First build this summer, Canada, VW T4 lwb, 48V 100Ah or 1x 48V 50Ah now and add another later too be smoother with my budget build?

[JohnD0h]

Look at the first post in page 2 to see what I'm looking for now! Thanks!

I'm in Canada.
First build this summer in a Volkswagen T4 long wheelbase, full time van-life, summer and cold winter.
I'm looking for cheap, simple as possible, NO solar panel, charge with EV public charger (7.2kW) and 48V car alternator, that I can also plug in camping site and 120V AC house.
Can I go now with 1x 48V 50Ah and add a second one later to help my budget build?
I need a 2000w inverter.
My van will be isolate and heat all the winter with a diesel heater.
Cooking and fridge will be on propane.
I don't want anything else than LiFePO4 Lithium Battery.
The 48v alternator will probably be a second alternator only for the 48v battery.

I'll probably use
NORJIN 48V 36V to 12V Step Down Transformer 360W 30A DC Voltage Converter with Fuse Waterproof Voltage Reducer Regulator for Truck Vehicle Car Boat Solar System from www.amazon.ca at CAD 36$ and free shipping.

I have access to
ECO-WORTHY 48V 50Ah Stackable LiFePO4 Battery from https://ca.eco-worthy.com/ for CAD 720$ with free shipping
and
Maple leaf 48v 100Ah Server Rack Beaver Deep Cycle Lithium Iron Phosphate Battery(LiFePO4 Battery) from https://solarpowerstore.ca/ look very similar to RUIXU.
and
LiTime 48V 100Ah Server Rack LiFePO4 Lithium Solar Battery from https://ca.litime.com/ with free shipping
and
RX-LFP48100 | 19" Rack Mounted 3U Module | UL1973 Certified | UL9540 pending from https://www.canada.ruixubattery.com/
All of 48V 100Ah are CAD 1800$

What do you think it's the best path for me?
Big thank to everyone that will help me doing it right the first time!

 

[justinm001]

What 48v alternator?

 

[JohnD0h]

I learn from the best!

 

[HarryN]

You are in a very cold climate. IMHO, there really are only two viable battery options for you.

Rolls or Lifeline AGMs. Rolls will continue to operate at temperatures lower than the Lifelines ~ ( -40 C ) vs ( -30 C) Northern's could also work.

Lifelines are better at pumping out power to feed inverters by a lot, so fewer batteries are required. Nominal 6 each size 27 or 31s vs 4 to run your 2 000 watt inverter. You can start with 2 batteries to have 24 volt and this will support 800 - 1 000 watts, depending on which brand you purchase.

Example would be GPL-27T or the GPL-31XT size. If you have room, those XTs are pretty powerful.

Many people disagree with me on this, but in Quebec in the winter you really need the power to not go off and loose heat.

Just one night with the heat off and inside van temperatures at less than 0 C and the Li batteries will not be able to accept a charge, and that is really inconvenient.

I am not sure if your VW T4 can really even support a 48 volt alternator. Finding a 24 volt options seems more feasible. Setting up a 48 volt alternator is not cheap or simple, especially with Li batteries. 24 volt with AGMs is much easier and less hassle.

The typical van setup uses a DC refrigerator, fuel heater, lights, etc and all of those are available native in 24 volt. Relatively few are available in 48 volt. Really annoying because I am a big 48 volt fan.

In Canada, I would be tempted to use propane for heat and cooking, especially in the winter.

I still think that you should carry a solar panel along, perhaps 200 watts to help support the trickle charging.

 

[JohnD0h]

You are in a very cold climate. IMHO, there really are only two viable battery options for you.

Rolls or Lifeline AGMs. Rolls will continue to operate at temperatures lower than the Lifelines ~ ( -40 C ) vs ( -30 C) Northern's could also work.

Lifelines are better at pumping out power to feed inverters by a lot, so fewer batteries are required. Nominal 6 each size 27 or 31s vs 4 to run your 2 000 watt inverter. You can start with 2 batteries to have 24 volt and this will support 800 - 1 000 watts, depending on which brand you purchase.

Example would be GPL-27T or the GPL-31XT size. If you have room, those XTs are pretty powerful.

Many people disagree with me on this, but in Quebec in the winter you really need the power to not go off and loose heat.

