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diy solar

Feast or Famine, The off grid solar dilemma.

This reminds me that I'm going to have to figure out some solar for a well because I want to drill one next year. We have public water but it's a community water system so I'd like to have a well just in case. I'll be posting on here for advice when I get closer to doing it, but I'm thinking maybe just put a compressor on it and blow up the water, then I don't have anything down that hole but a pipe for air. I just don't know how low the water table can be and still be able to get a head of water to the surface. Oh well, another thread someday.
how many feet? that plus size of pipe will determine CFM and pressure requirements. but if you are talking 120' or more then a soft start grundfos to a above ground tank might be in your future. especially if you can fill the tank during peak sun hours.
 
how many feet? that plus size of pipe will determine CFM and pressure requirements. but if you are talking 120' or more then a soft start grundfos to a above ground tank might be in your future. especially if you can fill the tank during peak sun hours.
Most of the wells around me are 300 to 400 ft. Four inch casing is the most likely scenario. I can't see drilling a 2" well that deep but I'll see what the well driller recommends. The water table here varies a lot so I'm not even going to guess. I did one of these many decades ago and put a 2" pipe inside the casing then a 1/2 inch pipe inside that for the air. The water table wasn't very deep and it put up a great head of water. Then just a holding tank, pump and pressure tank on the surface. There are some downsides though. The holding tank is hard to keep clean so probably some kind of chloring injection system. And they can be noisy if close to the house. Mine would be on the other side of the shop.

The grundfos is interesting. I'm guessing you still need a holding tank on the surface and a pressure tank and pump from there?
 
Most of the wells around me are 300 to 400 ft. Four inch casing is the most likely scenario. I can't see drilling a 2" well that deep but I'll see what the well driller recommends. The water table here varies a lot so I'm not even going to guess. I did one of these many decades ago and put a 2" pipe inside the casing then a 1/2 inch pipe inside that for the air. The water table wasn't very deep and it put up a great head of water. Then just a holding tank, pump and pressure tank on the surface. There are some downsides though. The holding tank is hard to keep clean so probably some kind of chloring injection system. And they can be noisy if close to the house. Mine would be on the other side of the shop.

The grundfos is interesting. I'm guessing you still need a holding tank on the surface and a pressure tank and pump from there?
I was assuming either a 4" or 6" casing and a 2" up-pipe with a check ball on the bottom to keep water going back down after pump shuts off. after that it depends upon your depth and a lot of other variables... note I am not a driller, but we drilled a couple in the 80's at my parents houses in rural Indiana. most f them were 120-150' depth to reach the "good water"
 
I thought deep fried food is REALLY popular in the states ?

I guess we don't know the meaning of out in the sticks lol , I live what is considered very rurally in the UK .... Within 20mins drive I've got 20 shops , hardware stores, restaurants, cafes, fast food places, a small airport . It's hard to imagine just how big America is.
I thought deep fried food is REALLY popular in the states ?

I guess we don't know the meaning of out in the sticks lol , I live what is considered very rurally in the UK .... Within 20mins drive I've got 20 shops , hardware stores, restaurants, cafes, fast food places, a small airport . It's hard to imagine just how big America is



Great fun they work best on kerosene (heating oil ?? ) not sure what you call it


Have you seen the afterburner controller the guy from Australia makes , well worth the money
The US is huge, my home state of Wyoming is bigger than the entire UK and thusly, food preferences are regional, much how Europe is, I’m sure.
 
I was assuming either a 4" or 6" casing and a 2" up-pipe with a check ball on the bottom to keep water going back down after pump shuts off. after that it depends upon your depth and a lot of other variables... note I am not a driller, but we drilled a couple in the 80's at my parents houses in rural Indiana. most f them were 120-150' depth to reach the "good water"

That's changed some in Indiana depending on where you are.

You might want to get below the rock cap down where I live, the water is still clean. Other places not so much...

Between industral farm run off, industal manufacturing run off, farm chemicals, etc. you really want the full test done.

I'm in the river bottoms, everything from all over the state winds up down here.
When I was about 6 years old, my grandpa took me to see the river ON FIRE it was so dirty, and all that is still in the sediments so shallow wells, like sand wells, are a bad idea in a lot of places.

