Help with realistic view

[Solardaveo]

I’ve been looking at pannels for years , we’re moving to land to continue farming but off grid Scotland uk ,
Our current consumption will drop due to cooking by log as apposed to electric ,our heating also log as apposed to gas and electric and other things we would leave too, but I am trying to base it off what I got now so there will be backup.

I’ve had quotes and talks with people with soma y mixed views from some telling me 5kw is plenty to others saying even with 24kw I’d need generators etc and solar will never do it
I quickly came to see that plenty of people was maximising sales or garenteeing a sale

So I’m here to find out honestly what I need , the solar will be fitted on to a sheep barn built with solar in mind,

Current consumption is 18kw a day that’s all tools welders fans lights ovens the lot,

My main run is the workshop lights and drying room which run every day from 9-9
Which pulls 10kwh a day

My other usage is house lights to to and Xbox and fridge ,
I’ve accepted il prob be better running the fridge and freezer off lpg
Lights I could do from their own solar charge lights seen a few that are quite good .

I was set to buy 24kw solar and 48kw battery’s 48v and then I’ve been told that’s way too much and the batteries should take my winter months with a 12kw pulling 5kw in winter and pulling 20 in summer that a year picture was better to look at and that I am around 6500kwh a year then a 12kw will put 7kw total ?

To be honest I’m lost

 

[Aridom82]

JRC Photovoltaic Geographical Information System (PVGIS) - European Commission

Photovoltaic Geographical Information System (PVGIS)

re.jrc.ec.europa.eu

Play around with this. Is an interactive calculation tool that will give you how much you can expect to produce depending on a number of factors like, where you live, what orientation the panels have, how much of them you want to put, size of battery, etc...

 

[SamDeleted]

To be honest I’m lost

Me too after reading that post ? ... Can you tell us , exactly how much power you use per day total , winter & summer pls if you can

From that it's easy to help size a solar array




The rule of thumb in the UK is 1x solar production in winter , 5x in summer

Eg. a 4,000w solar array , would produce 4,000wh average in winter, 20,000wh in summer


it's a big swing mostly caused by the short days in winter , I think you'll get even less up there in Highlands

 

[Solardaveo]

JRC Photovoltaic Geographical Information System (PVGIS) - European Commission

Photovoltaic Geographical Information System (PVGIS)

re.jrc.ec.europa.eu

Play around with this. Is an interactive calculation tool that will give you how much you can expect to produce depending on a number of factors like, where you live, what orientation the panels have, how much of them you want to put, size of battery, etc...

thanks bit confusing that lol im sure its simple when you understand it , i thought it was going to be like sims world or roller-coaster tycoon , got excited then, the pc array says 1kwh panel installed there but seems like i should enter the wattage there but below looks like the number of panels set at 1000watt ?, hm not sure what i am looking at lol i wish i was been playing with all sorts of calcs, saw a guy YouTube using a drawing like planner 3d enter panels geo etc boom tells ya stuff but i cant find that program

my main hard usage when we cut out most stuff we dont need shows up as this for winter
Energy consumed per day:
kWh 15.5
this is my work , and my house powered 5657kwh a year

my fridge and freezer are using an extra 12kwh a day ( this is where i guess a generator would be best to run the fridge and freezers and my gasifier etc ) 4380 kwh a year

as thats 10037 a year if all together , unless there is a better way to run this i feel i need a big ass 24kw system system lol

but the quote i get back recently thats made me over think this is he sent a link saying this below, and thats said even with fridges on the solar i could run this on a 12kw system ? providing i got the batteries

How much does a 12kW solar system produce per day?​

On average, a 12kw solar panel system can produce between 30 – 66 kWh per day, 900 – 2,000 kw/h per month, or 10,800 – 24,000 kw/h.