Just one night with the heat off and inside van temperatures at less than 0 C and the Li batteries will not be able to accept a charge, and that is really inconvenient.

I am not sure if your VW T4 can really even support a 48 volt alternator. Finding a 24 volt options seems more feasible. Setting up a 48 volt alternator is not cheap or simple, especially with Li batteries. 24 volt with AGMs is much easier and less hassle.

The typical van setup uses a DC refrigerator, fuel heater, lights, etc and all of those are available native in 24 volt. Relatively few are available in 48 volt. Really annoying because I am a big 48 volt fan.

In Canada, I would be tempted to use propane for heat and cooking, especially in the winter.

I still think that you should carry a solar panel along, perhaps 200 watts to help support the trickle charging.

Thank for your answer!

My van will be isolate and heat all the winter with a diesel heater.
Cooking and fridge will be on propane.
I don't want anything else than LiFePO4 Lithium Battery.
The 48v alternator will be a second alternator only for the 48v battery.

 

[RV8R]

Thank for your answer!

My van will be isolate and heat all the winter with a diesel heater.
Cooking and fridge will be on propane.
I don't want anything else than LiFePO4 Lithium Battery.
The 48v alternator will be a second alternator only for the 48v battery.

Hi @JohnD0h

I guess you want what you want & are experienced enough to sort it out.

So have you done a “Load Calculation Spreadsheet” / “Energy Audit” ? If so, if you post that here, I can be of more help.

I see you have 4 battery choices, but without knowing the other system components, you are asking the forum members for opinions or design help only identifying part of your intentions. The forum can be helpful to you, but the more info you provide the better the help might be.

So “What is the best path for you”? ,,, IMO, slow down & perform as much of a complete design as you are capable of, post that, & get that design vetted here.

12vdc / 24vdc / 48vdc ,,, Why are you choosing 48vdc in such a small RV “VW T-4” ?

 

[OffGridForGood]

With most of the big energy uses on diesel or propane, what are the electrical loads you are planning to operate?
What is the peak maximum kW output?
What will the daily load total energy kWh be?
The Diesel heaters need some electrical for operation, I have one of these heaters and IIRC it runns (after start up) on 150W or so (? not too sure)
So that is one critical load in your system, what other electrical will you need in a normal day?
You can definitely start with one battery and add later, in parallel. The main decision is to pick 24 or 48volts and design the system from there.
LFP cells need to be above 0C for charging, they can discharge lower than 0C but we try to avoid this situation if we can, cells will have reduced capacity below 0C.
Most of the members will say, 12v up to 2kW, 24v up to 3kW, 48v above these.

 

[HarryN]

I like to keep the current in any wire to no more than 100 amps, so 24 volt can support a 2 kW inverter.

Perhaps start by looking at a few critical things:

1) What is the recommended charge current of your desired battery, both initial and ultimate. Not max - recommended.

That is the current rating of the alternator that you can use to charge the battery. With Li this needs to really be paid attention to. With AGM it does not matter as it will self limit.

2) Alternator - can you even buy the desired alternator to fit in your vehicle. A good quality, 48 volt alternator, with the external controller and pulley, is a nearly $3K line item. Then it still needs to be installed and if you hire this out, can hit another $1K.

If your existing vehicle alternator is a decent size, or can be upgraded to be a HD version, you can buy a DC - DC charger like a sterling to charge 12, 24 or 48 volt batteries to get started. This is much cheaper and easier to implement.

_____________-

The smallest / controlled amps 48 volt alternator that I know of is 60 amps and that might be 4x the rating of a single 50 amp battery from those suppliers you mentioned. Don't fall for the idea that you can really just set the controller to a lower amps rating and everything will be fine, because I know first hand that this really does not work out.

 

[Brucey]

Just be aware those 48V 50Ah batteries have a 50A BMS, so you need to keep the loads below that level. Once you add the second you'll be able to increase your loads to 100A if needed.

 

[JohnD0h]

Big thanks to everyone for your answer.

