Feast or Famine, The off grid solar dilemma.

[JeepHammer]

Same here,
In 2001 saw the set up from a guy I bumped into via my work, and he invited me to see "his super 100% off grid system"
All used Lead Acid batteries questionable set up and constant maintenance, I said "thanks for showing it to me". Then didn't follow suit.
About evey five years (for two decades) I would look into the whole solar as an option thing, and it never made sense for us, always came back to the batteries would not last long enough to justify their own expense. Then in 2019 this pretty quickly all changed! I was getting excited after seeing a few of Will's earlier videos, and thought, hey maybe after 20-years, this will finally be possible!
So jumped in and got started, joined the forum, and here we all are! exciting times, and I bet we are just in the beginning of a long run of new products, new tech, better PV/batteries/inverters I can't wait to see what comes out of the new EV industry and world-wide interest in solar.

Total game changer!

Some people exist to be bad examples to show you what NOT to do...
(That would be me...)

I didn't have a choice. Lead/acid or sit in the dark.
I did learn about actual deep cycle batteries, the highest Amp hour batteries, etc, but it still REALLY SUCKED.

Most people don't remember heat lamps under a vehicle engine, a blanket on the hood, a 'Bird House' battery charger to thaw out the battery, 3 cans of ether starting fluid, and holding your head against the steering wheel trying g to transfer warm thoughts to the car to get it started... ?

I'm SO GLAD things have changed!

 

[OffGridForGood]

Most people don't remember heat lamps under a vehicle engine, a blanket on the hood, a 'Bird House' battery charger to thaw out the battery, 3 cans of ether starting fluid, and holding your head against the steering wheel trying g to transfer warm thoughts to the car to get it started... ?

I'm SO GLAD things have changed!

LOL
I remember growing up,
was super cold (-40s) January about 1978,
The Old-Man says to me, "we need to pull the batteries from the truck tonight" (even back then I knew the WE in this statement means ME) I get some tools and my parka and fighting the 30mph wind get the two batteries out of the truck and bring them into the work shop where they immediately turn white with frost, from the moist air in the warm room.
Good he says, "now put them on the charger so we can get the truck going in the morning"
Then we stuffed some old tarps around the engine bay and plugged in the on-line heater to an outlet for the night.
6:00AM next morning he tells me, "okay now get the truck ready, loosen the alternator bracket and put some slack in the fan belt, then we will put the batteries back in and start the truck"
Back in those days, the fan belt was tensioned with the alternator on a pivot and loosening it meant the accessories didn't all turn when you cranked the engine over.
It was still a strain but the truck started up,
after it ran for a few minutes we just tightened that fan belt with a pry bar and a rachet and got going.
@JeepHammer - ya not the only one that is So Glad things have changed!!
Wow my fingers are feeling that experience all over again just typing this out now!

 

[JeepHammer]

LOL
I remember growing up,
was super cold (-40s) January about 1978,
The Old-Man says to me, "we need to pull the batteries from the truck tonight" (even back then I knew the WE in this statement means ME) I get some tools and my parka and fighting the 30mph wind get the two batteries out of the truck and bring them into the work shop where they immediately turn white with frost, from the moist air in the warm room.
Good he says, "now put them on the charger so we can get the truck going in the morning"
Then we stuffed some old tarps around the engine bay and plugged in the on-line heater to an outlet for the night.
6:00AM next morning he tells me, "okay now get the truck ready, loosen the alternator bracket and put some slack in the fan belt, then we will put the batteries back in and start the truck"
Back in those days, the fan belt was tensioned with the alternator on a pivot and loosening it meant the accessories didn't all turn when you cranked the engine over.
It was still a strain but the truck started up,
after it ran for a few minutes we just tightened that fan belt with a pry bar and a rachet and got going.
@JeepHammer - ya not the only one that is So Glad things have changed!!
Wow my fingers are feeling that experience all over again just typing this out now!

I feel it all over again reading this!

My grandpa had me shovel about 100 yards of 3 foot deep snow so he could get to the barn shop.
Of course that damn near killed me, but I got it done.

Told grandpa it was done, we walked to the barn shop and he lit the stove, sit in his chair, propped his feet against the stove and lit his pipe...

I asked what we were doing that needed nearly a day of hand shoveling snow, and I learned a leason...

He said, and I quote, "Getting away from your grandma, I been cooped up with her for three days."

This is the same grandpa that caught pre-teens digging, because boys dig.
He told us there was hundreds of dollars in coins buried about a foot deep in the garden... so like the gophers we were, we went digging 'Treasure'!

He didn't have to till that end of the garden...

He made me my first lathe, which was surprisingly effective.
Locomotive pistons bolted head down, use the wrist pin holes as the centers, angle iron laid ridge up for a bed.
Started my first business with that lathe...