I had the drillers go down to limestone, then we started looking for water since the bedrock is limestone here. It's 'Hard' water, but it's clean.

I also got an oversized well casing so I could have both a motorized pump and a hand pump... because you never know...

Just my luck, I spent a small fortune on a well, then hit the well head from the former tenants (from 40-45 years ago) with the mower... It's a shallower well and it's mineral water (coal fields around) but the garden, livestock, etc don't complain.
I had no idea there was a well on the property already, just clearing brush and mowing as I had time... and there it was.
 
That's changed some in Indiana depending on where you are.

You might want to get below the rock cap down where I live, the water is still clean. Other places not so much...

Between industral farm run off, industal manufacturing run off, farm chemicals, etc. you really want the full test done.

I'm in the river bottoms, everything from all over the state winds up down here.
When I was about 6 years old, my grandpa took me to see the river ON FIRE it was so dirty, and all that is still in the sediments so shallow wells, like sand wells, are a bad idea in a lot of places.

I had the drillers go down to limestone, then we started looking for water since the bedrock is limestone here. It's 'Hard' water, but it's clean.

I also got an oversized well casing so I could have both a motorized pump and a hand pump... because you never know...

Just my luck, I spent a small fortune on a well, then hit the well head from the former tenants (from 40-45 years ago) with the mower... It's a shallower well and it's mineral water (coal fields around) but the garden, livestock, etc don't complain.
I had no idea there was a well on the property already, just clearing brush and mowing as I had time... and there it was.
This place had a 6 inch well but has been capped or filled with concrete. The story I got was they were getting a lot of fine sand so they capped it. It sucks because I could have likely put a compressor rig on it and a pressure tank and pump on the surface and negated the sand issue. As far as I know there's no way to recover it, especially it it's concrete all the way to the bottom.
 
If deep, what do you want to bet the stuffed a plug and only filled some upper portion?
Start with a rotohammer, see what happens when you drill as deep as the flutes.
Maybe with flutes ground to clear on top and an extension, you could go deeper.
Or star drill. Available for air hammer, correct? Lots of air down a pipe to clean out as you progress?

No harm except lost time if you go in 20' and don't break through.
 
If deep, what do you want to bet the stuffed a plug and only filled some upper portion?
Start with a rotohammer, see what happens when you drill as deep as the flutes.
Maybe with flutes ground to clear on top and an extension, you could go deeper.
Or star drill. Available for air hammer, correct? Lots of air down a pipe to clean out as you progress?

No harm except lost time if you go in 20' and don't break through.
I've talked about doing that very thing and just never seem to get around to it. You're right - nothing to lose but a little time. It sure would be sweet if I could recover the thing. Worst case scenario I would have water for livestock and gardens, and in a jam I could always filter it and drink it if there's any problem. I suspect other then being hard and the sand there's nothing actually wrong with the water. I'm gonna do that. But maybe on a cooler day than today. I'm thinking October the way things have been here lately.
 
Interesting researching dishwashers. By and large they consume a lot of energy due to the fact they are a water heater. I had thought that since the dishwasher was plumbed into the hot water from the houses hot water tank that the heating element in the bottom of my dishwasher was only used during drying if cool dry was not selected. Seems they heat the water inside up to 155F or higher (depending on if high temp wash is selected) for sanitation requirements. Most of the so called efficient dishwashers play games (it is amazing how a few degrees can reduce a year's energy consumption for the Energy Star label) with how much they heat the water and the amount they heat.
What really helps is if the feed water is already piping hot. Most days we end up with excess solar, and it gets dumped into the hot water heater first until maxed out (and finally to A/C in summer, heat pump in winter). Since there's a fairly lengthy pipe between the HWH and dishwasher, we open the hot water spigot and wait for the scalding 140ºF water to arrive before starting the dishwasher.

Off grid solar and excessive running of a dishwasher can be problematic.
You're not wrong, and I'm sure it helps that our HWH is a hybrid. But I'm pretty comfortable with running A/C overnight in 3 bedrooms, as well as running a load of dishes on battery. Still typically wake up with at over 50% SoC. We never use the heated dry function, though!
 
