diy solar

diy solar

LFP for EV's projected to be less than $56 per kWh within 6 months

Brucey said:
Any "hybrid" gas engine vehicle qualifies as zero emissions in all these states mandates. That's a huge loophole that will keep gas engines around plenty long enough.
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A hybrid vehicle has an internal combustion engine. It runs at least part of the time using the ICE. It has a tailpipe that emits exhaust. If the politicians are calling a hybrid a zero emission vehicle... I don't know what to say. That is just stupid.
 
AntronX said:
You can't equate EV battery made in China for their domestic market and South Korean company making Ford Lightning batteries in Georgia (US) for US market and to US quality spec. 100 kWh battery packaged and ready to install in EV is around $15k ($150/kWh).
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Maybe not. But I know darn well that no auto manufacturer pays close to what I have to pay for the material and I can build it for 2/3 that price (not prepped for an ev, but ready to rock for ESS)
Scale that to a million vehicles with billions of negotiating dollars and it’s far cheaper imo
 
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green mountain boys said:
A hybrid vehicle has an internal combustion engine. It runs at least part of the time using the ICE. It has a tailpipe that emits exhaust. If the politicians are calling a hybrid a zero emission vehicle... I don't know what to say. That is just stupid.
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For the majority of use in a city, several hybrids with a battery range of 40 miles do just fine using at most a few gallons a month.
 
Skid said:
For the majority of use in a city, several hybrids with a battery range of 40 miles do just fine using at most a few gallons a month.
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There is only 1 place in Vermont that is large enough that most people would consider it a city. That place is a 2.25 hour drive from here when it is NOT snowing and the roads are not covered in snow/ice. Most of the population of Vermont does not live in or near a city.
 
green mountain boys said:
There is only 1 place in Vermont that is large enough that most people would consider it a city. That place is a 2.25 hour drive from here when it is NOT snowing and the roads are not covered in snow/ice. Most of the population of Vermont does not live in or near a city.
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Exactly, lots of narrow back roads.
 
green mountain boys said:
There is only 1 place in Vermont that is large enough that most people would consider it a city. That place is a 2.25 hour drive from here when it is NOT snowing and the roads are not covered in snow/ice. Most of the population of Vermont does not live in or near a city.
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I referred to this-

"A hybrid vehicle has an internal combustion engine. It runs at least part of the time using the ICE. It has a tailpipe that emits exhaust. If the politicians are calling a hybrid a zero emission vehicle... I don't know what to say. That is just stupid."

Not where you live. It's a loophole you can use if it is still needed in six years.
 
green mountain boys said:
There is only 1 place in Vermont that is large enough that most people would consider it a city. That place is a 2.25 hour drive from here when it is NOT snowing and the roads are not covered in snow/ice. Most of the population of Vermont does not live in or near a city.
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If Subaru has a proven track record of EV (yet to be seen) those Vermonsters will gobble it up Birkenstocks and all!
 
AntronX said:
You can't equate EV battery made in China for their domestic market and South Korean company making Ford Lightning batteries in Georgia (US) for US market and to US quality spec. 100 kWh battery packaged and ready to install in EV is around $15k ($150/kWh).
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SK On wasn't exactly delivering a "US quality spec" for Ford. SK Innovation ended up paying $1.8 billion to settle IP infringement of LG patents .

There were a couple of f150 lightning fires, led to 18 known defective units that were recalled, and an unknown number of battery module(s) replaced based on Ford telematics for unknown reasons.

In addition to the 23H01 recall there was:

Description
High voltage battery module replacement andor battery energy control module becm software update
Campaign#
23B57

finance.yahoo.com

Ford F-150 Lightning recall reveals cause of battery fire

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has revealed the root cause of the battery fires that halted Ford F-150 Lightning production.
finance.yahoo.com finance.yahoo.com
 

One Cell low voltage - from a battery containing 96 cells, crippled this truck.
A bit much, to leave the owner stranded for a 161mv difference in one cell ?
I mean I would expect the Truck to get the owner home, and allow some time to address the battery. They are going to toss that pack from the battery anyway, not like they are trying to protect that battery pack.
There should be consideration for the safety of the owner - ie "I need to get somewhere" - over the self-protection of the battery/cells.
Looks like a pretty expensive process to get that pack out and replaced!
Leave it to auto maker to have the packs resting on top of the frame to make removal a huge process, instead of install/remove from below. I guess it keeps them from being stollen!
 