I'll try to answer to all of them as fast as I can.
Some answers to start:
First, I have choose 48V because the video of DIY Solar Power with Will Prowse, that I have put in this post, and that I found this logic to go with 48V. But I'm open to step back to 12V if it's the option to go with.
From what I see in your answer, the chance that I get back to 12V is quite possible, due to the fact that 95% of the information available on the web is about 12V system!
The goal of my post is to have help to design my electrical system and be able to:
have a cheap, simple as possible, NO solar panel, charge with EV public charger (7.2kW) and a car alternator, that I can also plug in camping site and 120V AC house. Cause my strength are most on the side of "mechanical building" and my weakness are on the side of the electrical system.
The battery that I say that I have access to, it's because I'm in Canada and I just want to inform you of what is available here at a reasonable price and the store who have them.
For the 48V alternator from what I have quickly look, it was around CAD 500$, and with my technical engineering background in fab, it'll be me who will do the majority of the work and electrical need to use in the 12V was near to this too.
I have start to do my a “Load Calculation Spreadsheet” / “Energy Audit” but it's not complete cause I'm still in the planning and not everything electrical is buy and choose!
I estimate my need for the inverter will be above 2000W so I have choose it, and my daily energy consumption should be around 2Kwh. But for the time of the build and the first years, I'll access to a 120V AC house connection, so if I can build my system by step to smooth on my budget, so if I can go with less battery to start and add more the second year without hurting the first buy battery I'll choose that path, my end goal is to be around 5Kwh in total of battery or a little more to have more than 2 days of autonomy!

Thank again to everyone for the good help. I'll go back to the drawing-board do some of my homework, and come back to you with my new ideas that you have inspired to me!

 

[highwaypirate]

You are in a very cold climate. IMHO, there really are only two viable battery options for you.

I would have to kindly disagree with you on this... I'm also full-time out of my SUV in Manitoba (-30c is not unusual) and I have two LiFePO4 batteries on board. If you can keep them above 10c they will perform very well. Despite the first-gen CR-V's not having any sort of insulation, my 5kw diesel heater keeps them above 15c on the coldest nights, although the 12V heating towels definitely help with things.

 

[JohnD0h]

I would have to kindly disagree with you on this... I'm also full-time out of my SUV in Manitoba (-30c is not unusual) and I have two LiFePO4 batteries on board. If you can keep them above 10c they will perform very well. Despite the first-gen CR-V's not having any sort of insulation, my 5kw diesel heater keeps them above 15c on the coldest nights, although the 12V heating towels definitely help with things.

Then I'll be in the "south" of Quebec most of the time in the winter, where the climate is even milder than in Manitoba!

 

[JohnD0h]

I think that I’ll go with a LiTime 12V 200Ah Plus Lithium LiFePO4 Battery, Built-in 200A BMS, 4000+ Deep Cycles, Max 2560W Power Output, FCC&UL Certificates, 10-Year Lifetime, Perfect for RV, Solar, Marine, Off-Grid at CAD 850$ on www.amazon.ca with free delivery and add a second one next year in parallel with a buss bar…
And add to it a good but cheap 2000W inverter.

My main concern is about what I need to add to my system to be able to charge my setup with the EV public charger at 7.2kW, that I can also plug in camping site (240V) and 120V AC house?

If later I choose to add solar I’ll go with a commercial panel around 400W and the solar MPPT charge controller need for it, but due to the fact that I’m in Canada I don’t think that it’s cost effective, I need to do more research and to kept the cost down for now that it’s not in my plan for the first year.

 

[highwaypirate]

I have a couple of PowerQueen batteries (I've heard they're identical to the LiTime) and have found to set your CC absorption voltage to 14.1V or lower, otherwise the bms will spike up to 16V if the absorption stage is set to the recommended 14.4V. I was explained by other members this happens on a few batteries since they didn't have a proper cell balance from the factory. Aside from that, these pre-builts perform extremely well, and I put mine through a very difficult environment.

For being in Canada, over-panel as much as you can. I have two 175 watt Renogys on my roof (I look like a space satellite when looking from above) and I have a 200 watt panel that slides on bars just underneath my roof liner. With all 550 watts I can get a full charge by noon easily... but on overcast days, its a trickle charge.

 

[JohnD0h]

I have a couple of PowerQueen batteries (I've heard they're identical to the LiTime) and have found to set your CC absorption voltage to 14.1V or lower, otherwise the bms will spike up to 16V if the absorption stage is set to the recommended 14.4V. I was explained by other members this happens on a few batteries since they didn't have a proper cell balance from the factory. Aside from that, these pre-builts perform extremely well, and I put mine through a very difficult environment.

