Install and Operation of the SUNGOLD 10KW 48V SPLIT PHASE SOLAR INVERTER

[Kenny_]

P.S. still not word on my battery 'problem' from Sungold....the asked if all the comm cables were connected and connected to inverter....I said ... well duh! Yes!

I sent them another followup email with this screen grab and asking again why this one battery is behaving differently that the other and the I think it should be replaced under warranty. I just don't understand why it is acting so much differently than the other four (whether charging or discharging). This is after charging #5 up to the same levels as the others (in fact a bit more) and then letting the system run with all batteries enabled as normal. #5 dropped back down and went below the others but still at this point was supplying most of the power out. I just don't get it.
Something is different, something is wrong.

View attachment 182375

Well Cindy Lou Who replied:

support@sungoldpower.com​

1:52 AM (2 hours ago)

Dear Mr Kenny A. Chaffin,

We have confirmed with our engineers and they said it is normal.
The battery #1 is connected with the inverter with communication cable. The electricity usage ranking is 12345, and the battery #5 is the furthest. The voltage of battery #5 will be high at the beginning, and then the batteries will return voltage to each other - from the battery #5 output to the battery #1234, so the consumption of the battery #5 is the highest.
You can also swap the order between the batteries and test it out.

Best Regards
Cindy

....


I already Swapped both the physical position and the communication addressing One at a Time and the problem follows the battery. The are connected in a 'diagonal' wiring - the Positive from the inverter is connected to Battery #1 and the Negative from the inverter is connected to Battery #5. The Problem still exists.

How do I return and replace this defective battery?

 

[42OhmsPA]

Well Cindy Lou Who replied:

support@sungoldpower.com​

1:52 AM (2 hours ago)

Dear Mr Kenny A. Chaffin,

We have confirmed with our engineers and they said it is normal.
The battery #1 is connected with the inverter with communication cable. The electricity usage ranking is 12345, and the battery #5 is the furthest. The voltage of battery #5 will be high at the beginning, and then the batteries will return voltage to each other - from the battery #5 output to the battery #1234, so the consumption of the battery #5 is the highest.
You can also swap the order between the batteries and test it out.

Best Regards
Cindy

....


I already Swapped both the physical position and the communication addressing One at a Time and the problem follows the battery. The are connected in a 'diagonal' wiring - the Positive from the inverter is connected to Battery #1 and the Negative from the inverter is connected to Battery #5. The Problem still exists.

How do I return and replace this defective battery?

Lol.
Explain to her they are not wired inappropriately... They are wired so even current is drawn through the batteries with the negative to 1 and positive to 5... Have them explain that one. Also explain you've already swapped the batteries.

Really I don't think it's defective, just out of balance. If you want to test it, isolate it and load it down with a 50a draw and see how long it runs and what the cells voltages show near empty, then recharge to full and see what the voltages show.

 

[Kenny_]

Lol.
Explain to her they are not wired inappropriately... They are wired so even current is drawn through the batteries with the negative to 1 and positive to 5... Have them explain that one. Also explain you've already swapped the batteries.

Really I don't think it's defective, just out of balance. If you want to test it, isolate it and load it down with a 50a draw and see how long it runs and what the cells voltages show near empty, then recharge to full and see what the voltages show.

Yeah, I told her that and I agree it may not be defective but it's definitely acting differently. I'm just trying to set the groundwork and feel them out at Sungold about warrant/returns....

I have a bench charger on the way and I may pull #5 out of the system and give it hell....

I did recharge it from solar yesterday with other batteries disconnected (not to 100% but above the other 4) and it now is at the bottom but still supplying most of the current....

trying hard to learn and understand.... may be that as you say it just needs some exercise.... I didn't realize I was going to have to babysit my Solar Power System... I was hoping to plug it in and pretty much forget it but damn sure doesn't seem to be that way.

 

[Kenny_]

Well...when it rains it pours! Cloudy/cold today....batteries dropping and guess what UNDERVOLTAGE ALARM on Battery #2 ... which is what started all this.... Cell #7 at 2.739....Damn... took pics sent to Cindy Lou Who...
Going to try to reset/charge now...

You know what though...I'm thinking these Sungold batteries are shit!!!

(or maybe I just don't know what I'm doing or not charging/managing them properly)

Arrrgh...

So advice???
Help?

 

[Crowz]

It may have a bad cell. Battery 2 has been fine so far right? Its not the 3,5 swap stuff right?

