Is there a thread that is about current LiFePO4 pricing & recommended suppliers

[peatop]

whats dap? I believe here in Aus there is no import taxes below $1000 Au but this doesn't mean there is no local tax gst and so on, im more asking about the product and delivery not about cost issues. these can and will be sorted once landed here, ofc there could be issues if its all sent cod lol but that's not been discussed and wont be. what im basically asking I guess is can I trust this supplier and will I get what's ordered? and if I don't what then? I intend paying via pay pal so if I don't get as advertised pay pal should repay my $$$$$ without question if they say what they mean lol

 

[RobertGreen]

whats dap? I believe here in Aus there is no import taxes below $1000 Au but this doesn't mean there is no local tax gst and so on, im more asking about the product and delivery not about cost issues. these can and will be sorted once landed here, ofc there could be issues if its all sent cod lol but that's not been discussed and wont be. what im basically asking I guess is can I trust this supplier and will I get what's ordered? and if I don't what then? I intend paying via pay pal so if I don't get as advertised pay pal should repay my $$$$$ without question if they say what they mean lol

I haven't yet done any business with Amy Wan/ Shenzen Luyuan, but they are widely touted by a lot of other members here in terms of how well they pack their cells and how they do business. If for some reason everything goes to crap, they have historically speaking been good about resolving issues. And if they don't, that's an advantage to paying with Paypal, as you can open a dispute through paypal about it if theres problems that you can't resolve.

I don't know how it works in Au, but in the USA if you pay with a credit card, you are also able to open a dispute case with your credit card even if for some reason Paypal didn't find in your favor.
If you're not familiar with how Paypal settles disputes, look into it a bit. It's not exactly "no question asked." In an 'item not as described' case they will ask you to present some evidence before they issue a refund. This might involve providing photos of the product, showing communication between you and the seller where the seller advertises the product as excellent, new condition etc etc.
If the items never arrive, then Paypal in my experience, usually processes the 'item not received' cases much more quickly and easily. Essentially, if the seller can't show proof of delivery, they quickly process a refund.
Either way, it could take a couple of weeks to resolve though.

"DAP" is delivered at place, if you do a quick google search, you'll get more info than I can type here. But the short version is that you may be responsible for certain taxes or fees once it is delivered. Most small scale buyers like to pay to have shipments priced out "DDP" or Delivered Duty Paid, meaning that the buyer doesn't pay anything other than the agreed price to the seller; the seller covers import/export duties, customs fees etc if they're applicable.
Again, I'm not Australian, so I can't comment as to what you should or should not expect in terms of those fees, but that's why a lot of people prefer receiving shipments DDP-- it's just easier and simpler for the buyer.

 

[Stepandwolf]

Unfortunately it is that simple. If you want genuine, grade A cells from the factory, you buy through Amy or Luyuan Tech. If you want genuine cells at a discount, you buy through Michael via a group buy.

Anything else is pure speculation. You might buy from vendor DCX, those cells turn out great. You post a review and recommend them. Well 2 months later someone else reads your review and buys from them. Now that DCX has a lot of orders, they can start sending out grade B bulk cells. Then when those cells arrive and get reviewed negatively, orders slow down. So they close the business name, and start a new storefront. Unfortunately most chinese suppliers will screw you over given the chance, or enough time.

A review thread/vendor thread is pretty worthless if the supplier is up to shady things. In my opinion you are better off spending more $ on genuine cells from a reputable vendor. If you can't afford that, you should buy fewer cells. Or, yolo it and risk getting bad cells.

We also know from my recent experience with Basen that they are getting the same matched grade A cells as other vendors, but are selling for a lower price. I know some other people on here have also just recently bought from Basen and will be anxious to hear their results. It is nice that we have at least two options, which is also good for competition.

 

[RobertGreen]

Unfortunately it is that simple. If you want genuine, grade A cells from the factory, you buy through Amy or Luyuan Tech. If you want genuine cells at a discount, you buy through Michael via a group buy.

Anything else is pure speculation. You might buy from vendor DCX, those cells turn out great. You post a review and recommend them. Well 2 months later someone else reads your review and buys from them. Now that DCX has a lot of orders, they can start sending out grade B bulk cells. Then when those cells arrive and get reviewed negatively, orders slow down. So they close the business name, and start a new storefront. Unfortunately most chinese suppliers will screw you over given the chance, or enough time.

A review thread/vendor thread is pretty worthless if the supplier is up to shady things. In my opinion you are better off spending more $ on genuine cells from a reputable vendor. If you can't afford that, you should buy fewer cells. Or, yolo it and risk getting bad cells.

"Anything else is pure speculation" ..... It's not that simple. There's always a risk of issues regardless of who the supplier is, and while some of them have a longer track record of good results than others, nothing is ever set in stone.
Just take a peek at the dumpster fire that is the Michael Caro threads these days lol.