How much does a 12kW solar panel system produce?
Time period	Energy produced (kWh)
Per day	30 – 66 kWh
Per month	900 – 2,000 kWh
Per year	10,800 – 24,000 kWh

 

[Supervstech]

Me too after reading that post ? ... Can you tell us , exactly how much power you use per day total , winter & summer pls if you can

From that it's easy to help size a solar array




The rule of thumb in the UK is 1x solar production in winter , 5x in summer

Eg. a 4,000w solar array , would produce 4,000wh average in winter, 20,000wh in summer


it's a big swing mostly caused by the short days in winter , I think you'll get even less up there in Highlands

I bet a LOT of European winters get far less than 1x per day.

 

[KITROBASKIN]

It will be such a big system, consider not messing with LPG refrigerators and such. Members here on diysolarforum report having had issues with those appliances plus they can cost quite a bit more.

Your drying room runs in the winter? Perhaps you will describe what they are for?

 

[SamDeleted]

I bet a LOT of European winters get far less than 1x per day.

It really depends where you are,

the south of France, Spain, Italy, Greece often get brilliant weather even in the depth of winter

Now northern Europe like the UK , Germany , Netherlands, Scandinavia, that's a different story ?

 

[Aridom82]

I know this website can get a bit confusing, but the thing is to insist on it until you understand it.
First you click on the map on the left to pinpoint your location, then you select the type of system you want to install on the right. In your case for what i have understood you want an 'off-grid' system. And then you just fill the data you would like to test to see how much it produces.

If you dont mind sharing your coordinates i can plug the data for you and give you back the info.

 

[houseofancients]

Now northern Europe like the UK , Germany , Netherlands, Scandinavia, that's a different story ?

very different indeed, and this year has been absolutely dreadful

 

[SamDeleted]

very different indeed, and this year has been absolutely dreadful

we had a grey overcast summer, cloudy autumn . I am hoping for a sunny winter ?

 

[houseofancients]

we had a grey overcast summer, cloudy autumn . I am hoping for a sunny winter ?

it is an el nino year, which is always cloudy , rainy and grey summers and falls....
do prep youself for a rather cold Jan-feb-Mar though....
i surely hope this will be cold, but sunny and not like last year a cloudy muck

 

[MisterB1959]

is it worth looking at off peak tariffs and buying (and storing) power in a large battery bank? In the UK you could use https://www.fogstar.co.uk/collections/solar-battery-storage to buy your batteries from a good supplier (i have used them myself BUT no connections to them) at a very good price, especially if you assemble them yourself in your workshop. You could get 30kw of batteries for £8k which would effectively make all your electricity use at an off peak rate if you can get one? Then any solar you add over time will reduce your need to buy from the grid. you would of course need an inverter big enough to charge the batteries during the time period of off peak. Sunsynk do some well priced hybrid inverters that are UK approved. A large inverter is probably going to cost somewhere in the region of £2-3k.


Do you have the potential to ground mount the panels so you can get the perfect orientation, possibly using the structure as a shelter?

 

[Solardaveo]

I know this website can get a bit confusing, but the thing is to insist on it until you understand it.
First you click on the map on the left to pinpoint your location, then you select the type of system you want to install on the right. In your case for what i have understood you want an 'off-grid' system. And then you just fill the data you would like to test to see how much it produces.

If you dont mind sharing your coordinates i can plug the data for you and give you back the info.

our land is in north west scotland, uk.

@

MisterB1959 yes i have open field , i planned to put them ontop of a barn i build for them, , ive even though about putting it on a roundabout to move during the day lol, so yes i am flexible,​

@KITROBASKIN yeah its a workshop, we do alot of woodwork, painting varnishing etc , so run extractors and fans, equipment that keep the room stable, and our tool useage during that time we also use the rear of the room for chicken rearing, which on the plug we use says is responcible for about 12kwh a day of useage , so on days we use less that would be a bonus but this is my max main need​

our actual useage is small apart from fridges which i am figuring out if there is a better way to do somehow ,
so daily useage is 15kwh, might i add i am a family of 12 people, lol

 

[KITROBASKIN]

Are they old fridges? New ones are more efficient.

Thanks for your explanations.

 

[MisterB1959]

our land is in north west scotland, uk.

