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How do you evaluate a shock hazard?

John.DS99

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May 6, 2023
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Please someone tell me is there any source of information that would help me to understand and evaluate an electrical shock hazard?

I was shocked recently into the realization that a lot of people make comments on unexpected electrical hazards that they run up against, but no one ever said (that I could find) exactly how do you evaluate the hardware involved?

For instance, there is a 10,000V door knob, and I am walking up to it. I have a multimeter in my hand. Now what? Stick one end on my tongue? The concrete under my feet? My left testicle?

How about you install a component in your solar system and you feel a small shock or a very large one. What are the steps you take to evaluate it?

I think the people who know how to evaluate these situations are not very good at sharing this knowledge. Or maybe they are dead. I looked on youtube but all I could find are these idiotic safety videos like
 
If you're getting shocked from touching things like the outside of your breaker box or your solar array then you have an improper ground.
 
For grounded power sources like a typical non solar utility supplied building you use a ground reference to check the door knob. A nearby outlet, the ground socket of an extension cord plugged into a further away outlet. Holding one end pressed against concrete with the pad of your thumb will actually probably work but it's not reliable.

This is on the assumption that there are not 10k volt sources around and you're only looking for <600v. High voltage has their own procedures and they don't go around sticking multimeters on their power sources I don't think, or I don't know. Point is, you assume that you're only looking for a <600v AC source or <1000v solar source.

With solar systems which are usually "floating" you can't check voltage against ground. I don't have any educated opinion on a proper procedure but if I were to get a shock from a solar system my reaction would be disconnect it with gloves and then physically assess what could be going wrong.
 
The reason for videos like that is CYA, employers have to document then "learned" us, to reduce their liability. Same goes for other topics, like what is allowed or not allowed when hitting on coworkers, and how to respond to delusional coworkers who deny nature and chromosomes.

Not counting static and ignition systems, 10kV or so is quite dangerous, can burn your whole arm in an instant. For those of us in the field, training videos and pictures show the aftermath. I've watched PG&E guy use a fiberglass pole with non-contact voltage detector before working on underground transformer.

Also, high power sources like utility transformers can cause a DMM or a circuit breaker to explode, and can make an arc far more intense than an arc welder, causing instant skin burns.

There are non-contact detectors available for low voltage (< 600V) use as well, such as one setting on this meter:


I have a basic acoustic stud-finder, but some have magnets to find nails and voltage detector to warn before you drill/drive into a live wire.

You can check for voltage with leads of a DMM, but then you're bringing the voltage out to an exposed other lead of DMM. Be very deliberate about not touching it! If you have an alligator clip for one lead, you can work with one hand (keeping the other behind your back) and attach clip to ground, then probe a wire to test it. But that doesn't take care of testing between wires. I hold both test leads in one hand while contacting two terminals.

Our training and policies emphasize "LOTO", Lock-Out Tag-Out. After determining which breaker operates a circuit, we turn it off and put a lock on the breaker/disconnect and verify with a meter there is no voltage between terminals or to ground. A tag identifies what, when, who.

For you, this means shutting off all sources of power to a box before working on it, and making sure family members can't turn it back on.
Some devices have multiple sources of power which must be disabled.

For PV systems, the difficulty is PV panels and batteries produce power that can't be shut off. So need to isolate them; after interrupting current flow I unplug both ends of MC connectors at PV panels.
Batteries, usually don't have touch-safe connectors to work with plus a wrench can short them out and melt, so insulated tools and being careful about order of connections is useful (e.g. in a car, disconnect ground cable first, reconnect last. That way, when working on positive cable, if wrench contacts car body it doesn't complete a circuit.)

If chassis (or doorknob) is electrically hot due to previous work, that's something you want to find out before touching it. Non-contact probe migh work. A meter could, but you have to have a second conductor to test, one that is actually grounded. Working on ungrounded kitchen & bath outlets, I used faucet confirming voltage present, then absent. Also identifying hot vs. neutral. An extension cord to an outlet could also serve as reference.

I got bit by hot chassis, which I did to myself. Wired hot vs. ground swapped and didn't consider the possibility while debugging low measurements. It is especially important to avoid a shock in one hand and out through the other. Best to have rubber shoes, do not lean against or otherwise contact ground, use one hand to make measurements.


The key defense is awareness, thinking things through before touching anything, and testing with a meter.
 
