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If you had 2000 dollars

t9gear

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I am looking to power my tropical greenhouse here in the pacific northwest with solar off grid power. My budget is 2000 dollars.
What i would like to power are fans, some led lights a humidfier that runs 24/7 (Nepenthes and other high humidity carnivores plants)
Maybe also a 1500w heater.
I have been watching tons of videos, but product keeps changing from all in one systems to part by part. I rather keep it simple. So my question to you is what would you buy if you had nothing and wanted to build something in the 2k range

Thank you
 
Powering a 1500 watt heater for $2K doesn't seem close enough to reality to even start crunching the numbers.
 
Anything heating/cooling related is hugely power intensive. I doubt you can do that with 2K. How much does that humidifier draw?
If you can use alternatives for heating you can at least take that heater out of the equation. At my place, this is taken care of by wood - not a wood stove, but a 3000L water tank to act as thermal battery. Still, 2K is very tight...
 
I just pieced together and bought 3 separate simple 24v systems for some off-grid cabins, that averaged about 2k each. It's doable. My needs and your needs seem darn similar...until you mentioned the heater.
I am in the Savannah area and the coldest it gets here ever is 30F, and that just for a minute in the middle of the night a few times a year. I have not decided exactly what I'll use but it will most definitely be wood, propane or a fun and practical combination.
The systems can run the heater but only for a few hours, running it totally down. It's not worth it.
If you can think of another way to do hot things (except maybe for a few minutes here and there), i.e. heating and cooking, I'd be happy to share what I put together.
 
Anything heating/cooling related is hugely power intensive. I doubt you can do that with 2K. How much does that humidifier draw?
If you can use alternatives for heating you can at least take that heater out of the equation. At my place, this is taken care of by wood - not a wood stove, but a 3000L water tank to act as thermal battery. Still, 2K is very tight...
Ok I knew I was reaching with that heater. How about just fans and led lights?
 
I just pieced together and bought 3 separate simple 24v systems for some off-grid cabins, that averaged about 2k each. It's doable. My needs and your needs seem darn similar...until you mentioned the heater.
I am in the Savannah area and the coldest it gets here ever is 30F, and that just for a minute in the middle of the night a few times a year. I have not decided exactly what I'll use but it will most definitely be wood, propane or a fun and practical combination.
The systems can run the heater but only for a few hours, running it totally down. It's not worth it.
If you can think of another way to do hot things (except maybe for a few minutes here and there), i.e. heating and cooking, I'd be happy to share what I put together.
I would like to see what you put together. I do have a propane heater that I can add so that would take care of that
 
I would build a alternator to motor generator to add to a separate battery bank and put some stuff on one set up and the rest on solar set up . Or a perpetual magnetic generator .
 
I am looking to power my tropical greenhouse here in the pacific northwest with solar off grid power. My budget is 2000 dollars.
What i would like to power are fans, some led lights a humidfier that runs 24/7 (Nepenthes and other high humidity carnivores plants)
Maybe also a 1500w heater.
I have been watching tons of videos, but product keeps changing from all in one systems to part by part. I rather keep it simple. So my question to you is what would you buy if you had nothing and wanted to build something in the 2k range

Thank you

I'm building a Soar Powered Greenhouse as soon as my snow melt, the design is for a year round system, so I have been doing excessive research being that I am in Northern Ontario Canada. So I'll share a few tidbits that would apply to you as well.

Heating with solar
is a fickle business, make the wrong choices and your eating batteries. ANY Resistance device (anything with an element) is not only a power pig but hard on inverters and batteries. You state your in the Pacific North West, ok THAT is a big area and has varied climate zones. The best & most cost effective "Heating" solution is to go Solar Hydronic where you use Solar Water heating Panels, storing the hot water produced in an insulated water tank and then using a low pressure slow flow 12/24V pump attached to a temp sensing thermostat. You can either run 3/4" - 7/8" Pex in the floor (can be buried in the soil (sand layer) and can maintain temps that way, or better, with a proper manifold system, can be distributed underneath the raised beds/tables themselves.
Great Info Here: https://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/WaterHeating/water_heating.htm
-- Propane Heating Tip: I use a Recovered RV Furnace which I took out of a 5 yr old wrecked 20' Camper, it is a Suburban NTS-20 which is direct vent , uses 12VDC and has electronic ignition. With Dual Tank regulator, thermostat and the furnace it cost me $300. Quite efficient and works I use it to keep my Powerhouse / Pumphouse @ 50F/10C throughout winter . I gave it it's own AGM & 100W/12V solar panel. (backed up with my solar system)