@

MisterB1959 yes i have open field , i planned to put them ontop of a barn i build for them, , ive even though about putting it on a roundabout to move during the day lol, so yes i am flexible,​

@KITROBASKIN yeah its a workshop, we do alot of woodwork, painting varnishing etc , so run extractors and fans, equipment that keep the room stable, and our tool useage during that time we also use the rear of the room for chicken rearing, which on the plug we use says is responcible for about 12kwh a day of useage , so on days we use less that would be a bonus but this is my max main need​

our actual useage is small apart from fridges which i am figuring out if there is a better way to do somehow ,
so daily useage is 15kwh, might i add i am a family of 12 people, lol

If the barn has open sides, it might be worth getting bifacial panels, just to squeeze that little bit extra out? I think the ideal height for bifacial panels is around 4m, but you would need to confirm.

 

[SamDeleted]

so daily useage is 15kwh, might i add i am a family of 12 people, lol

That is very low for 12 people !

 

[hwy17]

I was set to buy 24kw solar and 48kw battery’s 48v and then I’ve been told that’s way too much

You were probably not far off there. You would still run short some winter weeks and want some kind of generator. No way to avoid a generator completely unless you're willing to be without power.

Did you have specific equipment in mind?

 

[AmpD]

Something i didn’t understand at first.

You panels can power your inverter and charge the battery at the same time if they have enough to meet demand.

It is when usage is higher than panel supply that creates the biggest need for batteries. Like at night when there is no sun.

Also you can’t charge batteries while using them. So battery bank size and charging rates have a lot to do with use as well as supply.

New here myself but it was a hard initial learning curve to understand some points for me so hope that helps you figure it out better.

Get a way to measure individual consumption for devices you will be using instead of the whole house and you will get a better picture of your needs instead of wants. You’ll be able to see what the wants are too and know which ones you can accommodate within your “max” limit you set for your system.

They make little plug in meters for it.

 

[hwy17]

Winter production looks pretty grim in the Scottish highlands, 5kWh per day in December out of a 24kWp array.

You can be sure that 24kWp/12kWh is not undersized at all.

Maybe as much as 10kWh? I'm not as familiar with that tool. Also needs to be calculated for a precise location.

 

[Aridom82]

our land is in north west scotland, uk.

@

MisterB1959 yes i have open field , i planned to put them ontop of a barn i build for them, , ive even though about putting it on a roundabout to move during the day lol, so yes i am flexible,​

@KITROBASKIN yeah its a workshop, we do alot of woodwork, painting varnishing etc , so run extractors and fans, equipment that keep the room stable, and our tool useage during that time we also use the rear of the room for chicken rearing, which on the plug we use says is responcible for about 12kwh a day of useage , so on days we use less that would be a bonus but this is my max main need​

our actual useage is small apart from fridges which i am figuring out if there is a better way to do somehow ,
so daily useage is 15kwh, might i add i am a family of 12 people, lol

For example, a 24kwp system with panels inclined 60 degrees oriented to south, in Dingwall in the Scottish Highlands will produce 500kwh in December, the lowest productive month. About 16 kwh a day. 2680 kwh in May, the highest productive month, about 90 kwh a day.

If you give me the name of a town near you i can give you a more accurate data for your location.

 

[SamDeleted]

You were probably not far off there. You would still run short some winter weeks and want some kind of generator. No way to avoid a generator completely unless you're willing to be without power.

Did you have specific equipment in mind?

This is a good point , it can work out better value for money to have a slightly smaller solar set up/battery capacity, and just run a geno as and when needed

 

[Solardaveo]

For example, a 24kwp system with panels inclined 60 degrees oriented to south, in Dingwall in the Scottish Highlands will produce 500kwh in December, the lowest productive month. About 16 kwh a day. 2680 kwh in May, the highest productive month, about 90 kwh a day.

If you give me the name of a town near you i can give you a more accurate data for your location.

