Generator gods, purchase advice sought.

[OffGridInTheCity]

Can you try and direct some of the cooling air flow from the generator towards the exhaust pipes?

Silica based muffler cement resists high heat and would seal threads but is brittle and rigid exhaust pipes tend to vibrate off and break.

Flexible metal exhaust pipe is the solution even if it requires a size adaptor. Suggest you try a marine place, they usually carry high quality flexible metal exhaust pipes as used for the marine and truck diesel heater exhaust , some are double wall for safety, this type of 1" stainless steel flex exhaust tubing is available on Amazon as seen at the link below:

Diesel Heater Exhaust Tubing

Thank you for these ideas - I'll order some of this flexible tubing and see if I can adapt it.

I tried some searches / orders on 1" ID exhaust pipe but they were >1.0" in actuality and I couldn't squeeze properly to 1". Tried some adapters as @Supervstech suggested and same problem - ID was not as advertised. But I'll try you're suggestion - at least it looks cheap!

 

[ElectricIslander]

Just as a safety note - Although the 1" metal tubing for diesel heaters is the right size, it is not really designed for the vibration from a small engine, please be aware of the possibility of it breaking from vibration fatigue. Diesel heaters don't really vibrate that much.

While thinking about your situation, I was originally thinking of the heavier wall flexible sections of automotive exhaust pipe that you can buy at car parts places (bellows construction). That is likely designed to resist vibration better but would be difficult to find in 1".

 

[ChrisG]

I'm now in the process of making another major update to my systems which will have to include a revisit on the generator aspect. It will need to be capable of providing 240V/60A+ for charging & passthrough power. That will certainly bring a few new challenges hehehe...

With the smaller gennies, even like the 4650W Champion Inverter I am presently using, it's really best not to pull too much. I use my Inverter/Charger set to 80A Charge for my 24V Bank, this is pulling 120V/23A +/-1,2A (2700-2850W) from the L5:30 Plug which leaves enough to handle the Fridge or Well pump start surges. I have tried to use more power but I felt the genny was struggling too much and not worth it. I do have an Advantage with the Samlex Inverter, it does compensate for the surges from the battery bank when needed and that does reduce generator load stress quite a bit, not all Inverter/Chargers or AIO's can do this, especially the budget ones. You really have to UPSIZE the Inverter Generators to make sure that you are pulling from the "Running Watts" range when charging your battery systems while leaving a bit of room for other things that are running on the system.

Steve

@Steve_S Wondering what you ended up using for a new generator. I just posted a new thread about a dead 240v. Engine starts but won't power anything. Anyway no where to buy a 240v locally at the moment but plenty of 120v available, but need 240. Any thoughts on using a autotransformer or step-up transformer to 240 split phase powered from any 120v inverter generator?

 

[Steve_S]

@Steve_S Wondering what you ended up using for a new generator. I just posted a new thread about a dead 240v. Engine starts but won't power anything. Anyway no where to buy a 240v locally at the moment but plenty of 120v available, but need 240. Any thoughts on using a autotransformer or step-up transformer to 240 split phase powered from any 120v inverter generator?

You really don't want to "bodge" a solution together by using an auto-transformer to make 240V for Charging. A Generator with 240V output IF your Inverter/Charger or AIO can take 240V as AC input.

I will however recommend Champion Generators which IMO are just as good as a Honda Brand. I have a large 9000W "Construction" genny that is now 10 years old with 1000's of hours which has had a very tough life and has run in -30C to +40C temps, I have used that in-field during construction running compressor, table saws & the like. Proper maintenance with 0W30 Synthetic Oil only and still starts on the 1st pull (battery lasted 5 years and haven't bothered to replace it, starts easier manually actually. For 4 years I've used the previously mentioned 4650W Inverter model from Champion for lighter fieldwork as well as for charging my battery bank vis my Samlex EVO Inverter/Charger and that has also been as reliable, I think it has about 300 hours on it and 1st pull start as well. Very clean and consistent power comes from it.

Champion is great product and if I need another generator (not likely) it will be a Champion again.
BTW: I had the Big Genny for a long time but before I bought the Champion Inverter Genny, I burnt up a King Canada 3KW model and an "Energizer labeled" 3kw Inverter (Not same as Battery Company) models - That was a tad over $3000 in "Education Costs".

BTW: Field-Work; I am remote & rural in the Canadian Arboreal Forest with acreage and I do not have extension cords that can cross acres of land.