Wow, thanks for the response Hedges. I'll have to think about this. It is kind of an emotional thing when you see the arc / spark in front of your face and realize you routinely make mistakes. I make mistakes all the time. Maybe 20 - 30 a day. It wasn't a big deal when I had two little solar panels and a power station. Since then I have become more ambitious and have 10 in series that are pushing out 400 volts and more electricity than I can deal with at the moment. Between grounding problems and power distribution, I have shut my system down until I can set up breaker boxes and appropriate connections. Once everything is in place, I'll call 911 and then throw the switch. Or stand outside and ask my wife to please push the little button.
 
Make sure to ground things. And by that, I mean run wire from PV frames to inverter chassis to AC electrical system.
People have been getting shocks from them. Also from PV input terminals of inverter, even before connecting PV panels.

Hey, Sunnyvale! You're next door to me.

PV to SCC or inverter, that can be dealt with by shutting down current flow before disconnecting wires. Used to be I had to put a screwdriver on terminals, but MC connectors make it safer.
Battery, if lithium, probably needs precharge resistor to avoid big spark, welded parts and blown fuses.

I've been very deliberate about measuring voltage, connecting with insulated plugs, etc. but I've gotten careless the second time around.
I got 120V and 240V portable GFIC for work, and will get them for home too. Hardwired things can be counted on, but the device under test, you never know.
 
OK, another dumb question.

1. Each solar panel in my system has a ground screw.

2. My all in one EG 6500EX thing has a solar input with a Positive and a Negative connection. People call the negative connection a ground.

3. The same 6500EX has a battery connection with a Negative cable that some call a ground.

4. Ditto has an AC input for backup power which has a green ground wire.

5. Ditto also has an AC output which has a green AC ground wire.

So, if I fail to ground one of these grounds, which is the one that is going to kill me?


Can anyone explain why there are so many grounds. I thought there was only one Earth. Maybe I need to attend high school again. I feel like I am missing out on so much!

When I was a threat to the young ladies, we had something called "New Math". Perhaps this is "New Astronomy".
 
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People often call the return or negative wire "ground". For vehicles that is often chassis.

Don't confuse "ground" with "negative" in your PV system. The photovoltaic positive and negative wires generally should not be grounded, unless the equipment does that. Some do internally, and need you to not ground externally, so faults (shorts) to ground can be detected.

Sometimes battery negative is grounded. Some part of battery is required to be grounded for higher voltage systems (like 48V nominal.)

AC wires, neutral needs to be grounded. Often at the utility meter, and inverter gets separate neutral and ground wires from there. If off-grid you bond it in the inverter or in breaker panel, also connect to ground rod.

What will likely shock you is PV panel frames or inverter chassis, if you don't connect them together with a wire. Several people here experienced that when one of the parts was grounded and they touched the other part.

GFCI (RCD) Ground Fault Circuit Interrupters are a good thing to use, especially around wet locations.

What is most likely to kill you is AC through the heart. But I haven't grabbed 500VDC from PV, so I can't personally report on its effectiveness (as I can AC.)
 
Wait a minute!

You said "If off-grid you bond it in the inverter or in breaker panel, also connect to ground rod."

You bond what? I listed 5 grounds (somewhat). Are you talking about 4 & 5?



So on my 6500EX, I am keeping the green ground wire of the AC input from mains in place, and the green ground wire of the AC output to my distribution box(es) in place, and adding another wire to these two connectors to a ground rod?

Right?

If "neutral needs to be grounded", why is a ground wire needed?
 
"neutral needs to be grounded"? Make that "Neutral needs to be bonded to ground"
I didn't use the standard terminology.

Ground wire is needed to keep all chassis at the same potential. It goes to a ground rod so same potential as the earth.
Ground wire is separate from neutral wire, so ground wire never carries current except in a fault condition.
If a fault condition, it trips a breaker and current stops flowing (except PV frame ground wire, which might carry full current continuously).

"bond" neutral to ground at exactly one place in the entire system.

Some systems (typically mobile) switch neutral from shore power input and bond it to ground when off-grid.
My system has neutral and ground hardwired to utility input (always bonded at meter.)
An off-grid system would bond neutral to ground somewhere, maybe inverter or breaker panel.

Your particular inverter may have a special way of dealing with neutral/ground bonding. Many threads on it, I can't keep track of the various brands and models.


Your #2 (solar panel negative lead) I would NOT connect to ground.

Your #3 (Battery negative) I might connect to ground, in compliance with code. But some devices (Midnight Classic SCC with ground-fault) I think do not allow that external connection, because they have the connection internally and need to sense the ground current.)

Your other #1, #4, #5 I would connect to ground.
 
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