What really helps is if the feed water is already piping hot.
I don't see how. The water is either heated by the water heater, or it's heated by the dishwasher, or a bit of both. Either way it'll be the same energy demand to raise a given volume of water to a given temperature.

My dishwasher doesn't even have a hot water inlet, and it is recommended to not connect it to a hot water supply as the supply connections are not rated for it.
 
I don't see how. The water is either heated by the water heater, or it's heated by the dishwasher, or a bit of both. Either way it'll be the same energy demand to raise a given volume of water to a given temperature.

Using electric water heater tank as a thermal battery. Dump load.

Would help with cycle time, too.
 
I've talked about doing that very thing and just never seem to get around to it. You're right - nothing to lose but a little time. It sure would be sweet if I could recover the thing. Worst case scenario I would have water for livestock and gardens, and in a jam I could always filter it and drink it if there's any problem. I suspect other then being hard and the sand there's nothing actually wrong with the water. I'm gonna do that. But maybe on a cooler day than today. I'm thinking October the way things have been here lately.

It was a lot of PVC pipe, but the well drillers said to build a bubble lift, air hose and PVC to the bottom, then 'T' in the air and the bubbles would lift sediment and it worked.

About 10 foot of silt, then I hit hard bottom. Wasn't fast, but I didn't have to do it all at once, and I probably should have used something bigger than a 3/4" PVC pipe and bigger compressor, but it's what I had.

The casing is too small to try and drill deeper, so if the water table drops I'm screwed, but it has a lot of standing water everytime I've checked it.

A bubble lift isn't efficient for supplying water, but it's handy for clearing silt/sand. In a pinch you could use a trash pump, let the water pool so the sand settles, then pump off the clean water.

With mine, it's battling lime. I should have got a water softener a long time ago, but I procrastinat...

I still have the 1998 Procrastinator's Club application laying around here, never got it sent in... ?
 
It was a lot of PVC pipe, but the well drillers said to build a bubble lift, air hose and PVC to the bottom, then 'T' in the air and the bubbles would lift sediment and it worked.

About 10 foot of silt, then I hit hard bottom. Wasn't fast, but I didn't have to do it all at once, and I probably should have used something bigger than a 3/4" PVC pipe and bigger compressor, but it's what I had.

The casing is too small to try and drill deeper, so if the water table drops I'm screwed, but it has a lot of standing water everytime I've checked it.

A bubble lift isn't efficient for supplying water, but it's handy for clearing silt/sand. In a pinch you could use a trash pump, let the water pool so the sand settles, then pump off the clean water.

With mine, it's battling lime. I should have got a water softener a long time ago, but I procrastinat...

I still have the 1998 Procrastinator's Club application laying around here, never got it sent in... ?
hey shitbird.. you are a goon :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 
I don't see how. The water is either heated by the water heater, or it's heated by the dishwasher, or a bit of both. Either way it'll be the same energy demand to raise a given volume of water to a given temperature.

My dishwasher doesn't even have a hot water inlet, and it is recommended to not connect it to a hot water supply as the supply connections are not rated for it.
If a hybrid water heater is being used, it would be more efficient than a heating coil in the dishwasher. It would depend on the COP of the water heater.

Would it amount to much? Probably not as much as one thinks, especially if the dishwasher isn't used daily.
 
What really helps is if the feed water is already piping hot. Most days we end up with excess solar, and it gets dumped into the hot water heater first until maxed out (and finally to A/C in summer, heat pump in winter). Since there's a fairly lengthy pipe between the HWH and dishwasher, we open the hot water spigot and wait for the scalding 140ºF water to arrive before starting the dishwasher.


...
I always open the hot water tap at the sink before starting the dishwasher so that the fill water is as hot as possible. But beyond that I had not really put much thought into the function of the machine.
 
I always open the hot water tap at the sink before starting the dishwasher so that the fill water is as hot as possible. But beyond that I had not really put much thought into the function of the machine.

I do the same thing, especially in winter when the hot water comes from the wood burner, not electric. Saves quite a bit of energy.
 
I don't see how. The water is either heated by the water heater, or it's heated by the dishwasher, or a bit of both. Either way it'll be the same energy demand to raise a given volume of water to a given temperature.
Just run the dishwasher at the same time, it's no different. You either dump it directly or indirectly.
The difference is the flexibility of a buffer--a dump load is there to absorb energy on demand, and in this case, give it back later when needed. When the hybrid heat pump is taken into consideration, my hot water heater effectively functions as a 8 kWh battery that only "costs" 2kWh to charge.

