MPPT maximum voltage - why no safety margin?

[Zwy]

This is hilarious.

A ten amp fuse is rated to carry ten amps.

So why cannot manufacturers make ten amp fuses that can safely carry thirty amps ?
It would save a lot of blown fuses, and the user should be allowed a bit more margin than the rated maximum.

Its totally outrageous that a ten amp fuse cannot carry more than ten amps.

If a solar controller is rated for a maximum voltage, that is what it is.
Its based on the ratings of the internal components, mainly the mosfets, but also capacitors among other things.
Safe maximums are exactly what they say they are, and definitely not more.

Reminds me of this thread, member just could not believe it could be over the VOC limits of the SCC.

And then it worked perfectly fine once the cold weather passed. Everyone wants to push everything to the limit. I purposely derate much of the imported stuff to 50% and for good reason.

 

[littleharbor2]

Yes. That should be very evident on the DSSR20 or a PWM controller in bulk phase.

MPPT controllers do their thing in bulk mode. They act as a PWM in later stages of charging. I am curious if the spike in voltage you are seeing is occurring in the later stages of charging. The voltage will pulse up and down as the controller connects and disconnects, going nearly open circuit and back with each pulse

 

[400bird]

How can you explain my voltage spiking? That is really my question. What caused my voltage to spike and go over 150 volts? It never does that on a sunny day no matter how cold it is but it did happen and I was so concerned that I replaced both of my charge controllers. Maybe someone can help me understand what was going on if it was not cloud edge effect. I made an assumption that that was what caused it to happen but if it didn't what was going on?

What is your VOC? How close are you to 150 volts when it is -30 out? How about panel and array specs?
Are you near the amperage limit on your charge controller? If you hit the amperage limit, the controller allows the voltage increase towards VOC, which is way higher than spec when it's -30

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Electrodufus = PWM, if I recall correctly .... big difference compared to MPPT.

Not even that. It is pure on/off. There is an option to divert to a dump load at the target voltage, but it does NOT regulate absorption voltage via PWM.

 

[WindWizard]

What is your VOC? How close are you to 150 volts when it is -30 out? How about panel and array specs?
Are you near the amperage limit on your charge controller? If you hit the amperage limit, the controller let's the voltage increase towards VOC, which is way higher than spec when it's -30

I did not think about that. That is a good explanation.

 

[Don B. Cilly]

A better explanation than my theory on page one :·)
Still...

the controller let's the voltage increase

In the sense that... it exhorts it? ;·)
-

 

[WindWizard]

Maybe it's because we have Victrons, and they behave differently. "Cloud edge effect" is not the right term to describe the bulk of what you and I are seeing as that's reserved for the increased irradiance effect. We have substantial wind that rapidly cools panels not in direct sunlight. In intermittent clouds, while staring at the numbers, I see a bump in voltage and power that tapers off with no obvious spike in current.

Even with 25A logged, that really doesn't feel "well over" rated for a ~2kW array... maybe 10% over... within the range of Imp and Isc difference?

I don't know that anybody is logging data fast enough to actually measure any "spike." One of these days, I'll use Trends on VC to try and capture it as it collects data every few seconds.

In any case, I'm going to stop using that description for what I see because I have been applying it incorrectly.

Looking at my data from the Victrons with the same panels the highest voltage I have got is 145 volts. It may indeed be that my FM 80s were pegging out and the voltage was spiking. I know that I have got a high of 5600 watts which is another indicator that I was seriously tromping my FM 80s. I am glad I made the decision to upgrade to the Victrons. I suspect that 400bird is 100% correct when he states the cloud effect is a increase in amps and not volts.

 

[400bird]

A better explanation than my theory on page one :·)
Still...

In the sense that... it exhorts it? ;·)
-

Ha, good catch on the autocorrect typo. Fixed

 

[12VoltInstalls]

Why not regulate substandard average products

Because we don’t want to buy $2k products, so we buy $400 products but don’t want to pay $1000 for them.

Regulation is for those who believe that people can’t make good choices for themselves.
I prefer freedom.

