
I can heat a resistive metal to any temp I want on very low power this way.

For instance, actual silver solder or brass/bronze brazing without acetylene/oxygen torch, the only other way to reach melt point of silver, bronze or brass.
It's also pinpoint heat, I'm not setting everything around the soderables on fire...

Pretty freaking handy to stick a braze/solder piece in the ferrite gap, push the button on the induction driver, and be done perfectly in seconds!

If you try this, use Litz wire between induction driver and core. Remember you want eddie currents, and Litz wire has several stands, multiplies the number of eddie curdents.

Litz wire [Encyclopedia Magnetica]

e-magnetica.pl

Steel on the other hand, the more you align the grain the more of a residual magnetic field it WILL devlope.

In this case you use a laminated steel core. The stacked strips of steel all carry a different magnetic pole, and they cancel each other.
It's a de-magnitizer, opposed magnetic poles, just like you use on tools when they become magnetized.

That crap fight while it's demagnitizing itself can extend the duration, slow the magnetic field collapse, or accelerate it depending on if the core is centered in the primary winding, or extends out and around the primary winding.

There are others, hollow core or 'Bobbin', air core, all kinds of crap someone smarter than me figured out...

 

[Hedges]

Transformer or choke core acts as a permanent magnet. Apply voltage to coil, current tries to increase and the magnetic field it produces changes. That orients magnetic field of each crystal grain in the core, and those resist increase in current flow. As they all get magnetized, core's ability to resist is reduced (becomes more saturated) until eventually same as an air core.

If you reduce current to zero at that point, some remnant magnetism in the core.

If you reapply voltage of same polarity, it goes into saturation sooner. I've applied DC to a transformer and it held off current for 20ms. Second time I did it, 2ms before current from CV/CC supply shot up to limit. That's transformer inrush.

Reverse polarity, and it holds off current for 20ms the first time. 2ms the second.

If you try to reduce current to zero instantly, the collapsing field will induce current. We've blown up some power supplies that way. It is how points-type ignition works. Energy is stored in the magnetic flux (mostly in your air gap, or distributed gap for ferrites, or in the shellac gap between laminations of an e-core.)

There is no current unless something is MOVING.
The magnetic field must be MOVING through a conductor (field winding) to produce electrical potential.

Example, See an alternator rotor moving it's magnetic field through a stator winding...

Either mechanical motion, or just magnetic field collapsing because you tried to stop the current.

The coil/core doesn't STORE anything.
Thats why it's called a transformer, not a storage device.

A little bit stored in magnetic field. The no-load current x voltage x time, which is about 1/50th of rated current for a transformer x rated voltage x 8 millisecond phase.

If you increase voltage 20% or decrease frequency 20%, transformer probably goes into saturation and current shoots up.

In the case of an inductor for a boost circuit (e.g. 12V high frequency inverter making 120V), 100% of its output power comes from what is stored in the inductor. Put 12V across it for some microseconds, then let go and the stored energy makes it fly to 170V or so. High frequency, because it only stores a little energy so you have to repeat very often.

 

[JeepHammer]

I have at least second hand information regarding EMP testing on cars.
And I've witnessed other "above ground" testing of nuclear effects on electronics. Some, I planned and conducted.
Except for EMP, fate of the electronics wouldn't be your concern if they hit your car or inverter.

Cars won't be the problem (maybe some newer ones with the most sensitive electronics?) Some hand-held radios would get damaged, others wouldn't. PV systems could be hit; probably TVS devices would be sufficient. Things connected to power and phone lines are more vulnerable.

Only my old tractors that I don't use anymore have mechanical fuel injection and compression ignition. Even the K2500 diesel has transistorized injection.

It is infrastructure and supply chain that would impact us. Time for Mad Max and protecting our stock of gas as it goes bad.

I spent 16 years as a field grunt Marine, one of my stations was the magenticis lab at Florida State University.
The U.S. military was in full EMP hardening mode, and this was the place they tested that stuff.

They have magnets that will pull the iron out of you blood while you are still trying to use it!

How the egg heads protected their equipment and lap tops was magnetic sheeting, like fridge magnets from the local pizza joint, which they used.