My point was simply that most days, we don't have to worry about running the dishwasher during sunny weather, or even daytime for that matter. While I'm very impressed by your consumption vs PV production chart, I doubt I could achieve it in my household. Shifting laundry and cooking to daytime (and only sunny weather in winter) hasn't exactly been easy for my family, so it's nice to have one less thing to worry about.


My dishwasher doesn't even have a hot water inlet, and it is recommended to not connect it to a hot water supply as the supply connections are not rated for it.
It's easy to forget that we're sharing a global forum. In the US, dishwashers are connected to hot water supply lines. When I lived abroad, I had to un-learn the hot water line purge step, and also remember to regularly add salt (!!).


If a hybrid water heater is being used, it would be more efficient than a heating coil in the dishwasher. It would depend on the COP of the water heater.

Would it amount to much? Probably not as much as one thinks, especially if the dishwasher isn't used daily.
In our house, it's used daily, at minimum. If my back-of-napkin estimate is close, we probably save close 0.5-1 kWh per load. It's also nice to cut down on those large current spikes.


I do the same thing, especially in winter when the hot water comes from the wood burner, not electric. Saves quite a bit of energy.
Care to share details of your wood-fired boiler setup? I'm impressed that you manage to run a dishwasher in winter in your location!
 
The difference is the flexibility of a buffer--a dump load is there to absorb energy on demand, and in this case, give it back later when needed. When the hybrid heat pump is taken into consideration, my hot water heater effectively functions as a 8 kWh battery that only "costs" 2kWh to charge.

My point was simply that most days, we don't have to worry about running the dishwasher during sunny weather, or even daytime for that matter. While I'm very impressed by your consumption vs PV production chart, I doubt I could achieve it in my household. Shifting laundry and cooking to daytime (and only sunny weather in winter) hasn't exactly been easy for my family, so it's nice to have one less thing to worry about.



It's easy to forget that we're sharing a global forum. In the US, dishwashers are connected to hot water supply lines. When I lived abroad, I had to un-learn the hot water line purge step, and also remember to regularly add salt (!!).



In our house, it's used daily, at minimum. If my back-of-napkin estimate is close, we probably save close 0.5-1 kWh per load. It's also nice to cut down on those large current spikes.



Care to share details of your wood-fired boiler setup? I'm impressed that you manage to run a dishwasher in winter in your location!
probably an OWB setup... outdoor water boiler. just a wood stove on steroids with a heat transfer loop in the middle of it.
 
If a hybrid water heater is being used, it would be more efficient than a heating coil in the dishwasher. It would depend on the COP of the water heater.
That is true. We have a big push for heat pump water heating here.

The better units are not hybrids, have separate compressors and water storage tank, and use CO2 for the refrigerant so they will work well below freezing. I guess hybrids are more common in colder climates, but here they are indicative of being cheap and less reliable. And I wouldn't consider a heat pump water heater much of a dump load, generally you use the timer controller built into the unit as it needs to operate on a fairly regular schedule to ensure hot water supply.
 
Excellent treatise on space heating in serious cold from up northand personal, thanks!

Quite a bit of interesting knowledge in this thread. Too bad it would be a challenge to find this info from a thread title search.

Like our extra solar capabilities, we keep a goodly amount of cash on hand for ‘rainy days’.
 
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About half way on this page: https://medium.com/@upnorthandoffgrid/6-heating-systems-5c5727c1607e

It's an indoor wood gasification boiler, coupled to a 3000L buffer.
We have been using a Tarm (made in Denmark) indoor wood gasification boiler with a 4500L buffer tank for almost 20 years. Rebuilt parts of the refractory at the beginning of the last heating season. That's something they don't tell you about.

During the normal part of winter I fire it once per week and on the coldest periods I fire it twice per week. We added a ground source heat pump 12 years ago but at the time we installed it there was no easy way to tie it into the radiant in floor heating system. I haven't looked for a year but there was is still no heat pump available in the US capable of producing enough hot water for space heating. Plenty of DHW options however.
 

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