 

[D71]

Because we don’t want to buy $2k products, so we buy $400 products but don’t want to pay $1000 for them.

Regulation is for those who believe that people can’t make good choices for themselves.
I prefer freedom.

Just make sure not to complain what greens party type ppl do

Because we don’t want to buy $2k products, so we buy $400 products but don’t want to pay $1000 for them.

Regulation is for those who believe that people can’t make good choices for themselves.
I prefer freedom.

Do you deny it takes same basic energy, materials, and time to make: substandard, standard, and above standard - best products like an mppt?

Someone stated the midnight solar is top dog.
So what is true build delivery cost between Midnight Solar difference VS cheaper priced mppt?

If volume sales were high enough then price would be lower. Right?

think about what am saying... inconsideration to what the green ppl that want forced green believe and think.
That type of govt regulation to only produce the best products will cut carbon just as they want. Probably ... Why they want communism.
Substandard in particular is a waste for everything that could have been good. Right?. Think cheap knives and saying "only nickel as in 5 cents difference between good and bad knife." That is an old saying but was true. The actual cost to consumer was much different.

I know what am writing sounds foreign and alien but it is the only way .... ppl inventing will still invent. Corporations control and own most things anyway - they have rights to it. College professors use college facilities but get to keep their patents produced from govt monies and grants. The tax payers are getting screwed. Unless it has changed since went to college most as in majority of the college professors rarely teach their own classes. They are off doing other profit ventures..... govt teaching jobs are just extra money with benefits. Other ppl teach their classes.

I am cheap as hell but want good products for my money. Only a fool would drive down road throwing money out the window. I use the internet to make my purchases as cheaply as possible consider the savings towards paying for internet access. Fact you save nothing with any purchase as it is an expenditure sunk money unless ROI based and then that has to be played out.

Sound like communism? That is what the greens party were in germany back in 1980's. They hated nuclear power and protested but their real reason was to install a form of communism. Much like blm wants system change to marxist communism.
READ and forget the rest above:
But who cares about any of that this post is about: a product the original poster wants so can exceed the listed rating to put out more then listed and claimed. Right? Something for nothing.

We have a mug that holds a pint of beer..., we want that pint size mug to hold 2 pints.... or we want that 1 pint mug to deliver 2 pints with just 1 fill at the cost of 1 pint.

if you don't understand this then it is as layman and basic as can do. Did you read my other follow up to TomC. ???

edit added you do realize midnight solar rebrands what appears to powmr chinese products... voltronics.?
example https://www.solar-electric.com/midnite-solar-mn3024diy-inverter-charger.html?msclkid=d9af32b4bb19187b717256b5b9ada74f&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Shopping - All Products&utm_term=4588536906541031&utm_content=All Products

 

[12VoltInstalls]

if you don't understand this then it is as layman and basic as can do

holy cow
​

So

am cheap as hell but want good products for my money. Only a fool would drive down road throwing money out the window

I have lower tier products that have performed well for me. I’m not cheap on most things but from “the outside” I look cheap to most people because the idea of thrifty and living within one’s means- and making do to achieve delayed gratification- are concepts that have died to a great degree.

Adding additional government oversight to all sectors of our lives costs way more than most people would like; UL Listed is one way the government already regulates products, to our benefit.
But choice and the market can sort out the rest for intelligent, responsible citizens. I like the option.

If volume sales were high enough then price would be lower. Right?

I’m not certain that the factors of warranty, support, and the security they provide are considered in this statement.
We have in our world a manufacturing efficiency and margin building which has brought us to the point where simple replacement within the warranty period is more economically efficient than repairs. Though some co’s. still do repairs. The cost of the replacement (warranty) is built into the higher tier company’s margins just like the cost of smokers, tokers, and fat people is factored into your health insurance.

This was your original statement:

Why not regulate substandard average products?

wrap your brain around that for a moment.... substandard equipment is a waste of energy, materials, and time. Pollution to cancel green desires. Based on monetary.... Greed.

The thing is government is the solution to the problem. It is probably part of our problems. Adding more government- the least efficient means of doing anything- isn’t going to help cost efficiency.