STANDING magnetic field is the best way to block a MOVING magnetic field, they just wrapped everything in door sign and fridge magnet sheeting.

Then there are a few facts that again will trigger the conspiracy theorists...

The ONLY way for humans to make a large scale EMP is detonating a thermonuclear device in the magnetosphere,and it has to be fairly precisely aligned with the earths magnetic field 'Lay' lines.

That means, first, you have to have a space program to determine exactly where the lay lines are,
And you have to deliver a LARGE nuclear warhead to that spot,
Then you have to get a full, complete nuclear detonation.

Not too many countries have space programs that can locate the lay lines, and deliver a GUIDED missle to that spot, and have a warhead that will precisely function.

On the other hand you could just stick some fridge magnets to your car computer case and not worry about it.

If you are close enough for a nuclear EMP to wipe your car computer, you are radioactive toast anyway...

 

[Crowz]

As I found in the mountains, with the perfect temperature swing and fog. My gas tank would extract several ounces of water from the air.
Solution is a tank like cars usually have, vacuum breaker but pressure seal. That prevents breathing. I also used a portable boat tank, manual seal.



One other thing lead did was boost octane. For a while, rumor was that filling 50/50 with leaded and unleaded gave additional octane boost.
There are alternative additives now (molybdenum?) Instead-O-Lead Gold lists manganese.

https://www.bardahl.nl/assets/uploads/2017/12/Instead-of-Lead-GOLD-1.pdf

For small equipment, I do turn off gas valve and run carburetor dry.

Older carbs it doesn't really help with running the gas out. The damage is done via contact with the diaphragm that acts as a fuel pump. I have saved some of them and need to do some pics of them. It distorts the rubber membrane making it not flow fuel.

 

[Crowz]

I have at least second hand information regarding EMP testing on cars.
And I've witnessed other "above ground" testing of nuclear effects on electronics. Some, I planned and conducted.
Except for EMP, fate of the electronics wouldn't be your concern if they hit your car or inverter.

Cars won't be the problem (maybe some newer ones with the most sensitive electronics?) Some hand-held radios would get damaged, others wouldn't. PV systems could be hit; probably TVS devices would be sufficient. Things connected to power and phone lines are more vulnerable.

Only my old tractors that I don't use anymore have mechanical fuel injection and compression ignition. Even the K2500 diesel has transistorized injection.

It is infrastructure and supply chain that would impact us. Time for Mad Max and protecting our stock of gas as it goes bad.

My old 1968 case 580ck backhoe wouldn't be bothered by one. The only thing electrical on that sucker is the starter motor which you can roll down a hill to crank the diesel off and the headlights.

 

[JeepHammer]

Transformer or choke core acts as a permanent magnet.

I can't even come close to agreeing in theory or practice.

Transformers have a completely different function than a ferrite core, choke being just one function of ferrites.

The transformer core is specifically designed NOT to become a perminant magnet.
If it did, the transformer wouldn't function as designed, the reason residual magnetism is avoided at all costs in transformer cores.

Apply voltage to coil, current tries to increase and the magnetic field it produces changes. That orients magnetic field of each crystal grain in the core,

Correct, TEMPORARY electromagnet due to the magnetic field surrounding the conductor when the current is flowing.

The core is only there in transformers to keep a MAGNETIC focus point for the magnetic field.
If it had its own magnetic field it would resist the electromagnetic field, particularly if it were perpendicular to the electromagnetic field.

and those resist increase in current flow. As they all get magnetized, core's ability to resist is reduced (becomes more saturated) until eventually same as an air core.

Again, can't agree.
While the core material will reach a MAGNETIC saturation point, simply because the winding voltage isn't increasing anymore, so it can't create more current magnetism around the conductor.
The secondary to that is the core heats from induction reducing it's magnetic properties.

If you reduce current to zero at that point, some remnant magnetism in the core.

Only in the sense the electromagnetic field has stopped, and it takes TIME (Duration) for the iron core to attract the last of the magnetic field the current produced.
The origional magnetic polarity of each grain (crystaline) will return to it's origional orientation, the core will demagnatize itself since it wasn't magnetic to begin with. It doesn't 'Store' magnetism, and it doesn't produce it's own magnetic field.