For me, seeing a few reviews from other users who were bold enough to try dealing with lesser known suppliers is quite helpful, and I know I'm not alone in that view.

 

[ghostwriter66]

I haven't yet done any business with Amy Wan/ Shenzen Luyuan, but they are widely touted by a lot of other members here in terms of how well they pack their cells and how they do business. If for some reason everything goes to crap, they have historically speaking been good about resolving issues. And if they don't, that's an advantage to paying with Paypal, as you can open a dispute through paypal about it if theres problems that you can't resolve.

I don't know how it works in Au, but in the USA if you pay with a credit card, you are also able to open a dispute case with your credit card even if for some reason Paypal didn't find in your favor.
If you're not familiar with how Paypal settles disputes, look into it a bit. It's not exactly "no question asked." In an 'item not as described' case they will ask you to present some evidence before they issue a refund. This might involve providing photos of the product, showing communication between you and the seller where the seller advertises the product as excellent, new condition etc etc.
If the items never arrive, then Paypal in my experience, usually processes the 'item not received' cases much more quickly and easily. Essentially, if the seller can't show proof of delivery, they quickly process a refund.
Either way, it could take a couple of weeks to resolve though.

"DAP" is delivered at place, if you do a quick google search, you'll get more info than I can type here. But the short version is that you may be responsible for certain taxes or fees once it is delivered. Most small scale buyers like to pay to have shipments priced out "DDP" or Delivered Duty Paid, meaning that the buyer doesn't pay anything other than the agreed price to the seller; the seller covers import/export duties, customs fees etc if they're applicable.
Again, I'm not Australian, so I can't comment as to what you should or should not expect in terms of those fees, but that's why a lot of people prefer receiving shipments DDP-- it's just easier and simpler for the buyer.

so about a mere 3 years ago buying batteries from China was literally the Wild West .... allot of these ppl didn't even know what Grade A was but they had a sexy website (which in China takes about 30 seconds) and swore the had tons of them at a great price -- ppl bought the hype only to find out that your Grade A was some discarded battery that the manufacturers could not sell as OEM ....

also - LiFePO4 was relatively new and not allot of ppl were jumping on that band wagon

NOW things have changed ... allot

But ppl get confused on -- manufacturers vs distributors

so many times I hear ppl say they buy directly from the manufacturer to get Grade A batteries ... is that true ? YEP you get fresh off the rack Grade A's -- but usually at a higher price....

Manufacturers sell the battery directly to you. They make it, they ship it. NO discounts - you pay exactly what that battery costs TODAY.

Distributors on the other hand buy like 10,000 GRADE A's at a time .. they get a great deal and a much lower price. They do not have to take possession of the batteries at once - they can basically put them on "layaway" and get them when they need them ... so the REPUTABLE wholesalers save 30% buying it in advance and pass a 15% savings on to you (im just using the figures as an example) ... You are still getting that fresh Grade A as the guy buying directly from the manufacturer

The only risk - and it is a risk - is that your distributors are actually buying A- and not A+ and not only getting a huge discount from the manufacturer but also ripping you off - they just hope you don't notice ... and often times most don't ... Grade A- can mean things like 270Ah instead of 280Ah ... or a little puffing or the QR code is missing etc etc ... so the distributors buying GRADE A- are making allot more profit then thosr buying A+ and selling them to you ....

Have I got Grade A- batteries that work great - YEP ... but I made it painful for the seller and asked Alibaba to step in and get some of my money back ... weird formula they use which i can go into at another time ...

Also there are (3) things that they know protects YOU and screws them -- your credit card company, PAYPAL. and Alibaba... You get a battery - its not right (won't go through the long list) .. you contact battery manufacturer ... they blow you off or give you the run around ... I immediately tell them that I am going to my CC company -- NOT PayPal -- NOT Alibaba .. but my CCC ... they usually change their tone right then and there

what happens when you go directly to your CCC is that instantly PayPal and Alibaba is charged with a payback and an investigation by the CCC is open. NOW you must pay close attention to this. Many times the Battery ppl will send gobble-goop to your CCC and if you don't rebut this then you loose --

Also - the battery company does NOT get their money from Alibaba - even if everything goes great until the "quality assurance" clock runs out ....

I have stopped payment on several things with my CCC .. they tell Alibaba ... the vendor makes it right ... I say its fine now ... and it still takes the vendor now 30-45 days for Alibaba to release that money

I say all of that rambling above to say -- its different NOW.

Consumers and sellers have got smarter ...

Yes there are still people selling B's for A's but they are just rolling the dice hoping you don't notice ....

Been to China many times for work since becoming US Citizen ... if you could go to the Battery section (literally) of China and see that it is literally hundreds of thousands of batteries a day going out you would be amazed.

