Is the EG4 18Kpv the best choice for my new installation? Your thoughts please!

[Gold Country Russ]

This will be a rural California Sierra foothill grid-tied installation. I have PG&E NEM-3 authorization to grid-tie a 9.6KW system w/24ea. 400W bifacial panels. I will probably also use a new 750KWH 3,000lb 48V forklift battery and a 10KW propane generator w/300-gal dedicated propane tank. After the initial installation I expect to add 10-12 additional 400W panels and convert the house from propane heating & conventional A/C to heat pump. Please note that we have frequent grid failures with the longest being 6 days. When combined the summers time-of-use A/C cost with the winters propane heating cost the result is shocking. And yes, I do have a forklift so the massive battery will not be a problem. We have lots of sunshine and the temps run from +10 to +110F.
To me it looks like the EG4 18K fits perfectly in all ways. It would make a very clean and simple installation and the AC pass-thru means my full 200A service would be available even with an inverter failure.
Comments and suggestions, please!

 

[FilterGuy]

The early adoptors all speak very highly of the 18Kpv and it seems to match your specs so I would think it would be a good match.

I will probably also use a new 750KWH 3,000lb 48V forklift battery

Tell me more about that. Is that lead acid? What AH rating does it have?

 

[Gold Country Russ]

The early adoptors all speak very highly of the 18Kpv and it seems to match your specs so I would think it would be a good match.

Tell me more about that. Is that lead acid? What AH rating does it have?

750ah/6hr, 1182ah/20hr, & 64.1ah/24hr off-grid, I guess the X.6 capacity would apply to these rates. I found a one-time only, smoking good deal on this specific new forklift battery from a battery dealer. Don't think I can pass it up. With reasonable care it should last 10+ years. Yes, 3,000lb steel-cased flooded lead-acid.

 

[FilterGuy]

750ah/6hr, 1182ah/20hr, & 64.1ah/24hr off-grid, I guess the X.6 capacity would apply to these rates. I found a one-time only, smoking good deal on this specific new forklift battery from a battery dealer. Don't think I can pass it up. With reasonable care it should last 10+ years. Yes, 3,000lb steel-cased flooded lead-acid.

That sounds like a monster of a battery!! 13.6 x 750 = 40.8KWh @ 6H.

However, Have you done an energy audit? With the heat pump, do you have any idea what your daily use will be?

System Energy Audit and Sizing Spread Sheet

To get the spreadsheet, click on the orange button at the top of this page. This sheet is intended to help you plan your system. Fill it out down to the last decimal place, look at the results..... and then make your best guess;) Notes...

diysolarforum.com

 

[Gold Country Russ]

My existing A/C and the future heat pump would require similar KWH in the summer so the main difference will be in the heating season. I want to limit propane use to cooking and a small amount of water heating so want to eliminate the propane furnace. $800+ propane deliveries suck just as bad as $650 power bills. I won't add resistance heating to the new heat pump because we have very limited time with temps below +25F (and a wood stove) so just the heat pump should do fine. That means I will use a lot more KWH in the winter. I should add that the existing A/C uses R22 which is now obsolete so future replacement of the condensing unit and evaporator will be required sometime anyway. Our utility provides us with great usage details, so no energy audit is necessary. The real truth is I have a pallet of 35ea 400w bifacial panels and want to use them all! Buying a future Tesla, probably not.

 

[Zapper77]

. The real truth is I have a pallet of 35ea 400w bifacial panels and want to use them all! Buying a future Tesla, probably not.

Can you have a standalone (off grid) EV charging station.

I'm happy with my EG4 18Kpv AIO

 

[Gold Country Russ]

Can you have a standalone (off grid) EV charging station.

I'm happy with my EG4 18Kpv AIO

I think Will Prouse did it with an EG4 18K & big battery bank!

 

[Gold Country Russ]

Update: Today I bought & picked-up a gently used (360hrs run-time) 10KW natural gas stationary generator. This thing is seriously heavy duty low-speed generator with a water cooled 4 cylinder 1.5L Mitsubishi engine. I need to convert it to propane but that is very simple. So far, I have the panels, the generator, and a 300-gallon propane tank to run it. Still need to order the Sinclair ground mount & make a decision on which "all-in-one" inverter to buy. Making progress!
Looking for more input from everyone on the best inverter for my application.
Happy 4th of July & stay safe.