 

[Kenny_]

A neophyte question....how would I force charge all the batteries from the grid (via inverter) without waiting on them to hit bottom?
I assume probably by changing parameters but maybe that's too complicated...dunno....

I find this battery management stuff a real PITA. It should just work! <crying>

So I the error on the battery cleared after I disconnected/connected the battery via the breaker (not sure why) but the error persisted on the Inverter until I unplugged the Comm Cable... it's clear now but cell 7 is still low at the same voltage...even loser 2.734.... WTF.... it's all VOODOO!!

 

[Kenny_]

It may have a bad cell. Battery 2 has been fine so far right? Its not the 3,5 swap stuff right?

No it got an Undervoltage error a week or so ago (would have to look back) but that's what started all this with me noticing, checking etc SOC levels and etc which is why I noticed Battery #5 (#3 at the time before I moved it) was acting peculiar ... different than the other four.

Now checking all the battery displays directly I see a few UV errors on all of them and a couple of OV errors....

Not sure what (if anything) I'm doing wrong or not doing properly.

 

[Hedges]

One battery alarms for cell low voltage. What SoC are the remaining batteries?
A single cell will hit bottom first, but I hope not before other batteries get into the lower knee.

In that case, you need to manage loads during times of poor production.

 

[42OhmsPA]

A neophyte question....how would I force charge all the batteries from the grid (via inverter) without waiting on them to hit bottom?
I assume probably by changing parameters but maybe that's too complicated...dunno....

I find this battery management stuff a real PITA. It should just work! <crying>

01 utility 06 solar and utility 28 pick your amperage.

 

[Crowz]

A neophyte question....how would I force charge all the batteries from the grid (via inverter) without waiting on them to hit bottom?
I assume probably by changing parameters but maybe that's too complicated...dunno....

I find this battery management stuff a real PITA. It should just work! <crying>

That one is easy. Set it to sub in place of sbu. It will run on the grid and charge the batteries. Leave it that way for 2 days or so and if they look ok balanced wise flip it back to sbu.

 

[Kenny_]

One battery alarms for cell low voltage. What SoC are the remaining batteries?
A single cell will hit bottom first, but I hope not before other batteries get into the lower knee.

In that case, you need to manage loads during times of poor production.

See the graph above from my SA Screen capture! Battery #5 is the lowest (that's the one I've been worried about)...but Battery #2 now has twice caused an undervoltage alarm and caused switch to grid. Last time I was able to get it charging all the batteries and let it run until Battery #5 (then #3 would not fully charge to 100% SOC while the others including #2 did).

???

 

[Kenny_]

01 utility 06 solar and utility 28 pick your amperage.

Yes! It was the #01 UTI I was missing.... on grid now, batteries charging....will let it run til full (or till all but Bat 5 is full if it does what it did last time and stop at 94.6 % SOC...

Than you Guys!!! Much Much Much Appreciated!!

 

[Kenny_]

Low cell in Pack/Bat #2 is definitely coming up now...

 

[Hedges]

Pack #5 is 22.9% SoC, 48.8V, 3.047V average cell.

Looks like we'd rather no cells hit minimum until 2.6V average.



For now, you can only access about 80% of capacity without this happening.

Pack 2, lowest cell is 2.764V.
Looks to me like that may be within the flat range for higher current draw (30A to 40A in above picture.)
Can you safely set Low-voltage limit to 2.25V?

(note I have no experience with LiFePO4, or other lithium for that matter. Heed my suggestions at your own peril.)

 

[Kenny_]

...well ...

I'm writing a missive to Cindy Lou Who right now.... after charging all night the four batteries had all hit 100% by about 6PM but Battery #5 is still at 96.4% SOC this morning... I have seen it notch up a couple of teenths of a percent to 96.6 % so maybe it is still charging but this is ridiculous - the deviant behavior clearly indicates something wrong and the battery should be replaced but Cindy/Support have been ignoring my emails for days now...I'm screaming into the abyss.

I've not sent the email yet because as I watch the Battery #5 is ticking up very slowly by .1 % increases...so perhaps it is still trying to reach 100% SOC....guess I'll standby before sending the email but damn... this is ridiculous, irritating, annoying and just plain not right to spend $10k on a (actually small) system like this and have it so non-Ready for Prime Time. Batteries not charging, erroring out with Under and Over Voltages (I've now looked through the record on all five batteries and they all have Under and Over voltage errors just from the short time I've been using them -- some less than a month a couple for about two months.

