"Ford secures battery supplies for 600,000 EVs a year from 2023"

[chess-equality]

"It will also start using LiFePO4 cells in the Mustang Mach-E and F-150 Lightning."

Ford secures battery supplies for 600,000 EVs a year from 2023

It will also start using LiFePO4 cells in the Mustang Mach-E and F-150 Lightning.

arstechnica.com

 

[Cyanlite]

Great, I can finally get myself an MME or F150.

I'd sworn to never allow an NMC in a garage attached to a house where my kids sleep. I feel much safer with LFP even at the expense of range.

In a few years, we should be getting used LFP packs in the 100kWh sizes from these vehicles. Even with 20% degradation, they will still be excellent energy storage systems of off-grid DIY solar systems.

 

[chess-equality]

In a few years, we should be getting used LFP packs in the 100kWh sizes from these vehicles. Even with 20% degradation, they will still be excellent energy storage systems of off-grid DIY solar systems.

A brewing sub-market, and the possibilities are endless.

Hopefully it will bring a semblance of a LiFePO4 supply chain nearer, rather than shipping it half way across the globe.

Just wondering why the big automotive companies hadn't jumped into LiFePO4 until recently.

 

[A.Justice]

In a few years, we should be getting used LFP packs in the 100kWh sizes from these vehicles. Even with 20% degradation, they will still be excellent energy storage systems of off-grid DIY solar systems.

That would be a good business model.

Replace packs every XXX thousand miles, before they get too trashed, and have them certified for residential or commercial energy storage. Car companies could make a little extra money selling (or installing) the used packs, and in a perfect world they might pass some of that savings on to the consumer for the replacement pack in their EV.

 

[niktak11]

A brewing sub-market, and the possibilities are endless.

Hopefully it will bring a semblance of a LiFePO4 supply chain nearer, rather than shipping it half way across the globe.

Just wondering why the big automotive companies hadn't jumped into LiFePO4 until recently.

Because their energy density was bad. It's still not as good now but it has improved by quite a bit. Also cycle life isn't as important for most vehicles. 1000 cycles to 80% in a car with a 350 mile range is still over 300k miles.

 

[curiouscarbon]

less energy density vs alternatives

lack of long life priority in drivetrain/battery

reasons for less aggressive LiFePO4 chemistry adoption in automotive applications

 

[chess-equality]

Because their energy density was bad. It's still not as good now but it has improved by quite a bit. Also cycle life isn't as important for most vehicles. 1000 cycles to 80% in a car with a 350 mile range is still over 300k miles.

less energy density vs alternatives

lack of long life priority in drivetrain/battery

reasons for less aggressive LiFePO4 chemistry adoption in automotive applications

Someone at Ford is a DIYer and will pass to us these LiFePO4s! ?

 

[Ampster]

Just wondering why the big automotive companies hadn't jumped into LiFePO4 until recently.

I think the answer is energy density. That is compounded by the manufacturers interpretation that a lot of people have range anxiety. The reality is that most EV owners do not have range anxiety. Once someone owns an EV and realizes how easy it is to charge at home range anxiety is non existent for day to day use. On trips is is just a matter of planning stops to charge.

 

[dirt diggler]

I think the answer is energy density. That is compounded by the manufacturers interpretation that a lot of people have range anxiety. The reality is that most EV owners do not have range anxiety. Once someone owns an EV and realizes how easy it is to charge at home range anxiety is non existent for day to day use. On trips is is just a matter of planning stops to charge.

I think it's mainly non EV owners that suffer from range anxiety, an ecuse to poo poo the inevitable

 

[Ampster]

I think it's mainly non EV owners that suffer from range anxiety,

Yes, I think the decision makers are non EV owners.

 

[SparkyJJO]

I like the idea of being able to fill the tank and go on my merry way in 5 min vs sitting for 30-60 min at a time, not worrying about using heat cutting my range way down, etc.

Electric cars have their place but to think they can replace an ICE car for the majority of people in this country in the next few years is a pipe dream.

And don't get me started about the fake "green" side of things - mining this stuff is hardly a green endeavor. So bad that enviros won't let the US mine our own resources and the Biden admin delayed some stuff by 20 years.

Not to mention our already overloaded grid that has no chance to support an explosion of EVs.

Solar is awesome but to try to run a whole country off of it (and wind) is an exercise in futility.

 

[Danke]

Range anxiety, oh boy, yeah, that’s it!

A F-150 just got a whole 85 miles before out of juice pulling a 3 ton trailer.

My brother had a EV Mustang, traded it in after 6 months. Run the heater here in MN and range is low.

