Grid Outage Stats

[wattmatters]

Does anyone else record their outage stats? I have since our grid tied system went live with data Q4 in 2018.

Here's a summary of our outage data:

OUTAGE STATS

TOTAL # OF OUTAGES         73
DAYS                     1749
YEARS                     4.8
PER YEAR                 15.2

OUTAGE DURATION

Total                  132:20
Annual avg              27:37
Average                  1:48
Median                   0:50
Longest                 19:00
Shortest                 0:05

OUTAGE FREQUENCY

Outage Start Time
00:00 - 06:00              14
06:00 - 12:00              25
12:00 - 18:00              22
18:00 - 24:00              12

Summer                     28
Autumn                     21
Winter                      8
Spring                     16

Solar Hours 08:00 - 16:00  37
Non Solar Hours            36

<1 hr                      43
1-3 hrs                    19
3-6 hrs                     8
6-12 hrs                    2
12-24 hrs                   1
>24 hrs                     0

Days since last outage     39

OUTAGE HOURS BY YEAR AND MONTH

         2018    2019    2020    2021    2022    2023  |  Total
Jan              0.00    2.25    0.00    0.08    0.42  |   2.75
Feb              0.00   20.00    5.75    0.08    0.00  |  25.83
Mar              0.08    0.00    0.00    2.08    0.67  |   2.83
Apr              0.00    2.33    0.75    1.17   11.67  |  15.92
May              0.08    0.00    0.00    8.33    0.00  |   8.42
Jun              0.00    0.00    4.92    5.92    0.92  |  11.75
Jul              0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    5.67  |   5.67
Aug              2.17    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00  |   2.17
Sep              0.58    2.50    1.25    0.33    0.00  |   4.67
Oct              4.42    0.00    1.75    0.00          |   6.17
Nov      1.00    2.92    3.58    0.00    0.00          |   7.50
Dec     33.50    1.75    3.33    0.00    0.08          |  38.67
--------------------------------------------------------------
Total   34.50   12.00   34.00   14.42   18.08   19.33  | 132.33

 

[timselectric]

I don't have outages, anymore. Nothing to track for me.

 

[wattmatters]

I don't have outages, anymore. Nothing to track for me.

As per the thread title I'm asking about grid outages.

 

[timselectric]

As per the thread title I'm asking about grid outages.

Right
I've heard that those happen.

 

[wattmatters]

Right
I've heard that those happen.

Well our home doesn't get outages either since it runs via the grid supported off-grid system, however when making decisions about what sort of backup to have, I felt it helpful to have empirical data to validate the sort of power supply environment we had.

Going completely off-grid makes zero financial sense here.

 

[50ShadesOfDirt]

I hope more folks track the outages, where possible. Helps with the "our grid doesn't have outages" threads ... gotta have backups to the (solar) power system in use.

I haven't been lucky enough to live in an area without grid outages, when I was on grid power. Too many things knocked it out externally, if it wasn't an issue of the local grid company struggling to keep it up and running internally.

Brownouts, blackouts, long-duration outages ... bullets to transformers ... the latter might be on the decline, down under?

Generac (potential marketing fluff), and others, have the following for Canada:

generac.com/be-prepared/power-outages/power-outage-tracker-canada
poweroutage.com/ca/

US sites:
generac.com/outages
data.thespectrum.com/national-power-outage-map-tracker/area/canadian-county-ok/40017/

Hope this helps ...

 

[OM617YOTA]

I don't have a data logging outage tracker system, but they happen often enough here that we don't bother setting the clocks on the oven or microwave.

Power also goes out of spec(low or high voltage, low or high frequency) frequently, even if it doesn't go out. I only know this because a couple times per week the UPSs on the computers will click on and off, even if the lights haven't flickered.

 

[wattmatters]

the latter might be on the decline, down under?

I'm in a rural area. Most outages are local transmission lines downed by storms/trees/branches or some nong in a 4WD with a few too many bevvies on board.

 

[Danke]

I remember them once in a while growing up during a storm. But I live in the cities and have not experienced a outage for a long time.

The place I’ll be moving to is rural, and does have occasional outages. But hopefully my solar system will cover my usage there.