Frustrating Frustrating Frustrating starting with the Useless Wifi Monitoring connection, Lack of Support, Stalling and Ignoring my emails and issues.. I'm beginning to think it is totally not worth it and this/these systems are just Not Ready for Prime Time. Unfortunately it cost me $10k to find that out.

signed,
Not a Happy Camper.

 

[Kenny_]

...actually battery #5 is now up to 97.1 % SOC...up .5 % in the last hour or so....perhaps it will eventually fully charge...will leave everything as is to see what happens before I contact Sungold again...

 

[Kenny_]

...so any thoughts on what is going on with Battery #5.... is it just trickle charging, floating charging...attempting to reach full/100% SOC?

why is it so slow/behind the other four which hit 100% seven, eight hours ago?

I'm gonna just keep the system in this state and see if I ever reach full charge on #5.

 

[42OhmsPA]

...actually battery #5 is now up to 97.1 % SOC...up .5 % in the last hour or so....perhaps it will eventually fully charge...will leave everything as is to see what happens before I contact Sungold again...

View attachment 182625

3.35V and still taking a charge but reading 100%....???
I'm coming back to this in a few hours after I get some coffee in me and things situated at work.
How long as it been sitting ~3.35V? Did it go above it at all? Please share your battery voltage and current chart from SA for the time you were charging.

I really think your system is fine.

 

[Kenny_]

3.35V and still taking a charge but reading 100%....???
I'm coming back to this in a few hours after I get some coffee in me and things situated at work.
How long as it been sitting ~3.35V? Did it go above it at all? Please share your battery voltage and current chart from SA for the time you were charging.

I really think your system is fine.

Thanks....let me see if I can get a chart...wasn't thinking of that...will take a look now...

 

[Kenny_]

Here ya go.....if it's readable...

 

[Kenny_]

...still charging slowly on battery #5... now at 98% SOC....maybe we'll get there!

 

[42OhmsPA]

...so any thoughts on what is going on with Battery #5.... is it just trickle charging, floating charging...attempting to reach full/100% SOC?

why is it so slow/behind the other four which hit 100% seven, eight hours ago?

I'm gonna just keep the system in this state and see if I ever reach full charge on #5.

Forget about the % focus on the voltage.

Here ya go.....if it's readable...

View attachment 182626

Looks fine to me. Noticed current dropping off when voltage peaked around 5pm.
Your batteries are full. BMS in 5 could have a different firmware or soc / voltage calculations.

I wouldn't hold them above 3.5v / cell for to long... You could be degrading your cells. It's still a little over my head to explain so search for posts from @Steve_S on working voltages, tail current, soc, etc.

 

[Kenny_]

Forget about the % focus on the voltage.

Looks fine to me. Noticed current dropping off when voltage peaked around 5pm.
Your batteries are full. BMS in 5 could have a different firmware or soc / voltage calculations.

I wouldn't hold them above 3.5v / cell for to long... You could be degrading your cells. It's still a little over my head to explain so search for posts from @Steve_S on working voltages, tail current, soc, etc.

I'm gonna keep it going to see if #5 hits 100% ....or stops charging....guess I could turn breakers for 1-4 off...but...will just standby for now...
I just wanna see #5 hit 100% if possible then go back to 'normal' operation .. if there is such a thing.... still cloudy/cold/snowy here today...

#5 currently at 98.8% SOC

 

[Kenny_]

That one is easy. Set it to sub in place of sbu. It will run on the grid and charge the batteries. Leave it that way for 2 days or so and if they look ok balanced wise flip it back to sbu.

This seems to be good advice.... currently as mentioned all at 100% except #5 which is slowly slowly slowly ... moving toward 100% - now at 98.9%

this is likely what it was doing the first time I saw this happen and thought it was stuck at 96.4% ... it was probably just charging very slowly and things went a bit haywire (solar/pv production etc) causing the charging to stop. This time in in 'force charge' til I change the inverter settings.

 

[Kenny_]

and finally got my Xcel bill here's comparing last year to this year....maybe more detail to follow, but looks like an almost 50% savings this month...was a bit of temp difference but that has more to do with Natural Gas (furnace) than electric though I was using electric space heaters to offset natural gas prices last year.

That's only a 16 year payback term.