If you reapply voltage of same polarity, it goes into saturation sooner. I've applied DC to a transformer and it held off current for 20ms. Second time I did it, 2ms before current from CV/CC supply shot up to limit.

Not that I've ever seen. Between 2ms and 100ms depending on core material and design, but that's simply how long it takes for the magnetic field to fully collapse and rhe core material magnetic poles to randomize again, go back to a non-magnetic state.

That's transformer inrush.

Again, completely different subject and I don't agree with the assumption of what causes inrush effect.

Reverse polarity, and it holds off current for 20ms the first time. 2ms the second.

Of course it 'charges' quicker, the conductor material, winding, is ionized, the electrons are excited, and an electronic doesn't care which way the current flows through a conductor.
We are talking sub atomic particles, literally as fast as the speed of light...

Either polarity direction all they have to be is excited. The first charge excited them and they haven't gone back into stable orbits (or phases if you are a physicists).

Electrons are weird little animals, they have at least 32 states we know about, do weird dissapearing things, etc.

That's why it's called electrical theory instead of electrical fact, we just don't know what those little buggers do in their private life...

If you try to reduce current to zero instantly, the collapsing field will induce current.

Only if there is a completed circuit in the path of that collapsing magnetic field.

If not, it's like any wire conductor and the residual magnetic field fades out into the planetary magnetic field.

We've blown up some power supplies that way.

I can't comment on how your power supplies failed...

It is how points-type ignition works. Energy is stored in the magnetic flux (mostly in your air gap, or distributed gap for ferrites, or in the shellac gap between laminations of an e-core.)

No.
Nothing is 'Stored'.
Its transformed from electrical current, to magnetic field, when the magnetic field collapses THROUGH the secondary winding that MOVING magnetic field INDUCES a current in the secondary winding.

Everything depends on movement, current movement to produce the magnetic field, collapse movement to induce secondary coil current, all movement, nothing stored.

There is a delay only because of the gap in the spark plug.
It takes time to ionize the gap, get the plasma ball started,
Voltage in the secondary winding will increase as the magnetic field collapses.

That secondary coil induction current will stop when the magnetic field collapses. Period. No storage.

Of the plasma ball didn't form, there won't be a spark...
If the plasma ball does form, then you have a completed circuit.
The POTENTIAL became actual current.

That's why we manipulate core material, shape, conductor size in both primary & secondary windings, adjust the gap at the plug, etc.

We manipulate for VOLTAGE to get the plug gap ionized, the plasma ball started.
Once that happens, we manipulate for DURATION, as much TIME as we can keep that plasma ball alive in the gap.
The sooner the gap ionizes, the plasma ball forms, the more of the very short time can be spent on keeping that plasma ball alive to get the fuel/air mixture burning.

6 volts @ 3 amps didn't do it, so we tried 12 volts @ roughly 3 amps.
Thicker primary wire for more than 3 amps and the coil became too big/expensive.
Thicker wire means more wire for the same number of turns, and a circle expands at a rate of 3.14 (pi), so more than 3 times the size for just the primary winding.

The next step was to get away from breaker points with ionization/arcing problems, slow switching.
Transistors had pretty much a square switching wave form, no bell curve ramp up, ramp down issues, and no mechanical wear/dwell time issues.

Firing voltages went from 7k to about 18k volts, but open circuit peak out voltage could reach 75k.
The higher the voltage the less amperage/duration, so quick, thin, thready weak plasma at the gap, bit it was plasma every single time...

You CAN'T increase saturation time, the time the breaker points are closed, you can't add a lot more windings, but you CAN take the losses in saturation TIME from the breaker points by using a transistor for switching.

When that pretty much maxed out, transistors were reliable and capacitors were being used as storage devices, so capacitive induction threw 600 volts at the ignition coil.
Two banks of capacitors could keep the plasma ball in the plug gap 6 times (or more) longer, virtually ensuring the fuel/air mixture would get ignited.

Of course, this changed everything, vehicles started promptly, and in all conditions, even when the fuel mixture was screwed up.