Lighting: Ohh boy, another one that's tricky. HPS & MH Lighting is high watt and uses a crap load of power which generates tremendous heat (read waste power), not really practical unless you have a field of solar panels and honking huge batteries. The GOOD News is that LED Grow Lights have blossomed in the past few years and some really remarkable advances have been made in that regard. The price points are wide & varied and so is Quality !!! There is shlock & there is great stuff out there so very cautious & careful research is needed for that, I'm looking but have no conclusions as yet, I am leaning a certain direction but... Most are capable of being switched from Grow Mode to Bloom Mode with the one light fixture, they are power frugal obviously and do not generate excess heat, Decent ones are NOT Cheap, especially those that are tested & certified grow lights that have verified light spectrum tests and such.

Budget: Ohh the fugly one indeed... Above excluded ! $2K USD is a squeeze but not impossible to get a respectable Starter System built that you can expand on. The rule of KISS is best applied here. Starter system, meaning get you up & running "basically" but will need further enhancement and addition to fully complete for purpose.
- The MPP & Growatt all in one units are getting great reviews. These are DIFFERENT than many others, they can have their internal components replaced / repaired if there is a failure (most all in ones don't). Growatt is similar to MPP but with some improvements and more warranty etc but at a slightly higher cost. Will has reviews on both. A 24 Volt System that outputs 120VAC / 4000W would likely fit the initial bill. The MPP & GW's can be "stacked" so you can add another in parallel to increase capacity "properly & cleanly".

- Solar Panels can be bought NEW but now there are many really good deals on used "tested" panels available from various sources. If your in the USA, then by all means 1st place to look is https://www.santansolar.com/product/ and that will give you some ideas o $$ quickly, many here have gotten panels from them and are tickled pink with them.

- Batteries: Ohh Boy, the DEEP End. This is where "Penny Wise & Dollar Foolish" rules kick in fast & hard. There is ---- Lead Acid of various flavours at various prices point, NONE are created equal ! Anything used for solar is going to be heavy, big and pricey as deep cycle batteries aren't cheap, so proper deep cycle lead will cost you a god chunk of cash up front, 1st timers usually kill them in under 5 years (no matter the intentions and willingness to be good to them). Remember that Lead Batteries can ONLY be discharged to a max of 50% of capacity, else damage & hastened death.
-- LifePo4 has dropped a LOT in prices but still more than Lead, they will easily outlive the Lead and with proper settings will give you 10+ years and maintenance free (maintenance is what get's Fu-barred with lead, good intentions are moot). EX: 8 Pieces 260AH LFP US $678.32 Ship to United States US $415.20 Total US $1,093.52 That makes 24V/280AH 6720 kWh or 2X 12V/280AH 3360 kWh ea. of which you can use 80% very comfortably.
-- GOTCHA'S: The thing everyone forgets when starting to look at this. BOS (Balance of System) which is wiring, fuses & breakers, racking and all the extra bits & pieces to put it together to make it work. This always stings, even when no one wants to admit it !! It's because $5 on this fuse, $20 on that breaker, $40 for that wire & $20 on this, that & the other thing and then next thing you know, death by a thousand small expenses. We Always notice the $500+ purchase but the $20 ones always sneak under the radar till the end of day tally up and you facepalm and say WTF did I get into. Therefore I always tell people to expect at least add 25% $ ON TOP of major hardware for BOS. This is also where MANY screw up ! Because they are "down to the wire" and end up buying the cheapest of the BOS stuff, crappy parts always end up costing you when you have to replace them and anything they may have damaged. This is one spot with Penny Pinching can really sting you HARD but with cautious & well planned buying you CAN save money and get good quality bits. We here, have such experiences and share where & what to get and what to avoid. Example: Blue Sea Products are Top Quality and $$ but much of it is Bussman Products, which can be bought without BlueSea packaging (like auto sector & others) at considerable savings. There are several things like that.