For being in Canada, over-panel as much as you can. I have two 175 watt Renogys on my roof (I look like a space satellite when looking from above) and I have a 200 watt panel that slides on bars just underneath my roof liner. With all 550 watts I can get a full charge by noon easily... but on overcast days, its a trickle charge.

Another reason why I was not sure about the solar, was the fact that I want to keep it as stealth as possible, but you make me think seriously at it since you tell me that in your case it’s cost effective.

Can I ask you what are the specs of the batteries you have?

Thank for your comment and answer, it help me a lot!

 

[highwaypirate]

I also wanted to go stealth... but I quickly came to the conclusion that standing out while at a rest area or a truck stop in order to get more hydro was well worth the trade-off lol (also, I don't think Bullwinkle would care how the CR-V looks in the wilderness).

I have two systems; each one houses PowerQueen's 100AH Mini. While the batteries have been performing without issues (aside from the absorb voltage mentioned above), I have heard many users recommend prismatic cells found in regular-sized batteries over the pouch cells that are found in the Minis (pouch cells are smaller and can hold the same capacity). Nonetheless, its entirely up to the installers preferences.

On brighter news, my boss actually has 4 of the batteries you've mentioned, and I can gladly say they have been working very good for the last 18 months. He also had to set his absorb voltage to 14.0, but the mere difference between a full SOC is barely noticeable. An added benefit I've found to only go up to 14.0V is that LiFePO4 cells fair better when they're not completely topped-off... although that bit of speculation has and will cause debate upon some users.

 

[JohnD0h]

I also wanted to go stealth... but I quickly came to the conclusion that standing out while at a rest area or a truck stop in order to get more hydro was well worth the trade-off lol (also, I don't think Bullwinkle would care how the CR-V looks in the wilderness).

I have two systems; each one houses PowerQueen's 100AH Mini. While the batteries have been performing without issues (aside from the absorb voltage mentioned above), I have heard many users recommend prismatic cells found in regular-sized batteries over the pouch cells that are found in the Minis (pouch cells are smaller and can hold the same capacity). Nonetheless, its entirely up to the installers preferences.

On brighter news, my boss actually has 4 of the batteries you've mentioned, and I can gladly say they have been working very good for the last 18 months. He also had to set his absorb voltage to 14.0, but the mere difference between a full SOC is barely noticeable. An added benefit I've found to only go up to 14.0V is that LiFePO4 cells fair better when they're not completely topped-off... although that bit of speculation has and will cause debate upon some users.

Thank for the idea of going with 2 separate systems!
I’ll think at it now in my electrical system design and when it’ll be the time to add more batteries!

About the fact of being stealth as possible, it’s more when it come time to sleep in town to avoid “the knock”!

And also a big thank you to have share with me about that I’ll probably need to adjust my absorb voltage to 14.1 or lower!

And you make me having info’s that really make a difference to get my build be right the first time!

 

[highwaypirate]

I'm most certainly glad I can help! Although with being on the road since I was 2 years old, there is no chance on getting the perfect build the first time. I had thought that when I got my first setup (50w mono paired to a 18AH AGM lol), a mobile dwelling and all solar systems always improve over time.

Feel free to PM me with any questions you may have; I may not be the smartest when it comes to the scientific bits, but I have a life time of knowledge on the road

 

[JohnD0h]

I'm most certainly glad I can help! Although with being on the road since I was 2 years old, there is no chance on getting the perfect build the first time. I had thought that when I got my first setup (50w mono paired to a 18AH AGM lol), a mobile dwelling and all solar systems always improve over time.

Feel free to PM me with any questions you may have; I may not be the smartest when it comes to the scientific bits, but I have a life time of knowledge on the road

I 100% agree with you that my build will be everything but perfect.

My goal is more about getting the things done right the first time to get my build the more possible cost effective!

 

[Detritalgeo]

Just got a Maple Leaf "Beaver" 3U pack. I got the heated version but there is no markings to say it has heaters installed.. It's identical to the Ruixu and can even use the same BMS monitoring software.

Maybe this heater version is more appropriate for your setup? The 3U form factor is good use of spaceand can be used in vertical orientation as well..

The heaters should kick on as long as a cell is below 5c but warmer than -25c..