 

[rpdom]

We had a spate of outages about 20 years ago -is was probably a coincidence that a lot of new houses were being built in the area - but only one or two since then.

 

[DIYrich]

Well our home doesn't get outages either since it runs via the grid supported off-grid system, however when making decisions about what sort of backup to have, I felt it helpful to have empirical data to validate the sort of power supply environment we had.

Going completely off-grid makes zero financial sense here.

It depends on if you care about the once a year event, once every 10 years, or once every 100 year event (which can happen 2 years apart).

Plan B (generator) can cover the 1 an 10 year event, so may make you functionally off grid.

 

[Q-Dog]

My wife jokes that our battery backup works great ... because we haven't had another major power outage since we installed it.

 

[DIYrich]

Historic Grid Outages may not be a good predictor of the future outages.

green-energy-is-already-causing-blackouts-in-the-usa-and-it-ll-get-worse

MSN

 

[MurphyGuy]

Historic Grid Outages may not be a good predictor of the future outages.

green-energy-is-already-causing-blackouts-in-the-usa-and-it-ll-get-worse

MSN

That's NOT what the link says...

The problem is that they are closing power plants.. Actually, its more complicated than that..

Grid power plants are similar to home generators in that they run most efficiently at around 80% load. Less than 80%, and fuel is being wasted to keep the engine going, more than 80% and the stress shortens their life span.

Grid power plants are similar.. If you install enough generation capacity to handle the peak loading, then that extra capacity sits idle when it's not needed.. which wastes money.

It is not green energy causing the problem, it's mismanagement of the energy. Same with your car, if you're a crappy driver, you're going to get into accidents.. its' not the car's fault..

 

[rhino]

It is interesting to note that poweroutage.us does have archive of all the data on power outages they have recorded but it sounds like you'd have to pay money for it.

 

[DIYrich]

That's NOT what the link says...

My point wasn't regarding the title. The point was future grid stability. But, to address your points...

The problem is that they are closing power plants.. Actually, its more complicated than that..

Grid power plants are similar to home generators in that they run most efficiently at around 80% load. Less than 80%, and fuel is being wasted to keep the engine going, more than 80% and the stress shortens their life span.

Grid power plants are similar.. If you install enough generation capacity to handle the peak loading, then that extra capacity sits idle when it's not needed.. which wastes money.

You assume all grid power plants are the same. A nuke on/off cycle is days, not hours. A natural gas power plant can be cycled in 1-5 hours (hot start), or 1-48 hours (cold start), depending on how it is designed. Most coal is baseload and has longer cycle times than natural gas (12 hours to 40 hours). Sitting "idle" trivializes the problem (using a nominal amount of energy to be on stand-by). Generating power with no-where for the power to go, is a more difficult problem and expensive problem (nuke plant consumes the same amount of fuel during "idle").

It is not green energy causing the problem, it's mismanagement of the energy. Same with your car, if you're a crappy driver, you're going to get into accidents.. its' not the car's fault..

I would say less "mismanagement of" vs "inability to manage". If you could dispatch green energy like you can dispatch nuclear, coal, and natural gas plants, then problem solved. But you can't, so the grid needs to adapt to the new normal, and bulk storage to "manage the energy" is in its infancy. So, either: 1) pay a lot to keep existing plants spinning, just in case; 2) Pay to install a lot of fast cycle gas plants; 3) Pay to install a lot of bulk storage with existing technologies; or 4) live with a unstable grid.

 

[wattmatters]

Historic Grid Outages may not be a good predictor of the future outages.

That's true of most things however it is at least a good way to understand what the patterns have been.

When people consider their backup options it is useful to have some context on frequency and duration of outages they have been experiencing. What are their backup requirements? Health / life support equipment? Business considerations (e.g. work from home, food spoilage)? What alternatives might be suitable? Budget?

If you are in a location where outages are rare (which was the case where I lived before our current home, with two shorter outages in 20 years), then you may not even bother.

If outages become more common or the consequences of them increase, then the need to have options moves further to front of mind.

After we moved and outages became relatively common, it still took a bit to convince the wife on the need to devote some resources to it. The kicker was the two day outage at Christmas following a bad storm with her family visiting and fridges full of food. It's Summer here so you do not want fridges losing power for that long. I resisted the temptation for an impulsive purchase of a generator at the time.