When the RPM increases above 2,500 to 3,500 there is no longer mechanical TIME to fire that plug 6 times so fast you never loose the plasma ball.

The ignition has to go to single fire, but again, the mechanical engine DWELL doesn't matter anymore, both sets of capacitors can feed the coil at 600 volts for one LONG duration plasma ball.
Engines running at higher RPM are MUCH easier to ignite than a cold one at a couple hundred RPM with screwed up fuel mixture... so it works well.

I don't normally post this, but I do have a couple of patents (long expired) in automotive ignitions.
There is a reason I had money in the bank to buy land with when I got disabled in the Marines.
Not Bill Gates or Bruce Springsteen money (shows how old I am), but enough to get started on.

So self educated, so I do fully admit I have some gaping holes in that education. Not like a self-propelled sandbag in the Marines accidently gets an EE degree...
The reason I did well at ignitions is right time, right place, understanding of the electromagnetic principals, and a little OCD, I can't leave a stone unturned. See backups and redundancy for everything in my solar systems for examples.

Ignirions were the big limiting factor, switching from breaker points to electronic breakerless, and I had car parts to play with as a kid.
Conversions from breaker to breaker less was my first paying business about 13 years old.
I tuned race cars before that, and trucks/farm equipment before that.
I'm naturally a gears and wires guy.





Either mechanical motion, or just magnetic field collapsing because you tried to stop the current.

 

[JeepHammer]

My old 1968 case 580ck backhoe wouldn't be bothered by one. The only thing electrical on that sucker is the starter motor which you can roll down a hill to crank the diesel off and the headlights.

Can't say that about lawnmowers now!
They have an electrical solenoid valve, an 'Anti-backfire' valve in the carb.

The reason is people now days don't idle down before they shut the mower off, but if it fails no fuel gets from float bowl to carb jets.

Not everyone learned on farm equipment and has common sense, so it has to be 'Idiot Proofed'... which makes bigger idiots...

EMP only effects long runs of wires, like the electrical grid or copper telephone wiring.

EMP has about zero effect on short runs of wiring, and most vehicles wouldn't be running, so wiring disconnected at the key switch anyway...

They don't consider the blower motor, the starter and the alternator have WAY more local influence on the wiring.

Switching jobs from starter and blower motor, starter causes voltage dropouts/spikes, and the alternator throws way more magnetic field than an EMP would, and all your car's wiring is surrounded by a metal box, more or less a Faraday cage...

The generators at ground zero testing shut down. If the blast/Shockwave didn't get them, they started right back up...

That one fact alone should tell you down close to mother earth you are pretty well protected.
Hundreds of miles of elevated wiring that a magnetic field can run along and induce voltage, with transformers barely holding on by their toenails right now, it's going to get ugly...

But then again, that's AC.
If you have short wiring runs, DC, like solar PV, if you have to reset a breaker Id be suprised...

They say you need batteries in garbage cans (Faraday cage) not knowing batteries are CHEMICAL storage. Batteries won't know or care there was a transient magnetic field even if they were up on a pole... no effect at all on batteries.

If you are close enough to the blast, then you have hard radiation problems that trump the toaster not working.
I watched them drive common golf carts around while the EMP tests were going on, no issues what-so-ever...
Fridge magnets protected the computers in the building where the EMP was happening...

Of course, I don't have high powered communications gear or radar, target tracking systems in my vehicles, so I can't say what it does to that gear.

I do remember when fuel injection was kicking off and all the sensor/EM/RF problems they had to learn, and harden the wiring harness for... so already pretty well EMP hardened now.

 

[SilverbackMP]

I think you’all should meet up at MidNite’s HQ with a case of beer and hammer out twisted space time and zero point energy and we can ditch batteries and panels lol. Only half joking.

 

[Hedges]

I can't even come close to agreeing in theory or practice.

Transformers have a completely different function than a ferrite core, choke being just one function of ferrites.

Different materials for different frequencies. I developed and hand wound a transformer using powdered iron toroid (the size of a life saver candy) to make 11 MHz 720Vpp for an instrument. The primary and secondary only had 0.05 coupling, so it was more a loosely coupled resonator (with capacitive load on output.)