I miss him...

 

[upnorthandpersonal]

About evey five years (for two decades) I would look into the whole solar as an option thing, and it never made sense for us, always came back to the batteries would not last long enough to justify their own expense.

That's the main reason it took over a decade just to plan my off-grid house. Waiting for technology to catch up with what I wanted to do.

 

[wattmatters]

 

[SamDeleted]

He said, and I quote, "Getting away from your grandma, I been cooped up with her for three days."

Hahahaha !

 

[SamDeleted]

Ay up the , steady on these americans , they aren't gonna understand proper Yorkshire dialect

 

[timselectric]

I'm building for famine. If some of the feast goes to waste, so be it.
I have also been watching the solar market for about 40 years. It didn't make financial sense to me, until a couple of years ago. And finally, the wait was over.

 

[Consumerbot3418]

Unlike the modern world, in UK many homes were built before the invention of electricity or running water.

Wait, @Hedges -- so I should have been reading your posts with an English accent this whole time?

Ay up the , steady on these americans , they aren't gonna understand proper Yorkshire dialect

I'll confess, I ended up hitting the "CC" button on the video. Which was hilarious, btw... Thanks for sharing, @wattmatters !

 

[JeepHammer]

That's the main reason it took over a decade just to plan my off-grid house. Waiting for technology to catch up with what I wanted to do.

Unfortunately, sometimes you just got to go with the best bad plan to get things done.

Don't get me wrong, a good plan now is better than a 'Perfect' situation 10 or 15 years from now, but my choices were no electricity, running a fossil fuel engine every time I flushed the toilet, or going weak solar PV and lead/acid.

I tried battery powered tools (remember Ni-Cad?), which gave up almost immedately working hard, a screaming generator, recharging automotive batteries on a Jeep alternator... Or solar PV which I had been conditioned to believe didn't work.

Paid radio and TV pundits 24/7 in the armed forces, guys like Lush Dimbulb saying it was all a scam and didn't work...

The only thing I had going for me was I had an understanding of electronics/electrical current and got a solar battery 'maintainer' on a car trailer battery... The rest is a LONG, PAINFUL, EXPENSIVE history scaling up, making mistakes, education by trial & error...
(Lots of Errors!)

It's MUCH easier now!

 

[Hedges]

Wait, @Hedges -- so I should have been reading your posts with an English accent this whole time?

1/2 English, 1/4 German, 1/8 ...

But I'll still make fun of them Redcoats, and the monarchy (I spare no one).

 

[dougbert]

Those are not LiFePOs. They are much more volatile than LiFePOs.

didn't say they were. I said they are tesla model S modules which are NMC yes

 

[Eber]

I looked scarefully at the cost of solar. It started out with just trying to have water pressure when the grid was down with its usual monthly outage. My work gets me pretty dusty or grimy so a shower is existencial. I lived with one of those females that never learned in 20 yrs that you dont flush when the grid is down. She just couldnt do it. She might burst into flames and perish if she had a simple logical thought.
Then I saw all the other things solar could do and it just kept getting bigger and bigger...
Soon there should be nothing it cant do regarding home power.
Besides, there are a few threads and discussions that suggest there may be a sizable grid outage to worry about in the future.
So I have way more power than needed in summer, and hopefully need to run the coal stove less this coming winter. So be it- Amen.

 

[JeepHammer]

I looked scarefully at the cost of solar. It started out with just trying to have water pressure when the grid was down with its usual monthly outage. My work gets me pretty dusty or grimy so a shower is existencial. I lived with one of those females that never learned in 20 yrs that you dont flush when the grid is down. She just couldnt do it. She might burst into flames and perish if she had a simple logical thought.
Then I saw all the other things solar could do and it just kept getting bigger and bigger...
Soon there should be nothing it cant do regarding home power.
Besides, there are a few threads and discussions that suggest there may be a sizable grid outage to worry about in the future.
So I have way more power than needed in summer, and hopefully need to run the coal stove less this coming winter. So be it- Amen.

The grid is old, although there are some updates finally being done, but the grid itself has no redundancy built in.
If something goes then you wait in the dark until repair/replacment happens.

In Texas we saw $100 heaters on gas regulators crash the entire Texas grid.
Pretty much the entire east coast up into Canada a few years back when someone didn't throw the switches in the correct order, those morons shooting at substations, etc.

No generation backup anywhere. It's always on a failure point balance.

With solar PV being pretty much plug & play at this point, and manufacturers FINALLY making some equipment that works together, and works for off grid/backup, it makes a LOT more sense and is more cost effective.