 

[SignatureSolarJames]

now CEC listed for California!

 

[Coz]

I am wanting to run my 3/4 hp deep well pump, 2.5 ton heat pump / AC unit and my hot water heater. Also my dryer and range - all 240 volt.
I am trying to decide on the Shneider XW pro 6.8 or the new EG4 18k pv. I have been told that either one of these would handle all these 240 volt loads. The unit I purchase would only be doing these 240 volt loads, NO 110 loads. Obviously the well pump and hot water heater are on and off all day long. The AC runs a few hours during the day for about a month or so in the summer and the heat pump runs during the day & night in the spring, fall a about a month in the winter. Once it is 20 degrees or lower, it is no longer in use, so quite a bit of the winter the heat pump / ac is not in use. The dryer runs for about a half hour once a day about 3 days a week. The oven part of the range only gets used a couple of times a month, but one or two of the top burners are used once a day / every day. Anybody have any experience with the EG4 18k running a deep well pump and hot water heater at the same time? Along with a heat pump / ac? I am somewhat convinced that the Schneider XW pro can do it, but I only have reviews to base that on and no one seems to talk about well pumps or hot water heaters with them.

 

[Zapper77]

I am wanting to run my 3/4 hp deep well pump, 2.5 ton heat pump / AC unit and my hot water heater. Also my dryer and range - all 240 volt.
I am trying to decide on the Shneider XW pro 6.8 or the new EG4 18k pv. I have been told that either one of these would handle all these 240 volt loads. The unit I purchase would only be doing these 240 volt loads, NO 110 loads. Obviously the well pump and hot water heater are on and off all day long. The AC runs a few hours during the day for about a month or so in the summer and the heat pump runs during the day & night in the spring, fall a about a month in the winter. Once it is 20 degrees or lower, it is no longer in use, so quite a bit of the winter the heat pump / ac is not in use. The dryer runs for about a half hour once a day about 3 days a week. The oven part of the range only gets used a couple of times a month, but one or two of the top burners are used once a day / every day. Anybody have any experience with the EG4 18k running a deep well pump and hot water heater at the same time? Along with a heat pump / ac? I am somewhat convinced that the Schneider XW pro can do it, but I only have reviews to base that on and no one seems to talk about well pumps or hot water heaters with them.

Assuming
Well Pump 2000 watts (6000 surge)
Heat Pump 2500 watts (7500 surge)
Hot Water 4500 watts
Dryer 5000 watts
Oven 2500-3500
Range 1500-3500


- Dual Oven (4 elements) and 5 burner range can top out around 10000 watts if all heating elements are on.

- Dryers that support eco mode typically limit max wattage. (ECO mode on my dryer tops out at 2000 and drops to 1000 watts after initial heating)

- Hybrid Hot Water tanks in eco mode top out around 1000 watts.

- Some newer well pumps have a soft start and lower energy

 

[Shimmy]

Looking for more input from everyone on the best inverter for my application.

You are a good fit for either model based on stated information. The 18k is slightly better if you plan on going beyond the 35 panels or if your layout maximizes the biracial gain.

To me, the main advantage of the 18k is the wiring area appears to be easier to work with, and it is a bit cheaper. The promise of remote setup is also pretty nice. And you save enough to buy a few extra panels...

What you haven't stated is your estimated summer and winter daily consumption. This might impact things slightly.

What I don't know is the minor impact of running a lead acid battery voltage and decay vs Lithium between the two models.

 

[SignatureSolarJames]

The schneider is a beast with a proven track record and the best power quality in the industry. The 18k will be an easier install, better software, control and monitoring and more scaleable. Both work well with our batteries. You do not need the schneider BMS module with oour gear. If you are doing a first system I would reccommend the 18k though, it is just easy and very powerful if you decide to upgrade

 

[Coz]

The schneider is a beast with a proven track record and the best power quality in the industry. The 18k will be an easier install, better software, control and monitoring and more scaleable. Both work well with our batteries. You do not need the schneider BMS module with oour gear. If you are doing a first system I would reccommend the 18k though, it is just easy and very powerful if you decide to upgrade

Thanks so much James: I appreciate that feedback / info. I have a system in place now taking care of all my 110 v loads. But getting that 240 volt load taking care of takes a bit more research. So either the 18K or the Schneider would only be doing my 240 volt loads. Looking at people installing either, I also gathered that the 18k would be a bit easier for the install. But that the Schneider with its T / transformer is a beast for surges. Thanks again, I will be thinking hard about either one of these. My cart on Signature Solar keeps changing. How many batteries do you think I would need for either system powering the 240 v loads I mentioned here?

