Home baked LiFePo4 Cell? Possible or not?

[Daniel972]

According to an old thread, the patents are soon to expire on the LFP cell chemistry. Have anybody here tried to or heard about somebody that boldly manufactured a home made LiFePo4 Cell?

 

[Substrate]

Sure it's possible. But more likely to be a toxic danger to yourself with shoddy manufacturing. Pretty sure you are talking about trying to tear apart old used cells right? when you find out how much the raw materials cost - even *IF* they would be sold to an individual consumer.

Kind of like those guys who post videos about how easy it is to melt down spent car batteries, pouring the lead down i-beams with dishwashing gloves on to homebrew lead-acid batts.

sunshine_eggo recently posted about the dangers of electrolyte, so don't fall for the idiots who pay absolutely zero attention to YOUR health and safety, nevermind their own.

 

[curiouscarbon]

It's "Possible" in that after purchasing lots of equipment, it could be within reason to manufacture a 0.1 Amp hour LiFePO4 cell at home safely.

It's not LiFePO4 chemistry, but a visitor here @danielfp248 has shared some of their adventures assembling cells at home of other chemistries.

constructing Zinc-Iodine battery cell

My adventures building a Zinc-Iodine battery

Welcome to my adventure building a Zinc-Iodine battery All experiments carried out from #100 are now shared publicly (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/67hdgpm5lijt5s1/AACS0gjDSYHZny_tLSfXXmfza?dl=0). The experiment_summary excel file contains a summary of all important variables in the experiments...

diysolarforum.com

constructing Zn-MnO2 battery cell

My adventures building a Zn-MnO2 battery

After looking at Zn-halide chemistries and running into big road blocks with both Zn-I and Zn-Br batteries, I have decided to explore the world of Zn-MnO2 batteries. Especially, mildly acidic rechargeable Zn-MnO2 chemistries. These batteries use very earth abundant elements and very low cost...

diysolarforum.com

As a learning exercise, I imagine the resource and one time hardware costs would be quite high.

To cope with a dynamic market, or high cell prices, I think it's not realistic to hope for a lower cost than sourcing from an existing manufacturer when all hardware etc is factored in.

If you try it, please observe all possible safety precautions and wear appropriate personal protective equipment.

Personally, I would not try it, but learning from others is fun.

The electrolyte with LiFePO4 is quite unfriendly to humans, so please do exercise utmost caution if experimenting.

LFP Safety

LFP is touted as "safe" and "non-toxic." While certainly among the safest of Lithium options, it is not non-toxic by any measure. The electrolyte is very nasty stuff. Here is an MSDS...

diysolarforum.com

 

[joanna_lannie]

Obviously, you need to have a strong knowledge reserve and hands-on ability. Although LiFePO4 battery safety is high, this is a high degree of safety in use. The electrolyte inside the battery is toxic. Are you ready to meet this challenge?

 

[Hedges]

We rolled our own lead-acid cell in junior high.

There is usually some secret sauce in batteries, so if you try to outdo commercial LiFePO4 you might make a career of it before becoming successful. I would suggesting investing in a SEM, atomic mass spectrometer, Auger electron spectroscopy, etc. to facilitate the project.

I think both PV panels and lithium batteries, it is best to purchase quality commercial assemblies.
The system, DIY.
Most electronics, buy. There may be some custom boards worth building and some custom software.

 

[Daniel972]

How is the LiFePo electrolyte toxic? How bad is it? Lethal? Permanently Damaging? I know many of my "High school" curiculum chemical experiments needed to have that specially designed closet plexiglass like actively chimneyed and ventilated nische.

 

[Daniel972]

Sure it's possible. But more likely to be a toxic danger ...
---
sunshine_eggo recently...

Ok, missed the info already posted above. Sorry...

 

[mrzed001]

How is the LiFePo electrolyte toxic? How bad is it? Lethal? Permanently Damaging? I know many of my "High school" curiculum chemical experiments needed to have that specially designed closet plexiglass like actively chimneyed and ventilated nische.

It has Hydrogen fluoride inside:

Hydrogen fluoride - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

That with water or moisture makes Hydrofluoric acid

Hydrofluoric acid - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

A strong acid that can even attack glass.

So it is VERY DANGEROUS !

 

[Bluedog225]

There are other dangers. It’s in the msds. Do your research first. Future you will thank you.

 

[Daniel972]

Hydrofluoric acid seem to be a frequent choice for "movie" poisoning and disolver of bodies, but we keep these cells loose in our basements, and garages (even apartments) without any warning signs for unsuspecting fire and rescue crews. Sounds weird.

Maybe this comment taken from
the above LFP-safety thread disproves some of the scares above?

LFP Safety

LFP is touted as "safe" and "non-toxic." While certainly among the safest of Lithium options, it is not non-toxic by any measure. The electrolyte is very nasty stuff. Here is an MSDS...

diysolarforum.com

 

[curiouscarbon]

Lithium hexafluorophosphate is one of the primary unfriendly electrolyte ingredients from what I gather.

The other thread links the MSDS but does not clearly name it.

https://www.fishersci.com/store/msds?partNumber=AC191260050&productDescription=LITHIUM+HEXAFLUOROPHOSPH+5GR&vendorId=VN00032119&countryCode=US&language=en

 

[curiouscarbon]

this is the scale of hardware i imagine is needed to do it in a workshop safely

probably more than this, i do not know all the steps to manufacture LiFePO4 cell