As to what might causes changes in the frequency and duration of future outages in a given area, that is a diversion - this thread is about asking what stats people have on the outages they actually experience.

 

[MurphyGuy]

My point wasn't regarding the title. The point was future grid stability. But, to address your points...


You assume all grid power plants are the same. A nuke on/off cycle is days, not hours. A natural gas power plant can be cycled in 1-5 hours (hot start), or 1-48 hours (cold start), depending on how it is designed. Most coal is baseload and has longer cycle times than natural gas (12 hours to 40 hours). Sitting "idle" trivializes the problem (using a nominal amount of energy to be on stand-by). Generating power with no-where for the power to go, is a more difficult problem and expensive problem (nuke plant consumes the same amount of fuel during "idle").


I would say less "mismanagement of" vs "inability to manage". If you could dispatch green energy like you can dispatch nuclear, coal, and natural gas plants, then problem solved. But you can't, so the grid needs to adapt to the new normal, and bulk storage to "manage the energy" is in its infancy. So, either: 1) pay a lot to keep existing plants spinning, just in case; 2) Pay to install a lot of fast cycle gas plants; 3) Pay to install a lot of bulk storage with existing technologies; or 4) live with a unstable grid.

Those are all excellent and rather accurate points. I am also aware there there are a certain type of NG plant that can be cycled rather quickly.. although I forget the technical term for what it's called.

Locations that experience these increasing weather extremes should be installing more of these plants. I've always been a supporter of green energy, but I'm also an engineer and realize that the weather doesn't always cooperate. It would seem that some of these utilities, or the politics that control them, seem to be confused about the differences between "reduce the need for" and "eliminate the need for".

Several companies are developing flywheel storage and I'm wondering why they haven't become more mainstream. Batteries are great, but they're expensive and they wear out pretty quickly.. Unfortunately for most places, we can't pump water up to a mountain lake and drain it back down when more energy is needed.

Growing pains.. every new advancement has them.

 

[wattmatters]

If you could dispatch green energy like you can dispatch nuclear, coal, and natural gas plants, then problem solved. But you can't

You can, you just may not be doing so yet.

Grid batteries are playing an important an ever increasing role in maintaining the stability of the grid in Australia. Along with syncons, they have pretty much replaced gas peakers from their role in the frequency control and ancillary services (FCAS) market. Indeed the ability of grid batteries to perform this task is superior as they are able to respond orders of magnitude more quickly (in microseconds vs handfuls of seconds to minutes). The rate these things are being installed here is astonishing.

Big Battery Storage Map of Australia

This Big Battery Storage Map of Australia includes all big battery projects of 10MW or 10MWh and above. “Operating” includes those projects currently working; “Construction” means those…

reneweconomy.com.au

Hydro is highly dispatch-able renewable energy but the availability of hydro (and pumped hydro) is highly location dependent.

We have some large pumped hydro plants under construction which will also play a key role.

Until all necessary capacity is in place then gas will fill the gaps.

 

[MurphyGuy]

That's true of most things however it is at least a good way to understand what the patterns have been.

When people consider their backup options it is useful to have some context on frequency and duration of outages they have been experiencing. What are their backup requirements? Health / life support equipment? Business considerations (e.g. work from home, food spoilage)? What alternatives might be suitable? Budget?

If you are in a location where outages are rare (which was the case where I lived before our current home, with two shorter outages in 20 years), then you may not even bother.

If outages become more common or the consequences of them increase, then the need to have options moves further to front of mind.

After we moved and outages became relatively common, it still took a bit to convince the wife on the need to devote some resources to it. The kicker was the two day outage at Christmas following a bad storm with her family visiting and fridges full of food. It's Summer here so you do not want fridges losing power for that long. I resisted the temptation for an impulsive purchase of a generator at the time.

As to what might causes changes in the frequency and duration of future outages in a given area, that is a diversion - this thread is about asking what stats people have on the outages they actually experience.

Interesting..

We may have some rough road and bumps along the way, but I think we're on the right track..

https://www.expressnews.com/business/article/batteries-buoyed-texas-grid-operators-wary-new-18342962.php