For the most part, transformer works by induced current in secondary canceling field in primary. And inductance limiting current flow if secondary is open.

The transformer core is specifically designed NOT to become a perminant magnet.
If it did, the transformer wouldn't function as designed, the reason residual magnetism is avoided at all costs in transformer cores.

You don't want it to (hysteresis) but there always is some.

Correct, TEMPORARY electromagnet due to the magnetic field surrounding the conductor when the current is flowing.

The core is only there in transformers to keep a MAGNETIC focus point for the magnetic field.
If it had its own magnetic field it would resist the electromagnetic field, particularly if it were perpendicular to the electromagnetic field.

Core forms a magnetic circuit, carrying magnetic flux through other turns of same or other winding.
If there is a gap, most of the field strength is there (e.g. relay or solenoid.)

Again, can't agree.
While the core material will reach a MAGNETIC saturation point, simply because the winding voltage isn't increasing anymore, so it can't create more current magnetism around the conductor.
The secondary to that is the core heats from induction reducing it's magnetic properties.

Saturation is when magnetic material can't respond to more applied field, by the induced magnetism (orientation of electron spin) canceling magnetic field of coil. At least, I think it is canceling the field. Anyway, it resists current flow until it saturates (which may be sudden or gradual). As it saturates, inductance decreases, so for same applied voltage current ramps up faster.

Look again at my current waveforms. Instead of nice sine waves, they are a series of Hershey's Kisses. Apply 1/2 of nominal voltage, much closer to sine wave.

transformer excitation current - isolation transformer used as auto-transformer

So you think you can backfeed a transformer secondary, either as step-up or as auto-transformer? Turns out these things aren't so ideal and reversible as one might expect. It isn't just the greater inrush (primary is often wound outside secondary to reduce inrush current), but also idle current...

diysolarforum.com

Only in the sense the electromagnetic field has stopped, and it takes TIME (Duration) for the iron core to attract the last of the magnetic field the current produced.
The origional magnetic polarity of each grain (crystaline) will return to it's origional orientation, the core will demagnatize itself since it wasn't magnetic to begin with. It doesn't 'Store' magnetism, and it doesn't produce it's own magnetic field.

A transformer might eventually fully demagnetize, but in operation it toggles magnetization back and forth, and retains a certain amount when turned off. I'm sure that varies with core material.

Not that I've ever seen. Between 2ms and 100ms depending on core material and design, but that's simply how long it takes for the magnetic field to fully collapse and rhe core material magnetic poles to randomize again, go back to a non-magnetic state.

It is an inductor, so more voltage ramps up current faster. I was using DC voltage similar to rated AC RMS, so time to saturate was on the order of one 60 Hz AC cycle. The distinct 20 ms vs. 2 ms was when I reversed polarity, or hit it again with same polarity. This is what makes transformer inrush.

Again, completely different subject and I don't agree with the assumption of what causes inrush effect.

Look it up or experiment, then.
A transformer is usually operated part way into saturation each phase. Saves on material cost to keep it further out of saturation.
If you cut power at the end of a positive going cycle, then reapply power at the start of positive going cycle, it drives further into saturation and current shoots up. I've tested that (not recording phase), just toggling switch on and off repeatedly to see how high it would go. Current transformer was too slow to capture peak accurately, but Fluke i2000 Rogowski coil (air core, 20 kHz bandwidth) shows 70A peak for a transformer that normally draws a couple amps full load.

Applying DC and toggling polarity, I could reliably observe the effects of remanence magnetization and inrush. But couldn't measure magnetic field itself (no gap).

Measuring a magnetic lens (from SEM), I could measure magnetic field strength with current (1T), remanence (1mT), after de-gauss (1uT).

Of course it 'charges' quicker, the conductor material, winding, is ionized, the electrons are excited, and an electronic doesn't care which way the current flows through a conductor.
We are talking sub atomic particles, literally as fast as the speed of light...

They say the wave travels at speed of light (reduced in a dielectric), while the particles move slower. Mostly thermal motion, and massive current sufficient to melt a wire, electrons are progressing at about a walking pace.

