Home Insurance & Non UL Approved Equipment
- Thread starter Hymie
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No. I told them I had solar installed and they just wanted to know the approximate install cost. It didn't change my policy by even a penny.
Texas-Mark
Solar Wizard
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My insurance paid for replacement of two panels under "personal property". Since mine are not on my main house they said they are not covered under the regular house coverage.
peakbagger
Solar Enthusiast
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I have run into required UL approvals on custom switchgear on a couple of combined heat and power projects. The gear is assembled out of UL listed components by a custom switchgear builder. The local AHJ insists that the overall assembly gets UL approval. We push back but usually have to pay UL inspector to visit the site and do a site approval. Same with control panels, most panel shops either get the assembly approved by internal staff or hire it out.
12VoltInstalls
life passes by too quickly to not live in freedom
So that’s $1000/year insurance for a $50K system. You’d only pay that much for insurance if you were sure you would have a loss and the insurance company wouldn’t offer it if they thought they weren’t going to pay out.
I don’t think I’d pay the insurance rate imho
SilverbackMP
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My area doesn’t have permits or inspectors, nor is my state under any form of statewide code compliance in terms of electrical or solar.
Only permit required is septic and it just requires drawings and a form…no inspections.
That being said, I still want to be compliant with NEC 2014. They can stick NEC 2018 and 20 up their fifth point of contact with over complicated DC rapid shutdown. These systems violate KISS as it is. My panels will likely be mounted on an storage outbuilding and not a home though.
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And you base this on what?
I've seen way too much shoddy equipment that is still somehow UL listed. I have not heard of someone's house burning down due to bad electrical that was done wrong by a homeowner and the insurance not paying for it. Half the crap wiring I've seen in a house was done many years before the current owners lived there (and sometimes it seems a miracle it didn't burn down a long time ago). Can you imagine your house burning down and your insurance refusing to pay because someone 20 years ago did something wrong and it was no fault of your own?
wmgeorge
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My son had a friend that built computers, non UL approved power supply which is common place. But the Ins company held up payment on the house fire claim for months, said it was the power supply. Have you been around After a fire and dealt with a claims agent? I would guess not. BTW I have never seen UL approved equipment I would call shoddy.
tigerwillow1
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With all of the Internet sales and cheap gear from China, I'd think there's hardly a house around that doesn't have some non-UL-approved electrical device in it.
Much of the crap out of china is anything but UL listed. https://a.co/d/4rN10BW
Top item in image is what they sold a year ago, bottom is current. What is missing ?
Ad at that link claims UL listing, FRAUD from Amazon. Surprise !! Not.
Top item in image is what they sold a year ago, bottom is current. What is missing ?
Ad at that link claims UL listing, FRAUD from Amazon. Surprise !! Not.
Attachments
Didn't Florida add an insurance requirement (liability?) not long ago for PV?
Homeowner's policies in general are a scam. For my house, insurance will only cover about 50% of replacement cost based on the formulas they use. Fortunately the premiums are aligned with that, but boy would it suck to have it burn down.
After finding some of the things that I did in the house done by a licensed electrician (finger-tight circuit breaker lugs were the worst) I doubt many insurance companies would be able to deny you for general wiring issues. The problem comes when you do something that dramatically increases risk. A Li-Poly battery that you built from parts on Aliexpress and placed under your priceless oil paintings would fit the bill on that one. (But buy it from Amazon and they claim it has proper UL labels and the insurance company will happily cover you and sue Amazon.)
Munchie33
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ETL counts for UL listing.
ETL counts. It's just as valid as UL listing.
robby
Photon Vampire
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Insurance companies work in a pretty straight forward manor. If something happens and your a good customer for years and the payout is not huge then they may overlook certain things. If the Payout is huge or deaths, collateral fires to other houses etc are involved then the gloves come off and they will use all possible means to get off the hook.
You can be 100% sure that when the Fire Dept forensic team zeros in on the cause of the fire being a non compliant Inverter or an Inverter hooked up without proper installation and Inspection, the insurance company will bail on you almost instantly.
One thing that I have found to be very consistent about Insurance companies is that if you think of them in religious terms then the Sales Dept is Heaven. The nicest folks who answer the phone on the second ring and will give you some coffee and cookies while they finalize your policy.
The other Dept is Claims which is like Hell. They put you on Hold for eternity and then try to suck the life out of you before they will part with a dollar.
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wmgeorge
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Correct. I had to deal with Farm B______ Ins Company on a roof damage claim from hail. I only got paid 1/2 up front and could not get the rest of the money until I Proved to them I had the work done. Meaning I had to pay the roofing Co. up front. Then within 60 days I got notice of a rate increase!! Your agent is mister nice guy the claims dept is as above... hell.
Guess I have a better one. They paid 80% of the roof estimate up front and then left directions that whatever the contractor goes above for the contractor to bill them direct. And my rates have not gone up. Oh, I was only a customer of theirs for 6 months before a storm ripped up shingles.
My new roof actually came in a fair bit less than their estimate by the adjuster, so end result was I didn't actually have to pay the deductible and that 80% was plenty to cover the whole thing. Win.
My new roof actually came in a fair bit less than their estimate by the adjuster, so end result was I didn't actually have to pay the deductible and that 80% was plenty to cover the whole thing. Win.
But noting ... Amazon claims UL listing and product does not. Doesn't matter what we think here, lawyer and the law would collect.
wmgeorge
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You are 100% correct, Amazon lets venders put anything up for sale. However I understand there is a China UL stamp? I know zero about how it works or not. But US UL listed is what counts and just putting it on a device does not make it so. Insurance companies want to weasel out of paying if they can, you can take them to court if you want however.
Lighthouse Beacon
Following the Light
Old thread, but wanted to mention it appears the general statistical probability your house burns is 1:850 per year. So let’s all draw straws and see who loses. Probably not a bad idea to do wifi enabled smoke detectors and add fire extinguishers. Early detection (much like anything) is crucial.
Nobodybusiness
Solar Sponge.
I brought this up a while back and got all kinds of answers.
It’s just most people haven’t had to deal with it yet.
No disasters to contend with insurance companies yet.
Lots of folks on here run DIY, non UL, non inspected stuff.
Hopefully it doesn’t affect any claims but knowing insurance companies, I’ll bet they use anything they can to deny a claim.
Some of these folks can’t get insurance without UL listed and inspected gear so they get the right stuff and get it inspected.
It’s a wait and see I guess.
Lighthouse Beacon
Following the Light
Yes, both directions. Insurance companies getting leaner operating margins so more willingness to fight pay outs, coupled with significant increases in Chinese/non regulated electronics in homes. I’m in Florida so these companies would rather spend more money fighting a claim then paying out. A lot of abuse here though. Given you keep your installs clean and gear clear of combustibles it should be mostly mitigated. I’ve seen some diy setups in some questionable rooms/setups here though.. guess we’ll all roll the dice… I think we still have a higher probability of dying in a car accident tho?
On the overall scheme of things I think we’re on the wild frontier with respect to solar and especially energy storage. Regulations change by the day and yet still aren’t up to speed with the tech available never mind the local inspector. It doesn’t help that information and equipment is available from all over the world and may not be pertinent or even allowed in one’s own jurisdiction.
peakbagger
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BTW This is the Commonwealth of Massachusetts Fire Marshall's guidance to AHJs regarding home batteries. https://www.mass.gov/doc/supersedin...ns-in-one-and-two-family-dwellings-0/download
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