Literally alot enough space for a refrigerator for inverter/batteries and slap some solar PV where it's applicable, and you don't sit in the dark... Potentially run off grid entirely if you have enough panel mount space.

 

[Steve Fractals]

here is one on ebay I found, yes in the US

this one is a Revision C, 2017 or later

TESTED w WARRANTY 5.3 kWh Tesla Model S 85 90 EV Battery Module 24V Gen 2 Cells | eBay

They are backward compatible and will fit 2012 to 2020 Tesla Model S and X with proper knowledge. Beware of Gen 1 modules as they are aging out at 10 to 12 years of age and failing. Total energy storage is 5.3 kWh.

www.ebay.com

here is the cheapest one Revision B I found

TESTED Tesla Model S 85 Battery Module 24V 250Ah 5.2 kWh Warranty Lithium | eBay

Free local pickup.

www.ebay.com

When you break these down to remove their BMS's and extras, are they just full of normal LifePo4 cells and if so how many per battery please? I need to work out if I buy one and strip it if I could make one 48V 125ish Ah.

 

[houseofancients]

When you break these down to remove their BMS's and extras, are they just full of normal LifePo4 cells and if so how many per battery please? I need to work out if I buy one and strip it if I could make one 48V 125ish Ah.

only some ( specific china made ) model 3 cars have LifePO4 in them.

the rest are panasonic 18650 LiPo cells, which are pretty unstable by nature , and should not be used inside ones home

 

[JeepHammer]

only some ( specific china made ) model 3 cars have LifePO4 in them.

the rest are panasonic 18650 LiPo cells, which are pretty unstable by nature , and should not be used inside ones home

I have bought salvage EVs at auction, and you really need to do some homework, take notes with you if you go.

I was just interested in the cells and motors, so I did it the hard way. They didn't sell for much, not even the crushers wanted EVs, so $250 to $750 commonly years back.

I learned my lesson about parallel cells the BMS can't manage since it can only monitor the parallel string, not each cell.

As much as I like the Idea of 18650s in parallel, the execution and monitoring is a problem. (Currently)
They can really dump amps in a hurry, and that's what EVs need.

Pouch cells are a bit of a pain, you have to controll swelling, and terminal connections aren't fun, but they are perfectly viable for something like solar PV storage. Just make sure the case you use is rodent proof, like wiring insulation, rodents WILL chew them.
For some reason, wasps like to build nests around them also.

If you are the DIY type, there is LOTS of useable power in EV batteries, and you can pick them up cheap from time to time. I'd say a good workbench project that will produce a very useable battery when you are done.

 

[houseofancients]

I have bought salvage EVs at auction, and you really need to do some homework, take notes with you if you go.

I was just interested in the cells and motors, so I did it the hard way. They didn't sell for much, not even the crushers wanted EVs, so $250 to $750 commonly years back.

I learned my lesson about parallel cells the BMS can't manage since it can only monitor the parallel string, not each cell.

As much as I like the Idea of 18650s in parallel, the execution and monitoring is a problem. (Currently)
They can really dump amps in a hurry, and that's what EVs need.

Pouch cells are a bit of a pain, you have to controll swelling, and terminal connections aren't fun, but they are perfectly viable for something like solar PV storage. Just make sure the case you use is rodent proof, like wiring insulation, rodents WILL chew them.
For some reason, wasps like to build nests around them also.

If you are the DIY type, there is LOTS of useable power in EV batteries, and you can pick them up cheap from time to time. I'd say a good workbench project that will produce a very useable battery when you are done.

once had over a 100 Kwh of tesla model s batteries in my home.
would wake up sweating , no thank you sir....

again do what ever you want, but there have been far and far to many cases of home fires and people losing everything , just to cheap out a save a few buck, not being aware of the actual chemistry and risks involved..

LIPO shouldnt be in ones home, and not even near it for that matter

 

[kennyb]

once had over a 100 Kwh of tesla model s batteries in my home.
would wake up sweating , no thank you sir....

again do what ever you want, but there have been far and far to many cases of home fires and people losing everything , just to cheap out a save a few buck, not being aware of the actual chemistry and risks involved..

LIPO shouldnt be in ones home, and not even near it for that matter

I've still got 4 packs. They're in an airtight steel enclosure encased in rockwool in a tiny outbuilding away from everything. The simpbms helps with my worries, but I still don't like it. If it goes up it'll suck, but at least it won't burn everything else down with it.

Retiring them at the end of this season.

 

[houseofancients]

I've still got 4 packs. They're in an airtight steel enclosure encased in rockwool in a tiny outbuilding away from everything. The simpbms helps with my worries, but I still don't like it. If it goes up it'll suck, but at least it won't burn everything else down with it.

Retiring them at the end of this season.

had the evtv bms..
retired them when i moved to our new home