Either polarity direction all they have to be is excited. The first charge excited them and they haven't gone back into stable orbits (or phases if you are a physicists).

Electrons are weird little animals, they have at least 32 states we know about, do weird dissapearing things, etc.

Something about orientation of electron spin in atoms. Exactly why crystal structure is involved, I'm not sure (proximity?) But working or annealing metal changes its magnetic properties. Sometimes, anneal in a magnetic field. These things change the shape of BH curve.

Only if there is a completed circuit in the path of that collapsing magnetic field.

If not, it's like any wire conductor and the residual magnetic field fades out into the planetary magnetic field.

If the circuit is complete, you get current. If it is open, you get voltage.
If there is a spark plug across it, voltage rises until current flows.

I can't comment on how your power supplies failed...

Inductive kick.
Same reason you put a diode or other snubber across a solenoid coil when driving with transistor (or put diode in transistor circuit.)
You'll find these in the solenoids of electrically controlled automatic transmissions and/or the ECU.

No.
Nothing is 'Stored'.
Its transformed from electrical current, to magnetic field, when the magnetic field collapses THROUGH the secondary winding that MOVING magnetic field INDUCES a current in the secondary winding.

The magnetic field is where the energy is stored. Just like electric field between capacitor plates.

The next step was to get away from breaker points with ionization/arcing problems, slow switching.
Transistors had pretty much a square switching wave form, no bell curve ramp up, ramp down issues, and no mechanical wear/dwell time issues.

My father fabricated transistorized points boosters.
I bought and installed an optical interrupter Allison electronic ignition (slotted wheel placed over breaker cam.)

The ignition has to go to single fire, but again, the mechanical engine DWELL doesn't matter anymore, both sets of capacitors can feed the coil at 600 volts for one LONG duration plasma ball.
Engines running at higher RPM are MUCH easier to ignite than a cold one at a couple hundred RPM with screwed up fuel mixture... so it works well.

I'm still living in an earlier era. There is a dwell angle, and RPM. It turns into time battery voltage is applied across a coil. Insufficient, and doesn't build as strong a magnetic field, so when points or electronic ignition interrupts the current, less energy stored in magnetic field to make a spark.

The fix for high-revving V12? Use two 6-plug distributors.

So self educated, so I do fully admit I have some gaping holes in that education.

Maybe I will fill a few of yours, and you will fill a few of mine.

 

[Hedges]

Hundreds of miles of elevated wiring that a magnetic field can run along and induce voltage, with transformers barely holding on by their toenails right now, it's going to get ugly...

Ever notice how power lines are twisted, change place periodically as you drive down the highway beside them?
That should limit the differential mode induced current, maybe prevent saturation of transformers. What's left is common-mode voltage, so an issue of dielectrics. Solid dielectrics could fail. Maybe oils would conduct for a moment then heal.

 

[JeepHammer]

I think you’all should meet up at MidNite’s HQ with a case of beer and hammer out twisted space time and zero point energy and we can ditch batteries and panels lol. Only half joking.

I have space/time figured out.

I have space between my ears that likes to fish, and now that I'm retired I have time to fish until I'm sick of it.

I'm not Steven Hawking and won't pretend to be him on the internet...

I just happen to know a couple things about transformers and/or ignitions.
That's why I used ignition coil (step up transformer) as an example. I spent WAY too many hours winding coils to see if my understanding was right or wrong...
As you might imagine, lots of strikes before computer modeling...
You had to build it to test it... the test was over when you had to put the fire out! ?

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

I only use non ethanol gas. I consider additives such as Pri G as a waste of good money. The only gas additive that actually worked was lead. For diesel you do need an anti-algae additive for long storage periods and a way to separate water.

nope just buy good fuel, and keep the tank completely full a completely full tank will not have any issues with condensation, and if the fuel is clean and water free to begin with... no need for the additives.

 

[Zwy]

When they started adding corn squeeze to gas I personally had all kinds of issues not to mention that stuff STINKS to high heavens when it sits for a few months. When your dealing with tons of the stuff sitting around in various vehicles you get tons of field data on its effects.