 

[ChrisG]

You really don't want to "bodge" a solution together by using an auto-transformer to make 240V for Charging. A Generator with 240V output IF your Inverter/Charger or AIO can take 240V as AC input.

I will however recommend Champion Generators which IMO are just as good as a Honda Brand. I have a large 9000W "Construction" genny that is now 10 years old with 1000's of hours which has had a very tough life and has run in -30C to +40C temps, I have used that in-field during construction running compressor, table saws & the like. Proper maintenance with 0W30 Synthetic Oil only and still starts on the 1st pull (battery lasted 5 years and haven't bothered to replace it, starts easier manually actually. For 4 years I've used the previously mentioned 4650W Inverter model from Champion for lighter fieldwork as well as for charging my battery bank vis my Samlex EVO Inverter/Charger and that has also been as reliable, I think it has about 300 hours on it and 1st pull start as well. Very clean and consistent power comes from it.

Champion is great product and if I need another generator (not likely) it will be a Champion again.
BTW: I had the Big Genny for a long time but before I bought the Champion Inverter Genny, I burnt up a King Canada 3KW model and an "Energizer labeled" 3kw Inverter (Not same as Battery Company) models - That was a tad over $3000 in "Education Costs".

BTW: Field-Work; I am remote & rural in the Canadian Arboreal Forest with acreage and I do not have extension cords that can cross acres of land.

@Steve_S Thanks for the reply. This 8k unit is the smallest 240v inverter generator Champion makes, but no where to be found on line or in store (https://www.championpowerequipment....-8500-watt-dual-fuel-inverter-with-co-shield/). Really only need 5k and need it for both battery charging and other 240v work. Want inverter type for clean power, sound levels, and lower fuel consumption when not only charging batteries. I have about 30 acres of mountain terrain at my cabin and there are a few 240v wells on the property that I use with generator. I too understand the no extension cords. I see that GenMax makes a 6k and 7k 240v generator but reviews are terrible. May give Champion a call Monday and see what’s up with units.

This is the reason I was thinking 120v inverter/generator->transformer->240v would be ideal.

 

[Steve_S]

@Steve_S Thanks for the reply. This 8k unit is the smallest 240v inverter generator Champion makes, but no where to be found on line or in store (https://www.championpowerequipment....-8500-watt-dual-fuel-inverter-with-co-shield/). Really only need 5k and need it for both battery charging and other 240v work. Want inverter type for clean power, sound levels, and lower fuel consumption when not only charging batteries. I have about 30 acres of mountain terrain at my cabin and there are a few 240v wells on the property that I use with generator. I too understand the no extension cords. I see that GenMax makes a 6k and 7k 240v generator but reviews are terrible. May give Champion a call Monday and see what’s up with units.

This is the reason I was thinking 120v inverter/generator->transformer->240v would be ideal.

The genny you linked to is USA only, they have different models for Canada. The biggest one available in Canada is 5500W with dual fuel and it does not have 240V.

I am only using my Inverter Gennies L5:30 (120V/30A) to feed my Samlex EVO, which is set to charge my 24V Bank @ 80A. That draws around 26A +/- a bit as it floats a tad from that 120V line. It gives a very clean & smooth 120V @ 60Hz regardless of load even when passthrough pushed it to the edge.

 

[42OhmsPA]

I've been beyond happy with my WEN generator. I did add a magnetic drain plug, hour meter and run quality oil.
I was also happy with my champions I picked up on clearance at tractor supply, they were to small so I sold them for a profit.

 

[ChrisG]

I've been beyond happy with my WEN generator. I did add a magnetic drain plug, hour meter and run quality oil.
I was also happy with my champions I picked up on clearance at tractor supply, they were to small so I sold them for a profit.

@42OhmsPA Is it a 240v inverter generator?….which is what I’m looking for.

 

[ChrisG]

Well. May have found what I’m looking for at Lowes with an extended warranty. Never heard of Pulsar generators but looks similar to other brands but with 240v.
6000-Watt Portable Generator with Wireless Remote Start and Dual Fuel Capability https://www.lowes.com/pd/Pulsar-Products-6000-Watt-Gasoline-Propane-Portable-Generator/5014402223

 

[Crowz]

Pulsar is what I have. Mine is the 12k one.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07HCYW5GF/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1

Shows its $899 right now on amazon with free shipping with prime. Which is $100 less than when I bought it.

GREAT generator so far for me. Only drawback is the noise level. Its not quiet but I plan on adding a muffler to it soon.