I Hope that helps a bit.
Time to pour Coffee #2 being 04:45am
Steve
 
2x valence u27's (~$900-1000) just cause i use them and dont want to deal with china shipping. About 600w of panels (~$500) and a epever triron 40A. The rest will go to fuses, wiring, mounting, aili battery monitor. You will also need an inverter...probably will have to stick with plain MSW like from walmart. I use them personally.

You can get it done with lead batteries at half the cost of the lifepo4's. But in order to achieve the proper c8-c10 charge rate you will need about $400-500 more in panels. Then you have all the crap that comes with them.

The other issue is idk if 600w is enough. We dont know what your dehumidifier will draw.
 
Last edited:
I'm building a Soar Powered Greenhouse as soon as my snow melt, the design is for a year round system, so I have been doing excessive research being that I am in Northern Ontario Canada. So I'll share a few tidbits that would apply to you as well.

Heating with solar is a fickle business, make the wrong choices and your eating batteries. ANY Resistance device (anything with an element) is not only a power pig but hard on inverters and batteries. You state your in the Pacific North West, ok THAT is a big area and has varied climate zones. The best & most cost effective "Heating" solution is to go Solar Hydronic where you use Solar Water heating Panels, storing the hot water produced in an insulated water tank and then using a low pressure slow flow 12/24V pump attached to a temp sensing thermostat. You can either run 3/4" - 7/8" Pex in the floor (can be buried in the soil (sand layer) and can maintain temps that way, or better, with a proper manifold system, can be distributed underneath the raised beds/tables themselves.
Great Info Here: https://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/WaterHeating/water_heating.htm
-- Propane Heating Tip: I use a Recovered RV Furnace which I took out of a 5 yr old wrecked 20' Camper, it is a Suburban NTS-20 which is direct vent , uses 12VDC and has electronic ignition. With Dual Tank regulator, thermostat and the furnace it cost me $300. Quite efficient and works I use it to keep my Powerhouse / Pumphouse @ 50F/10C throughout winter . I gave it it's own AGM & 100W/12V solar panel. (backed up with my solar system)

Lighting: Ohh boy, another one that's tricky. HPS & MH Lighting is high watt and uses a crap load of power which generates tremendous heat (read waste power), not really practical unless you have a field of solar panels and honking huge batteries. The GOOD News is that LED Grow Lights have blossomed in the past few years and some really remarkable advances have been made in that regard. The price points are wide & varied and so is Quality !!! There is shlock & there is great stuff out there so very cautious & careful research is needed for that, I'm looking but have no conclusions as yet, I am leaning a certain direction but... Most are capable of being switched from Grow Mode to Bloom Mode with the one light fixture, they are power frugal obviously and do not generate excess heat, Decent ones are NOT Cheap, especially those that are tested & certified grow lights that have verified light spectrum tests and such.

Budget: Ohh the fugly one indeed... Above excluded ! $2K USD is a squeeze but not impossible to get a respectable Starter System built that you can expand on. The rule of KISS is best applied here. Starter system, meaning get you up & running "basically" but will need further enhancement and addition to fully complete for purpose.
- The MPP & Growatt all in one units are getting great reviews. These are DIFFERENT than many others, they can have their internal components replaced / repaired if there is a failure (most all in ones don't). Growatt is similar to MPP but with some improvements and more warranty etc but at a slightly higher cost. Will has reviews on both. A 24 Volt System that outputs 120VAC / 4000W would likely fit the initial bill. The MPP & GW's can be "stacked" so you can add another in parallel to increase capacity "properly & cleanly".

- Solar Panels can be bought NEW but now there are many really good deals on used "tested" panels available from various sources. If your in the USA, then by all means 1st place to look is https://www.santansolar.com/product/ and that will give you some ideas o $$ quickly, many here have gotten panels from them and are tickled pink with them.