I guess the trick though is to not be the first person to use someone ... I often am but I explain to them directly that there is no wrath greater than an bored angry Chinese girl in the middle of a 105 degree desert with time on her hands and a credit card issued by a company that will find a hole and bury them if they screw me ...

And have I got screwed after making those threats - YEP -- but I have NOT made it easy for them ...

But prices change daily on Alibaba.... talk to the vendor -- You are the buyer - ask questions of the sellers -- sure most will push the truth limit BUT then come here and ask --

sorry for the rambling -- just trying to find a reason not to go out to the generator site on a now 109 degree day ..... aaggghhh

 

[ghostwriter66]

"Anything else is pure speculation" ..... It's not that simple. There's always a risk of issues regardless of who the supplier is, and while some of them have a longer track record of good results than others, nothing is ever set in stone.
Just take a peek at the dumpster fire that is the Michael Caro threads these days lol.

For me, seeing a few reviews from other users who were bold enough to try dealing with lesser known suppliers is quite helpful, and I know I'm not alone in that view.

Totally Agree... and I hope Michael and those guys that bought from him can get something resolved but dumpster fire is an excellent description ...

As i have said before - right now I am using https://hezeyixin.en.alibaba.com/ ... I've got a few batteries in and they were all "good" packed (not super-duper-WELL packed but good enough ... I have been dealing wiht a girl named Bella and her English is soooo much better than my Chinese ... but they ARE a manufacturing Company that also have distributors under them -- so Win-Win for me ... I know that prices have gone up a chunk and we are being told that both battery and especially shipping charges are going to take a double digit climb - but so far - from the last time we ordered from her - their prices were still good ....

But with that said ... I still - each and every time hit alibaba -- put out a RFQ - and see what ppl are now selling their wares for so I can tell her -"but XYZ will do it for 105 a battery instead of 112" .. etc etc .... every time they have lowered to make the sell...

 

[SteveCA]

Totally Agree... and I hope Michael and those guys that bought from him can get something resolved but dumpster fire is an excellent description ...

As i have said before - right now I am using https://hezeyixin.en.alibaba.com/ ... I've got a few batteries in and they were all "good" packed (not super-duper-WELL packed but good enough ... I have been dealing wiht a girl named Bella and her English is soooo much better than my Chinese ... but they ARE a manufacturing Company that also have distributors under them -- so Win-Win for me ... I know that prices have gone up a chunk and we are being told that both battery and especially shipping charges are going to take a double digit climb - but so far - from the last time we ordered from her - their prices were still good ....

But with that said ... I still - each and every time hit alibaba -- put out a RFQ - and see what ppl are now selling their wares for so I can tell her -"but XYZ will do it for 105 a battery instead of 112" .. etc etc .... every time they have lowered to make the sell...

Im considering Bella and have a quote for 32 cells. How long did your last shipment take to arrive after payment? Bella has confirmed that the cells are 2021 production New Eve LF280K, Grade A matched cells. I will hold her to that as it is documented in our Alibaba chat. Is there anything else you recommend before I order?

 

[Jgb3]

Im considering Bella and have a quote for 32 cells. How long did your last shipment take to arrive after payment? Bella has confirmed that the cells are 2021 production New Eve LF280K, Grade A matched cells. I will hold her to that as it is documented in our Alibaba chat. Is there anything else you recommend before I order?

Bus bars and nuts and welded studs? I forgot to ask about double bus bars so I ended up having to buy more later

 

[peatop]

Thanks everyone for your comments, not necessarily to my question but all comments are certainly relevant. Im setting up a camper trailer and have gone down the path of AGM as I didn't trust the local stockists of Lifepo4 drop in batteries, however since getting on this and other forums related to my adventure, LFP has become very advantageous.
I'm retired and on the pension so buying big amounts of cells is beyond my budget, and now I will need to buy/replace equipment that is better suited to LFP than Lead acid, this was always a future project but I think now is better before problems arise.

Just an additional thought, I have been watching a guy here in Aus building an off grid garage and he was having issues with cells going out of balance on discharge because of his bus bars, someone sent him a set of Aluminum bus bars and this rectified the problem, they have a larger surface area than the copper ones supplied and are about 50% of the resistance, just a thought for you to think about.

 

[Stepandwolf]

Should clarify what "280AH" cells you are referring to since there appears to be older LF280N that EVE no longer makes and the LF280K which are even slightly different dimensions than the N variety and supposedly is the only ones EVE is making now. The older LF280N's were cheaper and would be surprised if you are getting $95/cell for fully matched cells.

To the best of my knowledge, and according to EVE, the LF280 and the LF280N are the same cell, spec'd different for different client needs. Yes, the K is different dimensions.