I bought the tri fuel regulator for it so I can run gas, propane and natural gas.

It does gas and propane when you buy it.

 

[42OhmsPA]

@42OhmsPA Is it a 240v inverter generator?….which is what I’m looking for.

No, it's the GN400i 120V inverter.
If I didn't already have a generac 240v I would have ordered this wen for $685 shipped.

WEN GN625i 6250-Watt RV and Transfer-Switch-Ready 120V/240V Open Frame Inverter Generator, CARB Compliant

301cc 4-stroke OHV engine produces 6250 surge watts and 5000 rated watts Generate clean power to safely operate sensitive electronics such as smartphones, tablets, televisions and computers Lightweight body weighs 30% less than a traditional 6250-watt generator 4.2 gallon gas tank provides up to...

wenproducts.com

They have a dual fuel 8,750w inverter for $1049 shipped.

WEN DF875iX 8750-Watt RV and Transfer-Switch-Ready 120V/240V Dual Fuel Open Frame Inverter Generator with Remote Electric Start and CO Shutdown Sensor

420cc dual fuel engine produces 8750 surge watts and 7000 rated watts on gasoline or 7800 surge watts and 6300 running watts on opane Generate clean power to safely operate sensitive electronics such as smartphones, tablets, televisions and computers The WEN Watchdog CO Shutdown Sensor helps...

wenproducts.com

 

[Steve_S]

BE AWARE that Inverter Generators are NOT Cheap like that and for good reason. Be careful that you are not looking at MSW Construction Gennies. Construction generators will also have a floating Frequency variation and can range from 55Hz to 65Hz (North America) and their voltage fluctuations can go from 115-125 / 235/245VAC and that has "Side Effects" which can be terribly unpleasant. Frequency deviations will also affect electric motors (fridge, freezer, AC etc).

Last point which many don't realize... When a Generator is powering an Inverter/Charger or AIO, that device cannot & will not correct the Sine Wave or compensate while in charging mode & passing through. Essentially, whatever the generator outputs is what goes through the WHOLE SYSTEM.

Case in Point Example: When I use my Inverter Genny, digital clocks etc stay precise and motors on fridge etc are "quiet". When I have used my Construction genny (MSW) that floats around in frequency & voltage, the clocks loose time quickly and the fridge motor is noticeably noisier (sound almost like grinding or more like a growling). LED lights will also flicker and using a microwave with Mod Sine power makes for spooky sounds while operating.

From Samlex:

Some examples of devices that may not work properly with Modified Sine Wave and may also get damaged are given below:

Laser printers, photocopiers, and magneto-optical hard drives.
Built-in clocks in devices such as clock radios, alarm clocks, coffee makers, bread-makers, VCR, microwave ovens etc. may not keep time correctly.
Output voltage control devices like dimmers, ceiling fan / motor speed control may not work properly (dimming / speed control may not function).
Sewing machines with speed / microprocessor control.
Transformer-less capacitive input powered devices like (i) Razors, flashlights, night-lights, smoke detectors etc. (ii) Some re-chargers for battery packs used in hand power tools. These may get damaged. Please check with the manufacturer of these types of devices for suitability.
Devices that use radio frequency signals carried by the AC distribution wiring.
Some new furnaces with microprocessor control / Oil burner primary controls.
High intensity discharge (HID) lamps like Metal Halide lamps. These may get damaged. Please check with the manufacturer of these types of devices for suitability.
Some fluorescent lamps / light fixtures that have Power Factor Correction Capacitors. The inverter may shut down indicating overload.
Induction Cooktops

 

[Crowz]

I haven't had any issues running stuff with my non inverter generator but with that said my end game plan is to use a chargeverter to power my tp6048 via keeping the battery charged and providing the dc power it needs to power everything. Also I have a victron 12v charger now for my low power stuff.

So once I have the chargeverter I will be sending nothing but dc to my house except for the stove and hot water heater which will run on the ac part of the generator directly.

 

[Steve_S]

I haven't had any issues running stuff with my non inverter generator but with that said my end game plan is to use a chargeverter to power my tp6048 via keeping the battery charged and providing the dc power it needs to power everything. Also I have a victron 12v charger now for my low power stuff.

So once I have the chargeverter I will be sending nothing but dc to my house except for the stove and hot water heater which will run on the ac part of the generator directly.