- Batteries: Ohh Boy, the DEEP End. This is where "Penny Wise & Dollar Foolish" rules kick in fast & hard. There is ---- Lead Acid of various flavours at various prices point, NONE are created equal ! Anything used for solar is going to be heavy, big and pricey as deep cycle batteries aren't cheap, so proper deep cycle lead will cost you a god chunk of cash up front, 1st timers usually kill them in under 5 years (no matter the intentions and willingness to be good to them). Remember that Lead Batteries can ONLY be discharged to a max of 50% of capacity, else damage & hastened death.
-- LifePo4 has dropped a LOT in prices but still more than Lead, they will easily outlive the Lead and with proper settings will give you 10+ years and maintenance free (maintenance is what get's Fu-barred with lead, good intentions are moot). EX: 8 Pieces 260AH LFP US $678.32 Ship to United States US $415.20 Total US $1,093.52 That makes 24V/280AH 6720 kWh or 2X 12V/280AH 3360 kWh ea. of which you can use 80% very comfortably.
-- GOTCHA'S: The thing everyone forgets when starting to look at this. BOS (Balance of System) which is wiring, fuses & breakers, racking and all the extra bits & pieces to put it together to make it work. This always stings, even when no one wants to admit it !! It's because $5 on this fuse, $20 on that breaker, $40 for that wire & $20 on this, that & the other thing and then next thing you know, death by a thousand small expenses. We Always notice the $500+ purchase but the $20 ones always sneak under the radar till the end of day tally up and you facepalm and say WTF did I get into. Therefore I always tell people to expect at least add 25% $ ON TOP of major hardware for BOS. This is also where MANY screw up ! Because they are "down to the wire" and end up buying the cheapest of the BOS stuff, crappy parts always end up costing you when you have to replace them and anything they may have damaged. This is one spot with Penny Pinching can really sting you HARD but with cautious & well planned buying you CAN save money and get good quality bits. We here, have such experiences and share where & what to get and what to avoid. Example: Blue Sea Products are Top Quality and $$ but much of it is Bussman Products, which can be bought without BlueSea packaging (like auto sector & others) at considerable savings. There are several things like that.

I Hope that helps a bit.
Time to pour Coffee #2 being 04:45am
Steve
Thanks for this phenomenal response. You covered all. Later I will look into the all in one you mentioned. And yes I will put a side a few bucks extra for those gotcha moments
 
Also I just looked up the hydrofogger and the numbers are
110volts/60hz/ 0.9amp
 
.9a x 10 x 24hrs = 216A

That pretty much blows your budget
 
Pacific Northwest, with Portland being at 45.5 North...

I'm at 35.5 North (Indiana) and I'm doing earth sheltered,
I have experience with earth sheltered in root cellar, cold storage & home.
The reason the home went earth sheltered was to heat/cool with power available, instead of struggling to make enough power for conventional building construction.
Think outside the box...

My current 'Retirement' project is a greenhouse to grow oranges...

The base is about 5' below ground level,
Angled glass faces south, the reflective back drop angles light down to plants/soil.
(Black) Barrels of water work as passive solar heat mass, keeping the temp stable.

I suggest pipes buried at least 8' into the ground, these store summer heat in the soil (Banking Heat) while providing cooler air into the greenhouse to regulate temp,
In winter the heat can be extracted the same way, through thermal tubes.

For long winters, I would use solar thermal panels, they make hot water (or anti-freeze solution) circulated through liquid tubes in the ground and/or through the thermal mass barrels.
Again, storing heat without a lot of power, I just use a low current consumption pump...
Since the pump will only run in the daytime when sun is shining, Solar PV is about perfect for this pump.

With angled glass, sun gets a direct path into your building, strikes a surface, changes frequency and leaves it's energy behind as heat.
With a metalized surface on backstop insulation, the light is reflected down into the subsurface soil, plants, barrels, etc.
This gives you angled sides of your greenhouse, which isn't typical, but like I said, think outside the 'Box' construction...

Turning solar into electricity (conversion, with losses),
Then regulating that production (more losses),
Then trying to store that energy in batteries is BIG losses,
Then extracting that energy with losses from the battery with those losses,
The only somewhat efficient part is electricity to heat, 1 Watt makes 3.12 BTU of heat, which is about 100% efficient.
HUGE losses everywhere else in an off grid PV system using only electricity to heat...
Fossil fuel or closed cycle (wood/corn burner) would be much more efficient to heat with.