 

[Gold Country Russ]

I am wanting to run my 3/4 hp deep well pump, 2.5 ton heat pump / AC unit and my hot water heater. Also my dryer and range - all 240 volt.
I am trying to decide on the Shneider XW pro 6.8 or the new EG4 18k pv. I have been told that either one of these would handle all these 240 volt loads. The unit I purchase would only be doing these 240 volt loads, NO 110 loads. Obviously the well pump and hot water heater are on and off all day long. The AC runs a few hours during the day for about a month or so in the summer and the heat pump runs during the day & night in the spring, fall a about a month in the winter. Once it is 20 degrees or lower, it is no longer in use, so quite a bit of the winter the heat pump / ac is not in use. The dryer runs for about a half hour once a day about 3 days a week. The oven part of the range only gets used a couple of times a month, but one or two of the top burners are used once a day / every day. Anybody have any experience with the EG4 18k running a deep well pump and hot water heater at the same time? Along with a heat pump / ac? I am somewhat convinced that the Schneider XW pro can do it, but I only have reviews to base that on and no one seems to talk about well pumps or hot water heaters with them.

If the AC/Heat pump is a ductless split unit with an inverter drive you are probably ok, but if it has an old school conventional condensing unit you may have problems. The fix would be adding a $300-400 soft start to the condensing. Note that a soft start can also be added to some well pump too. Soft starts dramatically reduce the starting surge and are generator & PV inverter friendly.
Have a great 4th of July!

 

[SignatureSolarJames]

Thanks so much James: I appreciate that feedback / info. I have a system in place now taking care of all my 110 v loads. But getting that 240 volt load taking care of takes a bit more research. So either the 18K or the Schneider would only be doing my 240 volt loads. Looking at people installing either, I also gathered that the 18k would be a bit easier for the install. But that the Schneider with its T / transformer is a beast for surges. Thanks again, I will be thinking hard about either one of these. My cart on Signature Solar keeps changing. How many batteries do you think I would need for either system powering the 240 v loads I mentioned here?

If you are on the grid today the best trick is to watch kwh usage on your house meter from 5pm to 9am the next day

 

[SignatureSolarJames]

A few days of overnight kWh is all you need to size a battery bank. I would divide your number by 88% to factor efficiency in

 

[Coz]

If you are on the grid today the best trick is to watch kwh usage on your house meter from 5pm to 9am the next day

Thank you, I will get right on that and see what I get.

 

[Coz]

If the AC/Heat pump is a ductless split unit with an inverter drive you are probably ok, but if it has an old school conventional condensing unit you may have problems. The fix would be adding a $300-400 soft start to the condensing. Note that a soft start can also be added to some well pump too. Soft starts dramatically reduce the starting surge and are generator & PV inverter friendly.
Have a great 4th of July!

Thank you, you have a great 4th also. The heat pump / AC unit is a brand new (3 weeks old) 2.5 ton Carrier unit. Sits outside and provides central air to the house. It works with my furnace.

 

[Hedges]

I have PG&E NEM-3 authorization to grid-tie a 9.6KW system w/24ea. 400W bifacial panels. I will probably also use a new 750KWH 3,000lb 48V forklift battery and a 10KW propane generator w/300-gal dedicated propane tank.

If you have NEM-3 authorization, nothing special there, that's what everything is going forward. You could make the system bigger or smaller, or add batteries. Maybe need to apply for a new authorization to make major changes. What inverter is named on the authorization?

If you have NEM-2 authorization and mistyped NEM-3, then Congratulations! It offers a special deal that has gone the way of the dodo. But now what you install must fit within a number of limits regarding PV array size, inverter rating, and no battery (at first) if battery wasn't part of the reservation. In that case, battery can be added later.

The stuff about UL listed ESS I've been hearing - likely no way FLA forklift battery is part of a listed ESS. Getting permit office and utility signoff of a batteryless system could be the way to go. Then hook up a battery when no one is watching. Maybe inverter + lead-acid is still possible with compliance to code, but we've been hearing something otherwise.