 

[niktak11]

I like the idea of being able to fill the tank and go on my merry way in 5 min vs sitting for 30-60 min at a time, not worrying about using heat cutting my range way down, etc.

Electric cars have their place but to think they can replace an ICE car for the majority of people in this country in the next few years is a pipe dream.

And don't get me started about the fake "green" side of things - mining this stuff is hardly a green endeavor. So bad that enviros won't let the US mine our own resources and the Biden admin delayed some stuff by 20 years.

Not to mention our already overloaded grid that has no chance to support an explosion of EVs.

Solar is awesome but to try to run a whole country off of it (and wind) is an exercise in futility.

The amount of time I've waited to fill up in the last 4 years that I had my EV is a tiny fraction of how long I would have waited if I still had an ICE. And I've never worried about using heat or AC lol

 

[SparkyJJO]

The amount of time I've waited to fill up in the last 4 years that I had my EV is a tiny fraction of how long I would have waited if I still had an ICE. And I've never worried about using heat or AC lol

But where do you live? Gonna use that heat a lot here in Ohio. Goodbye 25-50% of your range.

I rarely have had to wait at a gas station, and even in the rare handful of times I did over the last 18 years it was still less time than an EV charge takes.

 

[Danke]

The amount of time I've waited to fill up in the last 4 years that I had my EV is a tiny fraction of how long I would have waited if I still had an ICE. And I've never worried about using heat or AC lol

Wait ’till there are more EVs on the road lining up to charge.

 

[niktak11]

But where do you live? Gonna use that heat a lot here in Ohio. Goodbye 25-50% of your range.

I rarely have had to wait at a gas station, and even in the rare handful of times I did over the last 18 years it was still less time than an EV charge takes.

PNW. I use the heat a lot but the difference is small even with my older EV with resistive heating. Newer EVs like the model Y have heat pumps so heating uses even less.

 

[Danke]

I’d like hybrids to have larger capacity batteries, so for day to day driving one wouldn’t usually need the gas engine to fire up.


Here is something interesting Ford is looking into: https://insideevs.com/news/446777/ford-f-150-ev-toolbox-disguised-generator/

 

[Ampster]

Not to mention our already overloaded grid that has no chance to support an explosion of EVs.

Ha, it looks like Crypto mining is a big problem in Texas in terms of overloading the grid since crypto mining runs 24/7. I charge my EVs from solar during the days most of the time. Before a trip I might charge at night when there is plenty of capacity on the grid in California. My road trips are during the day when there is also a lot of capacity. I am not worried about an explosion of EVs. There are still a lot of people like you that are holding out. The adoption has gone from a trickle to a lot more but the real limit will be the manufacturers ability to ramp up battery production.

 

[turbo6bar]

I like the idea of being able to fill the tank and go on my merry way in 5 min vs sitting for 30-60 min at a time, not worrying about using heat cutting my range way down, etc.

Electric cars have their place but to think they can replace an ICE car for the majority of people in this country in the next few years is a pipe dream.

Where has anyone, government agency, or talking head suggest we are going to replace ICE cars for the majority in the next few years?

And don't get me started about the fake "green" side of things - mining this stuff is hardly a green endeavor. So bad that enviros won't let the US mine our own resources and the Biden admin delayed some stuff by 20 years.

Let's not ignore the wars to stabilize the Middle East and fossil fuel spills that devastate environments. Regardless of form of propulsion, there IS a cost to the environment.

Not to mention our already overloaded grid that has no chance to support an explosion of EVs.

Solar is awesome but to try to run a whole country off of it (and wind) is an exercise in futility.

Not to mention an oligopoly amongst oil producers that has most of the world at it's mercy.

You will eat the shiet sandwich and love it.

I have a Chevy Bolt that is used daily for rental property duty. I can pull a small trailer, making it super versatile. I still maintain and keep a Ford Ranger diesel and a Dodge 2500 diesel, but they are so rarely used. With diesel prices where they are, the Bolt is massively cheaper to fuel. It isn't perfect for every driver, but that's why we have choice. I think EVs are a great way to give the Middle East and Russia the middle finger. We can build the cars and batteries here, keep American jobs, AND we get to decide how we will produce electricity. No one has ever posited we will run out of electricity. The real issue is what means we will use to create electricity. We control that decision, as opposed to some sheik in Saudi Arabia or Qatar. What is bad about that?

It gets tiring seeing binary arguments.

 

[73powerstroke]

I like the idea of being able to fill the tank and go on my merry way in 5 min vs sitting for 30-60 min at a time, not worrying about using heat cutting my range way down, etc.