OffGridForGood said:

One Cell low voltage - from a battery containing 96 cells, crippled this truck.
A bit much, to leave the owner stranded for a 161mv difference in one cell ?
I mean I would expect the Truck to get the owner home, and allow some time to address the battery. They are going to toss that pack from the battery anyway, not like they are trying to protect that battery pack.
There should be consideration for the safety of the owner - ie "I need to get somewhere" - over the self-protection of the battery/cells.
Looks like a pretty expensive process to get that pack out and replaced!
Leave it to auto maker to have the packs resting on top of the frame to make removal a huge process, instead of install/remove from below. I guess it keeps them from being stollen!
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Have you seen how the Tesla structural batteries are constructed? You loose a cell/bank you replace the entire thing at 15-20k, at least ford has semi modular packs to replace.

 
AntronX said:
$5800 for 15 kWh module $387/kWh + 15 hours of labor + $700 for install kit. Probably $9k total.
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Replaced under warranty - I am sure at Battery Mfr expense, not the Blue Oval's.
The sucky part would be, if your left out in the cold, truck will only crawl (I am told this is only to allow loading for transport back to the Mother Ship, not like the limp mode of an Automatic Transmission.) I mean, does the Truck NEED to leave you stuck, instead of lots of warning beeps and let you drive home at least? What are they trying protect with shutting down the battery if they are going to toss it anyway?
 
I can see them wanting to avoid battery fires, however - the BMS 'knows' the cell voltages, all cells below OVP all cells above UVP, delta climbing reaches 161mv = time to leave the owner stranded?
I don't get it, what is the risk of letting the packs run, trigger beeping warning in the instrument cluster - flashing lights at you - let you know to stop if you can, or cut trip to shortest possible, but not leave you without power stranded.
Honestly, this type of thing, and the pouch cells in the F-150 Lightning left me feeling like, hum, I can wait for Gen 2
 
42OhmsPA said:
You and me both.
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Steve_S said:
I'm actually quite surprised that no one is stamping out cases for Racks / Stackables like those from seplos & others in North America or Europe. It's not rocket science.
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I don't think there is much money in it. Typical rack-pack 100AH/48v is 16cells, 105's so, .... next. The other guts are wiring harnesses, front panel displays and a BMC, along with the chassis. Have you priced a 4-5U rack server cabinet for a computer with no power supply or anything in it? $250+? + $100 for the BMC and $50 for the wiring BS, call it $400 for a box at best. So now I spend my $700 on the batteries and $400 on the box, I've got $1100 tied up in a DIY setup, or I could spend the $1350 and just get something already made, perhaps with some kind of support or warranty. It seems rackmount heavy duty steel boxes are not all that cheap.
 
Steve_S said:
Here's something to ponder... as the World gets less & less stable and conflicts increase, just how long do you think you'll be able to afford Petro Fuels ? Every conflict/war raises fuel costs (and never goes back down)... Do you REALLY want to send your cash to OPEC Nations ?
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In 1970-ish we were going to run out of oil around the 1990 time frame. "A Nation that runs on oil cannot afford to run short". Hard to beat the energy density in a gallon of gasoline. Solar is nice, and a great substitute for some oil production, and energy growth long term. I own TWO EV's, I can afford them, I don't mind the drawbacks, (There are many), and I'm playing trying to see what fully being solar is going to cost. Let me help you with that, it is a BIG phreaking number, and I would not presume to shove it down anyone's throat, nor would I attempt to scare someone into thinking they are wrecking the environment for driving an ICE car, nor intimating that somehow using oil is helping evil dictators or something.

Circling back to the topic, less expensive batteries, could be a huge boon for the "Hybrid" vehicle market! Hybrid's use EV tech to really squeeze a lot more of the energy out of that gallon of fuel! I have a buddy who got a Hybrid Sonata with a solar roof, big car, here to Cali on a tank with enough left over to drive around town. Now drop the cost of the 3-5KWH packs in a hybrid, and you bring the costs down to where normal folks can actually afford to own an older used hybrid without getting shocked with a $5K+ battery replacement, and we might be actually talking.

I think sometimes we lose sight of the fact that we often end up burning a lot of natural gas to run the turbines that create the electricity that charges our batteries. There is NO SUBSTITUTE for being able to create power on demand. Even nuclear power is not elastic enough to meet sudden demand. At some point we may be able to store huge amounts of electricity in batteries, but even with the price reductions above we are likely talking ~$200/KWH in production, I need 100+ for a summer day, that's $20,000/day of buffer for just my house alone, and batteries do not last forever. We will still be using massive amounts of fossil fuel long after I am dead and gone, cheap batteries or not.
 
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