The rest of the political rambling stuff is all over the place and whether or not I follow your thinking that probably doesn’t belong here.

 

[D71]

repeat:
We have a mug that holds a pint of beer..., we want that pint size mug to hold 2 pints.... or we want that 1 pint mug to deliver 2 pints with just 1 fill at the cost of 1 pint.
if you don't understand this then it is as layman and basic as can do. Did you read my other follow up to TomC. ???

We are all but rats on the same sinking ship. I am not the bad guy. I am on thesame ship…. Trapped in same boat. I have absolutely no control over nothing except a slight say so in my own actions for now. REALITY: Neither do you as any conversation on this forum is merely as passing of time... for us. Nothing will happen based on on conversations here and now. Things will be decided for you and I with the illusion of choice.

You get most of it or more. As do most ppl. It is why so many ppl are boiling, fuming, and mad on the inside. Want to fume most warranty are not worth paper written on.

repeat:
We have a mug that holds a pint of beer..., we want that pint size mug to hold 2 pints.... or we want that 1 pint mug to deliver 2 pints with just 1 fill at the cost of 1 pint.
if you don't understand this then it is as layman and basic as can do. Did you read my other follow up to TomC. ???

all of you drifted off the real origin of this post topic. the poster wants an inch to take a mile…… more for less…. Safety margins to be unsafe.

 

[D71]

holy cow
​

So

I have lower tier products that have performed well for me. I’m not cheap on most things but from “the outside” I look cheap to most people because the idea of thrifty and living within one’s means- and making do to achieve delayed gratification- are concepts that have died to a great degree.

Adding additional government oversight to all sectors of our lives costs way more than most people would like; UL Listed is one way the government already regulates products, to our benefit.
But choice and the market can sort out the rest for intelligent, responsible citizens. I like the option.

I’m not certain that the factors of warranty, support, and the security they provide are considered in this statement.
We have in our world a manufacturing efficiency and margin building which has brought us to the point where simple replacement within the warranty period is more economically efficient than repairs. Though some co’s. still do repairs. The cost of the replacement (warranty) is built into the higher tier company’s margins just like the cost of smokers, tokers, and fat people is factored into your health insurance.

This was your original statement:

The thing is government is the solution to the problem. It is probably part of our problems. Adding more government- the least efficient means of doing anything- isn’t going to help cost efficiency.

The rest of the political rambling stuff is all over the place and whether or not I follow your thinking that probably doesn’t belong here.

The only really desired thing is the govt regulation of getting U.L. Rating. But remember you don’t like regulations. If yoursolar equipment burns your house down the insurance might say tough we are not paying. …. With unregulated components as the root cause of the fire.

You do realize this is the UP IN SMOKE learn from my mistake FORUM not the General Forum? Know where am at and read the initial post so truthfully this post doesn’t belong in this forum.

form sides and throw rocks or pea shooters at 20 paces

 

[Browneye]

Unsub. And they didn't want us to mention motorcycles. LOL

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Unsub. And they didn't want us to mention motorcycles. LOL

I feel you. @D71 is mostly incoherent.

 

[D71]

Unsub. And they didn't want us to mention motorcycles. LOL

I have no problem with it. I’ve owned motorcycles. The original post is specific for a person posting their topic then someone says, “ I am off topic. ‘‘ again I say pea shooters at 20 paces that includes sunshine eggo

bring out the pots calling the pans black

 

[littleharbor2]

I feel you. @D71 is mostly incoherent.

No chit. Why all the delusional ranting? I'm sure there's forums out there who welcome this BS. Disconnecting from this thread. Bye.

 

[D71]

No chit. Why all the delusional ranting? I'm sure there's forums out there who welcome this BS. Disconnecting from this thread. Bye.

real simple made a post to the original poster. Ppl don’t like what I posted they replied. Tough. Cut and run ship mate. You can only go so far and there we are.

 

[Zwy]

I went to the store and bought some lollipops......

 

[D71]

I went to the store and bought some lollipops......

All day suckers are good do you have a dental plan? Do you Want to buy a mppt solar controlled TOOTH brush or do you need a TEETH BRUSH.