Electric cars have their place but to think they can replace an ICE car for the majority of people in this country in the next few years is a pipe dream.

And don't get me started about the fake "green" side of things - mining this stuff is hardly a green endeavor. So bad that enviros won't let the US mine our own resources and the Biden admin delayed some stuff by 20 years.

Not to mention our already overloaded grid that has no chance to support an explosion of EVs.

Solar is awesome but to try to run a whole country off of it (and wind) is an exercise in futility.

I saw at least 5 tesla cars on the side of the road yesterday broken down in the 112° heat of Phoenix off the 101 coming from gilbert az. I wonder if the heat is causing problems. I've never seen this many ev vehicles stranded. These people were out of the car on cellphones, and looked frantic. All looked not happy. So I don't think they were pulled over in sketchy spots for no reason.

 

[SparkyJJO]

Where has anyone, government agency, or talking head suggest we are going to replace ICE cars for the majority in the next few years?

Have you heard the resident goons in DC lately?

Let's not ignore the wars to stabilize the Middle East and fossil fuel spills that devastate environments. Regardless of form of propulsion, there IS a cost to the environment.

Too many people miss this fact. Glad you pointed it out.

Not to mention an oligopoly amongst oil producers that has most of the world at it's mercy.

You will eat the shiet sandwich and love it.

I have a Chevy Bolt that is used daily for rental property duty. I can pull a small trailer, making it super versatile. I still maintain and keep a Ford Ranger diesel and a Dodge 2500 diesel, but they are so rarely used. With diesel prices where they are, the Bolt is massively cheaper to fuel. It isn't perfect for every driver, but that's why we have choice. I think EVs are a great way to give the Middle East and Russia the middle finger. We can build the cars and batteries here, keep American jobs, AND we get to decide how we will produce electricity. No one has ever posited we will run out of electricity. The real issue is what means we will use to create electricity. We control that decision, as opposed to some sheik in Saudi Arabia or Qatar. What is bad about that?

It gets tiring seeing binary arguments.

I did say electric cars have their place. It isn't a binary argument, yes or no. The political elites want to try to force something unreasonable on the masses, forcing everyone to use the same thing (EVs) when we simply cannot.

Side note - if we ever got a property that needs a big mower to manage, I'd love to do an electric zero turn with LFP conversion. And if my weed eater ever needs replaced, electric is the way I want to go. Almost went electric on the push mower a couple years back when the old gas powered died, but the one I wanted was not available yet and the one that was just missed a few features, so I bought a gas Honda.

An EV is just so not practical where I live now nor where we may move to. Not to mention I couldn't even afford the darn thing to begin with.

 

[73powerstroke]

Have you heard the resident goons in DC lately?



Too many people miss this fact. Glad you pointed it out.



I did say electric cars have their place. It isn't a binary argument, yes or no. The political elites want to try to force something unreasonable on the masses, forcing everyone to use the same thing (EVs) when we simply cannot.

Side note - if we ever got a property that needs a big mower to manage, I'd love to do an electric zero turn with LFP conversion. And if my weed eater ever needs replaced, electric is the way I want to go. Almost went electric on the push mower a couple years back when the old gas powered died, but the one I wanted was not available yet and the one that was just missed a few features, so I bought a gas Honda.

An EV is just so not practical where I live now nor where we may move to. Not to mention I couldn't even afford the darn thing to begin with.

Yeah I can't afford a tesla or whatever and I need a truck and I don't have time to wait.
If I could afford one I would just for leisure. And charge it off solar only

 

[LittleLebowski]

Both my wife and I drive Tesla and when we are on the road our charging time is as most 25-30 mins after driving 2-3 hours. We combine those stops with lunch/dinner or just taking a rest and/or read latest news or emails. We never thinks or believe the time we wait for charging as wasted time.
Most of the time the charging stops are just enough to go to the restroom and stretch the legs.

Speaking as a WY native, I will bet you’re not straying far from interstates and certain cities in Wyoming.

 

[73powerstroke]

Speaking as a WY native, I will bet you’re not straying far from interstates and certain cities in Wyoming.

I would be hard pressed in northern az to drive how I want witha ev

 

[SparkyJJO]

It boils down to this.

1. There is no one size fits all for vehicles or vehicle types. What is perfect for one person is totally useless for another.

2. There is environmental impact in literally everything we do. Pretending that an EV is somehow rainbows and unicorns isn't realistic at all.

3. Let the market decide! There's plenty of room for all kinds of stuff (back at point 1). Let people buy and drive what works for THEM.