We have now found an LF280 being produced in March, 2021. We thought it was July 2020, then December 2020, now March 2021.

 

[boondox]

Thank you, I appreciate those links. I had already found them when I realized it was time consuming to try and find various links to this question. Also there ends up being a lot of unrelated discussion to the topic I was looking for. If there was a dedicated thread to:
1. Who is a trusted supplier & maybe a name of who they dealt with
2. Recent quoted pricing & deals (280ah, 200ah, cell type etc.)
3. Links to the exact cells (No affiliate links per the rules)

One of the recommended threads starts off “I've been sifting through some threads to help pick a vendor”

I think having a thread like this would be very convenient and would speed up “sifting” ?

If you think this would be helpful please reply so I’d know I’m not the only one that gets tired of sifting for this information.

Sounds to me like you just volunteered. If you want it, make it. I would love it too but don't expect others to do all the work for me. What you propose would be quite a bit of work. So get to it!

 

[ghostwriter66]

Im considering Bella and have a quote for 32 cells. How long did your last shipment take to arrive after payment? Bella has confirmed that the cells are 2021 production New Eve LF280K, Grade A matched cells. I will hold her to that as it is documented in our Alibaba chat. Is there anything else you recommend before I order?

we had some show up right at 45 days . and others 60+ .. it all depends on when the ship leaves and when LAX lets it into port ... so its sort of a waiting game -- sometimes I will aksing them for the local tracking and shipping tracking (different then the FEDEX) and that allows me to track the package from the warehouse to the dock then ship also ... but typically they won't do that unless you are one of the homies -- to be honest - they have asked me to PLEASE stop butchering the language and if I do they would just give me anything I want .. LOL

Honestly though -- its honestly better to NOT know where the boat is or how its been sitting in the LA Port for 12 days doing nothing ... normally I get a ping on my FEDEX account that they have cleared customs and are on the way ...

 

[RobertGreen]

Im considering Bella and have a quote for 32 cells. How long did your last shipment take to arrive after payment? Bella has confirmed that the cells are 2021 production New Eve LF280K, Grade A matched cells. I will hold her to that as it is documented in our Alibaba chat. Is there anything else you recommend before I order?

I just got a quote and chatted with her earlier this week and she told me the cells they have are LF280, but not the LF280K. Although she says the date codes are 2021 production.
If it was me, I would be somewhat cautious about that point if you're really 100% depending upon them being the K models.

Also, when I quizzed her about the matching process, they do Not supply any kind of readouts, so I got the impression that they are using the term "matched" in a particular way.

 

[SteveCA]

I just got a quote and chatted with her earlier this week and she told me the cells they have are LF280, but not the LF280K. Although she says the date codes are 2021 production.
If it was me, I would be somewhat cautious about that point if you're really 100% depending upon them being the K models.

Also, when I quizzed her about the matching process, they do Not supply any kind of readouts, so I got the impression that they are using the term "matched" in a particular way.

Cautious is why I havent ordered yet. Thanks for your comments. You simply cant be too clear with Chinese suppliers IMO.

 

[SteveCA]

Bus bars and nuts and welded studs? I forgot to ask about double bus bars so I ended up having to buy more later

Thanks for the reminder. I did spec bus bars and nuts but not double since thats what you need for top balancing. Cheers!

 

[SteveCA]

Bella Bella confirmed that the cells (claimed to be LF280K from EVE) are June 2021 production dates. I had read that EVE switched over to k production in August of 2021. Is my information correct that the new versions began production in August?

 

[Jgb3]

 

[RobertGreen]

Bella Bella confirmed that the cells (claimed to be LF280K from EVE) are June 2021 production dates. I had read that EVE switched over to k production in August of 2021. Is my information correct that the new versions began production in August?

No, that's not correct; I've got some LF280K's that are definitely older than August. The spec sheet in the resources section says it's first issue date is from January 2021, although I don't know how that matches up with the production timing.

It's weird too, I specifically ordered from someone other than Bella Bella because she told me a few days ago that their stock was LF280 and not LF280K

edit: jgb3 is a faster poster than me

 

[SteveCA]

No, that's not correct; I've got some LF280K's that are definitely older than August. The spec sheet in the resources section says it's first issue date is from January 2021, although I don't know how that matches up with the production timing.

It's weird too, I specifically ordered from someone other than Bella Bella because she told me a few days ago that their stock was LF280 and not LF280K

edit: jgb3 is a faster poster than me

Thanks! that is good to know. I presume your LF280K's tested out OK from your supllier?

 

[RobertGreen]

Thanks! that is good to know. I presume your LF280K's tested out OK from your supllier?

The ones I have sitting here are from Basen, and yeah, they get an A+ from me. They were more expensive than BellaBella's quotes though