Sorry been away working a more accurate location to where we are meant to be is

• Nearest post code: G83 8SA
• GPS coordinates: 56.0317, -4.50533

I don’t have any equipment I mind though I don’t mind a hunt, eg a dude on eBay selling 74kwh 48v deep cycle batteries for £4000 in good order seems good , not keen on li with the damage it causes fires it can cause etc but if I need I will get I know you need double when using deep cycles too ,

Solar panels I found a guy selling them if bought more than 20 pannels the price drops to £109 a 5xx watt or 4xx watt for £100 pv , sounded ok there is a lot on eBay etc too but I’ve seen some can be crap china pannels etc too so learning to see difference would be needed lol

Otherwise I am open to advice

Generator wise I do composting and plan to expand my composter to a biodigester and harvest the gas which using my compressor I can bottle up , so can run lpg generators from that. Also do small scale petrol recycle from plastics etc so can do this as extras just cause I can do why not, also gasifiers seem to be growing in popularity to run generators etc small scale farm in Scotland runs a small unit which pulls home 49kwh a day just below the theeshhold so I plan to play with these too as a fabricator but before I apply these I’d like to make sure I am 100% from a solid source like solar , diesel gen on red d lpg generator
Also if I have running water and I can make enough drop from I will harness that too which can drop the need for solar at all but until march we wont know what woodland we lock down or what it has , so for that solar will be in my lorry to guarantee my power .

I plant to fill my lorry with everything we need and go set up solar /water /toilets etc and get on generator will carry my workload till solar is active so need to work out a system I can start buying that will work

 

[SamDeleted]

Sorry been away working a more accurate location to where we are meant to be is

• Nearest post code: G83 8SA
• GPS coordinates: 56.0317, -4.50533

I don’t have any equipment I mind though I don’t mind a hunt, eg a dude on eBay selling 74kwh 48v deep cycle batteries for £4000 in good order seems good , not keen on li with the damage it causes fires it can cause etc but if I need I will get I know you need double when using deep cycles too ,

Solar panels I found a guy selling them if bought more than 20 pannels the price drops to £109 a 5xx watt or 4xx watt for £100 pv , sounded ok there is a lot on eBay etc too but I’ve seen some can be crap china pannels etc too so learning to see difference would be needed lol

Otherwise I am open to advice

Generator wise I do composting and plan to expand my composter to a biodigester and harvest the gas which using my compressor I can bottle up , so can run lpg generators from that. Also do small scale petrol recycle from plastics etc so can do this as extras just cause I can do why not, also gasifiers seem to be growing in popularity to run generators etc small scale farm in Scotland runs a small unit which pulls home 49kwh a day just below the theeshhold so I plan to play with these too as a fabricator but before I apply these I’d like to make sure I am 100% from a solid source like solar , diesel gen on red d lpg generator
Also if I have running water and I can make enough drop from I will harness that too which can drop the need for solar at all but until march we wont know what woodland we lock down or what it has , so for that solar will be in my lorry to guarantee my power .

I plant to fill my lorry with everything we need and go set up solar /water /toilets etc and get on generator will carry my workload till solar is active so need to work out a system I can start buying that will work

All sound very exciting, keep us updated

 

[SamDeleted]

4xx watt for £100 pv

Yea it's a good price, just about as cheap as you can get them right now

I plant to fill my lorry with everything we need and go set up solar /water /toilets etc and get on generator will carry my workload till solar is active so need to work out a system I can start buying that will work

That's the important part !

Generator wise I do composting and plan to expand my composter to a biodigester and harvest the gas which using my compressor I can bottle up , so can run lpg generators from that

Do let us know if/when you get that working , I would be very very interested

 

[SamDeleted]

I don’t have any equipment I mind though I don’t mind a hunt, eg a dude on eBay selling 74kwh 48v deep cycle batteries for £4000 in good order seems good , not keen on li with the damage it causes fires it can cause etc but if I need I will get I know you need double when using deep cycles too ,

Will it get cold where the batteries are going to live? If so your best option are AGM batteries, they are much more suitable for use in cold conditions


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