All vehicles run like CRAP when the stuff goes bad after a few months. Skipping, spitting and sputtering till fresh gas in put back in.

All of the exhaust coming out smells like sewer pipes.

It EATS weedeater carbs alive if not redone with a modern kit and even those don't last very long. I'm so glad I'm all electric on yard tools now.

I used to never have issues with gas sitting in a vehicle for a year or two before this evil plague.

I think there is more going on than ethanol with those problems. It has to be something with the environment in your location, how fuel is stored and many other factors.

Iowa has had ethanol since the 1980's. I've worked in the automotive industry for over 36 years. In the case of the stinking exhaust, that is because the catalytic converter is being overloaded with excess fuel. This is usually due to engine misfires which is the result of poor maintenance. Other factors can cause the rich feedgas problem such as failed MAF, MAP, O2, engine mechanical issue.

I'm not a huge fan of ethanol, don't get the wrong idea. It is extremely hard on steel, such as steel fuel lines and steel fuel tanks. Some fuel injectors such as the GM peak and hold type used in the 90's may have had the winding varnish dissolve with ethanol, but then again other injectors didn't have this problem so was it the fuel or GM went out to the lowest bid and an inferior product was used? Considering some states didn't have ethanol and did have the same problem, it was probably the injector insulating material.

Your problems could be ethanol related but given my experience with ethanol for over 36 years and my automotive experience, I'm very skeptical of your claims.

 

[EastTexCowboy]

I think there is more going on than ethanol with those problems. It has to be something with the environment in your location, how fuel is stored and many other factors.

Iowa has had ethanol since the 1980's. I've worked in the automotive industry for over 36 years. In the case of the stinking exhaust, that is because the catalytic converter is being overloaded with excess fuel. This is usually due to engine misfires which is the result of poor maintenance. Other factors can cause the rich feedgas problem such as failed MAF, MAP, O2, engine mechanical issue.

I'm not a huge fan of ethanol, don't get the wrong idea. It is extremely hard on steel, such as steel fuel lines and steel fuel tanks. Some fuel injectors such as the GM peak and hold type used in the 90's may have had the winding varnish dissolve with ethanol, but then again other injectors didn't have this problem so was it the fuel or GM went out to the lowest bid and an inferior product was used? Considering some states didn't have ethanol and did have the same problem, it was probably the injector insulating material.

Your problems could be ethanol related but given my experience with ethanol for over 36 years and my automotive experience, I'm very skeptical of your claims.

I don't know how we get off on these tangents but seems we often do. Sometimes it makes for good discussions. I'm not going to argue with anyone's expertise or experiences with ethanol. All I have is my own. All the marinas on the lake here only sell regular unleaded with no ethanol. I was using mostly regular with ethanol because it was so far to the marinas from our place. My boat with a 250 Yamaha 4 stroke got to running really rough with less than 40 hours on it. Took it to a very respected local boat shop. He asked about the gas, drained the tank, changed the filters, took it out and ran it for 30 minutes and it cleared up. Haven't had a problem since and that was 7 or 8 years ago, but I only run the non-ethanol. Someone mentioned leaded gas but that's not what I'm talking about. I don't even know where you would get that other than specialized fuels. I had a similar issue with my Kawasaki Mule. It had maybe 10 hours on it. But I've also found that on these small gas engines like the mule, mower, chainsaws, etc., that running premium seems to alleviate most of the issues so there's something other than the ethanol going on.

As for additives, I've never seen any performance difference but the Pri G and Pri D certainly seem to extend the viability of the fuel. I tend to stick with whatever works for me.

 

[SilverbackMP]

I think there is more going on than ethanol with those problems. It has to be something with the environment in your location, how fuel is stored and many other factors.

Iowa has had ethanol since the 1980's. I've worked in the automotive industry for over 36 years. In the case of the stinking exhaust, that is because the catalytic converter is being overloaded with excess fuel. This is usually due to engine misfires which is the result of poor maintenance. Other factors can cause the rich feedgas problem such as failed MAF, MAP, O2, engine mechanical issue.