This is one of the GOODIES from Signature Solar but only for 48V. Can use 240 or 120VAC.
Their "claim" that it will cleanup the power from a dirty source... it can be done but not at that price point... try 3x that cost.
Anyone that get's one of these should TEST it with a Dirty Generator and watch the Frequency & Voltage fluctuations to see if it really cleaning it up. Sorry, I am an old IT Engineer and dealt with a lot of this with our Server Rooms, Backup Systems etc for the Canadian Military.

 

[Crowz]

This is one of the GOODIES from Signature Solar but only for 48V. Can use 240 or 120VAC.
Their "claim" that it will cleanup the power from a dirty source... it can be done but not at that price point... try 3x that cost.
Anyone that get's one of these should TEST it with a Dirty Generator and watch the Frequency & Voltage fluctuations to see if it really cleaning it up. Sorry, I am an old IT Engineer and dealt with a lot of this with our Server Rooms, Backup Systems etc for the Canadian Military.

Umm I think your overthinking this.

Its converts AC to DC. DC isn't dirty. Its DC.

So any issues with anything being dirty input wise to the chargeverter will be dangerous to the chargeverter not something on the DC side.

Its just a battery charger that can run on 240 or 120.

 

[jimf909]

This is one of the GOODIES from Signature Solar but only for 48V. Can use 240 or 120VAC.
Their "claim" that it will cleanup the power from a dirty source... it can be done but not at that price point... try 3x that cost.
Anyone that get's one of these should TEST it with a Dirty Generator and watch the Frequency & Voltage fluctuations to see if it really cleaning it up. Sorry, I am an old IT Engineer and dealt with a lot of this with our Server Rooms, Backup Systems etc for the Canadian Military.

I was skeptical about this battery charger (I hate calling it a chargerverter because it's just a battery charger) but after using it for several months I'm a fan. It takes the dirtyish AC from my open frame Westinghouse 7,500 watt generator and charges my batteries just fine. The inverters then provide clean power to the house. Benefits include:
- Charging at 95 - 100 amps with the EG4 battery charger is a 36-42% increase over the max 70 amps that my two Victron Multiplus II 35 amp inverter/battery chargers are cabable of. This reduces generator run time significantly.
- It enables using any old generator and not worrying about dirty power. This means I could buy a cheaper open frame generator versus buying a more expensive and complex inverter/generator*. It also means that if I need an emergency backup I can rent or borrow anything available to charge the batteries.

*FWIW, I bought a Genmax 3,500 watt inverter/generator and it failed in several ways (first the display panel went bad then it had a no-spark condition that wasn't solved with a new coil). I got a full refund from amazon but the added cost/complexity of inverter generators is something I'd like to avoid and the EG4 48 volt battery charger enables that.

 

[jimf909]

BE AWARE that Inverter Generators are NOT Cheap like that and for good reason. Be careful that you are not looking at MSW Construction Gennies. Construction generators will also have a floating Frequency variation and can range from 55Hz to 65Hz (North America) and their voltage fluctuations can go from 115-125 / 235/245VAC and that has "Side Effects" which can be terribly unpleasant. Frequency deviations will also affect electric motors (fridge, freezer, AC etc).

Last point which many don't realize... When a Generator is powering an Inverter/Charger or AIO, that device cannot & will not correct the Sine Wave or compensate while in charging mode & passing through. Essentially, whatever the generator outputs is what goes through the WHOLE SYSTEM.

Case in Point Example: When I use my Inverter Genny, digital clocks etc stay precise and motors on fridge etc are "quiet". When I have used my Construction genny (MSW) that floats around in frequency & voltage, the clocks loose time quickly and the fridge motor is noticeably noisier (sound almost like grinding or more like a growling). LED lights will also flicker and using a microwave with Mod Sine power makes for spooky sounds while operating.

From Samlex:

I'll reiterate Steve_S's point here.

A few years ago my Outback inverter was passing through AC from my Marathon synchronous generator and we saw smoke from two cordless tool battery chargers (both died) and a coffee maker died (not just the clock). Since then I've been wary about inverters passing through generator power to the house. It may have made sense years ago when there was less sensitive stuff in a house but nowadays I prefer charging the batteries separately and allowing the inverters do what they do best: invert battery DC to clean whole house AC. FWIW, YMMV.

 

[ChrisG]

Think I’ll pull the trigger on that Pulsar 7k Inverter Generator for $1150. 5 year paper warranty that I’ll probably be only good to wipe myself with. At least I’ll have 240v and inverter.