Earth sheltered (geothermal) makes for higher humidity with a natural floor, exchanges heat quite efficiently, and gives you a BIG BOOST on your heating energy.
The same with air tubes in trenches to exchange geothermal heat, particularly when you recirculate the air in the greenhouse, store excess heat all summer, extract a large portion of that in winter.

I stumbled across the heat tubes when digging out 150 year old root cellars, they used clay tile pipe sections, I used much less and easier to work with black corrigrated drainage pipe, using some that had perforated holes to import moisture into my root cellar, and what I'm using for my greenhouse.
(Root cellars work best when at 85%-95% humidity, so natural floor and drains at ground level so it doesn't flood)

It's a LOT of digging, but I rented a backhoe, every Friday evening (Saturday rental) and returned it every Monday morning so I actually got more than 2 days on a one day rental.
The deeper the better, below 'Frost' line to be sure, so something called an 'Extendable Boom' let's you dig deeper.
You won't always find an extendable boom for rent, so shop around...

While the rental & tube are in your price range, it's a lot of 'Sweat Equity' involved, a LOT of work, which most people just aren't willing to do...
The 'Technology' of air tubes is several hundred years old, like 'French Drains' under your build that let you control the water table and control the temps/humidity in your root cellar/green house/cold storage.
You can't argue with something that didn't use electrical power for several hundred years, even though you might think of it as 'Crude', it still works quite well.
Again, thinking 'Outside The Box' of modern 'Powered Everything'...
(You can take a vacation and it works fine without you, some recently discovered European wine cellars have been discovered that have worked for centuries without humans even knowing about them anymore)

A SMALL solar system can power fans to circulate the geothermal stored energy, warm or cooled, for very few Watts... More like a heat pump than furnace & air conditioner, since the temp moves just a little from ground temp, you don't need big heating/cooling units...

Just something an old hillbilly learned from our ancestors, didn't invent it, just used what people a lot smarter than me figured out over centuries of trial & error...
Worked then, still works, but a little electricity helps things along, like with thermostats instead of a human taking the temp and opening/closing vents...
 
Pacific Northwest, with Portland being at 45.5 North...

I'm at 35.5 North (Indiana) and I'm doing earth sheltered,
I have experience with earth sheltered in root cellar, cold storage & home.
The reason the home went earth sheltered was to heat/cool with power available, instead of struggling to make enough power for conventional building construction.
Think outside the box...

My current 'Retirement' project is a greenhouse to grow oranges...

The base is about 5' below ground level,
Angled glass faces south, the reflective back drop angles light down to plants/soil.
(Black) Barrels of water work as passive solar heat mass, keeping the temp stable.

I suggest pipes buried at least 8' into the ground, these store summer heat in the soil (Banking Heat) while providing cooler air into the greenhouse to regulate temp,
In winter the heat can be extracted the same way, through thermal tubes.

For long winters, I would use solar thermal panels, they make hot water (or anti-freeze solution) circulated through liquid tubes in the ground and/or through the thermal mass barrels.
Again, storing heat without a lot of power, I just use a low current consumption pump...
Since the pump will only run in the daytime when sun is shining, Solar PV is about perfect for this pump.

With angled glass, sun gets a direct path into your building, strikes a surface, changes frequency and leaves it's energy behind as heat.
With a metalized surface on backstop insulation, the light is reflected down into the subsurface soil, plants, barrels, etc.
This gives you angled sides of your greenhouse, which isn't typical, but like I said, think outside the 'Box' construction...

Turning solar into electricity (conversion, with losses),
Then regulating that production (more losses),
Then trying to store that energy in batteries is BIG losses,
Then extracting that energy with losses from the battery with those losses,
The only somewhat efficient part is electricity to heat, 1 Watt makes 3.12 BTU of heat, which is about 100% efficient.
HUGE losses everywhere else in an off grid PV system using only electricity to heat...
Fossil fuel or closed cycle (wood/corn burner) would be much more efficient to heat with.

Earth sheltered (geothermal) makes for higher humidity with a natural floor, exchanges heat quite efficiently, and gives you a BIG BOOST on your heating energy.
The same with air tubes in trenches to exchange geothermal heat, particularly when you recirculate the air in the greenhouse, store excess heat all summer, extract a large portion of that in winter.