I'm not a huge fan of ethanol, don't get the wrong idea. It is extremely hard on steel, such as steel fuel lines and steel fuel tanks. Some fuel injectors such as the GM peak and hold type used in the 90's may have had the winding varnish dissolve with ethanol, but then again other injectors didn't have this problem so was it the fuel or GM went out to the lowest bid and an inferior product was used? Considering some states didn't have ethanol and did have the same problem, it was probably the injector insulating material.

Your problems could be ethanol related but given my experience with ethanol for over 36 years and my automotive experience, I'm very skeptical of your claims.

Missouri has had ethanol about as long...nowadays Missouri farmers raise corn to turn into ethanol and buy non-ethanol (especially for two stroke stuff) at local Sinclair stations (or from bulk fuel delivery). Their premium is almost always (maybe always) non ethanol. I mean there's a reason Stihl and others sell vastly over priced ethanol-free gas in cans these days.

 

[JeepHammer]

nope just buy good fuel, and keep the tank completely full a completely full tank will not have any issues with condensation, and if the fuel is clean and water free to begin with... no need for the additives.

Yup.
Buy crap, get crap, then complain about it.

If you intend to store it, buy premium.
There is a reason premium is more expensive, it's generally better quality.

FULL fuel tanks means no place for moisture laden air to enter the tank.

The military spends billions on fuel, have properly educated folks to make sure they get exactly what they paid for.
You wouldn't believe what they pay for long term storage fuel.

Now most people won't remember this, but there was a time when about every fuel line had a glass bowl in it. That was to see the fuel, and see if water/sediment had collected...

On the farm, our big storage tank on stilts (gravity feed) had a sight bulb in the bottom to see if we got fuel or water.
Once the fuel delivery people noticed this, our fuel got cleaner...

 

[Zwy]

Missouri has had ethanol about as long...nowadays Missouri farmers raise corn to turn into ethanol and buy non-ethanol (especially for two stroke stuff) at local Sinclair stations (or from bulk fuel delivery). Their premium is almost always (maybe always) non ethanol. I mean there's a reason Stihl and others sell vastly over priced ethanol-free gas in cans these days.

I have to drive at least an hour to purchase non ethanol fuel. Yet my Stihl's runs just fine...........

I'm not a big advocate for ethanol. It has it's pros and cons.

In the post that was referenced, the problems are not due to ethanol. I'm quite certain of that.

Iowa farmers produce ethanol and use it. I know when I drive thru Missouri, I see houses that look like shacks compared to Iowa farmer's houses.

What does that mean? I have an idea. LOL

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

ethanol will absorb water from the surrounding atmosphere, it also damages older engines rubber components as well as the water it absorbs attacks the aluminum in the carbs I have 4 husky saws i run for firewood, a 40+ year old B&S engine that powers my log splitter and all of them get ethanol free.

 

[Mart Hale]

I spent 16 years as a field grunt Marine, one of my stations was the magenticis lab at Florida State University.
The U.S. military was in full EMP hardening mode, and this was the place they tested that stuff.

They have magnets that will pull the iron out of you blood while you are still trying to use it!

How the egg heads protected their equipment and lap tops was magnetic sheeting, like fridge magnets from the local pizza joint, which they used.

STANDING magnetic field is the best way to block a MOVING magnetic field, they just wrapped everything in door sign and fridge magnet sheeting.

Then there are a few facts that again will trigger the conspiracy theorists...

The ONLY way for humans to make a large scale EMP is detonating a thermonuclear device in the magnetosphere,and it has to be fairly precisely aligned with the earths magnetic field 'Lay' lines.

That means, first, you have to have a space program to determine exactly where the lay lines are,
And you have to deliver a LARGE nuclear warhead to that spot,
Then you have to get a full, complete nuclear detonation.

Not too many countries have space programs that can locate the lay lines, and deliver a GUIDED missle to that spot, and have a warhead that will precisely function.

On the other hand you could just stick some fridge magnets to your car computer case and not worry about it.

If you are close enough for a nuclear EMP to wipe your car computer, you are radioactive toast anyway...

I thought about that when the balloon from China went over.... They were getting ready for the nuke for EMP so having the balloon to collect the data before the real one would help them.