I stumbled across the heat tubes when digging out 150 year old root cellars, they used clay tile pipe sections, I used much less and easier to work with black corrigrated drainage pipe, using some that had perforated holes to import moisture into my root cellar, and what I'm using for my greenhouse.
(Root cellars work best when at 85%-95% humidity, so natural floor and drains at ground level so it doesn't flood)

It's a LOT of digging, but I rented a backhoe, every Friday evening (Saturday rental) and returned it every Monday morning so I actually got more than 2 days on a one day rental.
The deeper the better, below 'Frost' line to be sure, so something called an 'Extendable Boom' let's you dig deeper.
You won't always find an extendable boom for rent, so shop around...

While the rental & tube are in your price range, it's a lot of 'Sweat Equity' involved, a LOT of work, which most people just aren't willing to do...
The 'Technology' of air tubes is several hundred years old, like 'French Drains' under your build that let you control the water table and control the temps/humidity in your root cellar/green house/cold storage.
You can't argue with something that didn't use electrical power for several hundred years, even though you might think of it as 'Crude', it still works quite well.
Again, thinking 'Outside The Box' of modern 'Powered Everything'...
(You can take a vacation and it works fine without you, some recently discovered European wine cellars have been discovered that have worked for centuries without humans even knowing about them anymore)

A SMALL solar system can power fans to circulate the geothermal stored energy, warm or cooled, for very few Watts... More like a heat pump than furnace & air conditioner, since the temp moves just a little from ground temp, you don't need big heating/cooling units...

Just something an old hillbilly learned from our ancestors, didn't invent it, just used what people a lot smarter than me figured out over centuries of trial & error...
Worked then, still works, but a little electricity helps things along, like with thermostats instead of a human taking the temp and opening/closing vents...
Thanks for this. Very interesting take on a greenhouse build. also to everyone that commented thanks for bringing me back to reality. I guess I have to settle for lights and fans for now and later build on to it.
I live in the south Seattle area btw
But even with those two alone I will run the numbers
 
If you use a timer and run it 12hrs or something youll be fine.
 
Thanks for this. Very interesting take on a greenhouse build. also to everyone that commented thanks for bringing me back to reality. I guess I have to settle for lights and fans for now and later build on to it.
I live in the south Seattle area btw
But even with those two alone I will run the numbers
Oddly @JeepHammer is about 80% of what I am doing too and We HAVE NOT Compared notes on our Greenhouse plans. Mine is slightly different due to location, being on the south face of a 1700' ridge overlooking 3 valleys and having sandy loam soil and a LOT of "eratic's" (rocks to 50 Ton boulder's left by the glacial retreats. BTW, Heat Tubes / Earth Tubes were used from the early days of the Roman Empire and they picked up in Assyria. IT WORKS !

BTW: do a little research on "walipini greenhouse" and you might consider this book (available as e-book too) https://www.amazon.com/Earth-Shelte...d+Solar+Greenhouse+Book&qid=1585945798&sr=8-1
 
One of my customers has a wood
Thanks for this. Very interesting take on a greenhouse build. also to everyone that commented thanks for bringing me back to reality. I guess I have to settle for lights and fans for now and later build on to it.
I live in the south Seattle area btw
But even with those two alone I will run the numbers
How warm does this thing need to be at night. I get it that it won't hold a lot of heat at night but will it hold any. I still think it is possible for 2000 even if it's not perfect
 
It's basically a basement, with a glass wall facing south and angled insulation on the north side.
The glass is angled to let light directly in (90° to winter sun) and it works quite well on small scale, haven't got the full greenhouse done yet.

We heat the home most winters with a 'Green Room', letting sun in that hits a wall/floor.
The wall has vents at top & bottom, we can let cool air in the bottom, hot air out at the top to heat the house,
Simply close vents at night when the room cools down.

The sun shines about every day, so no sense in just venting the heat when I can store it in heat tubes/ground and recover it months later...
Thermal mass is 100% efficient (black barrels or hot water tank) while geothermal storage in common ground isn't that efficient, but the ground itself will keep you well above freezing, quite comfortable actually.
My home is under about 5' of dirt at it's thinnest and stays in the 60°F range year around.

The greenhouse will have a lot of less insulated surfaces, so I don't figure I'll keep 60s in the winter...
That's where a LOT of heat scavenging will come in.
 

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