New offering true Grade A EVE 280ah? 118usd

[ramiws]

Hi,

This vendor
Shenzhen Luyuan Technology

Is saying that they are ordering new true grade A 280ah directly from EVE for 118usd/pcs. They also sell grade B 280ah for around 84usd/pcs

Anyone has ordered those 118usd? how can we tell if they are truly grade A if grade B is also pulling full capacity during tests? How often grade B has an issue? Is it a luck game with the capacity?

1pcs Eve 280ah Lifepo4 (lfp) 3.2v Cells Battery (new Version Lf280k With 6000cycles,Fully Matched)--genuine Grade A - Buy Eve lifepo4 280ah Product on Alibaba.com

1pcs Eve 280ah Lifepo4 (lfp) 3.2v Cells Battery (new Version Lf280k With 6000cycles,Fully Matched)--genuine Grade A - Buy Eve lifepo4 280ah Product on Alibaba.com

www.alibaba.com

 

[Rob A2]

I ordered last week four pieces at Amy (the mentioned vendor). Ofcourse I didn't received them yet. I have a testreport en some pictures. See below.

 

[ramiws]

Ok I assume you have bought them as grade A with 118usd price? I have a feeling that they are simply grade B and they charge more just to find and test the good ones for you.

 

[Steve_S]

Luyuan no longer uses Battery Cell Brokers, their cells are all with factory direct supply contracts. The bulk cells (cheaper) are qualified tested only, the more expensive cells are tested & matched in batches BY the factory and shipped to Amy in Batched Lots as shown product report sheet posted above. Matched sets in 4,8 & 16 cells are available.

I have some in transit via Air Freight which should be in my home by end of next week, at which time I will be running my own set of tests.

Luyuan is a KNOWN Good & Trusted Vendor here, Amy has supplied THOUSANDS of cells to members here, some of whom buy is 200+ lot's in single PO's. If that's not up to your spec, then go directly to EVE, CATL or other stores but be prepared for it.

 

[Rob A2]

I agree with the comments of Steve_S. That's why I ordered them at Luyuan. Indeed I've bought them as grade A with 118usd price. The 2021 version of the EVE cells don't have tapped holes. There are welded studs on it. And yes: I trust Amy because many people on this forum ordered cells from here. She has good reviews. She also ansewerd my questions well. Without trust you can't buy anything from China.

 

[ramiws]

Yes, I am not doubting the seller. And my hunch was confirmed by Steve_S. The difference in price is simply due to the amount of work needed to find and match the cells. Which is fair enough.

 

[Rob A2]

?

 

[Steve_S]

Let me put it this way which may simplify any misunderstandings.
All cells are "technically" qualified as Grade-A as they meet the specification for the CLASS of cell.
These are ESS Class (Energy Storage Systems) and NOT EV Class (higher C-Rates etc).
The more expensive Matched Cells are DONE by the Manufacturer, this is more than the basic "Grade Qualification Tests".
Cells which still meet "Grade-A" qualification but are NOT matched because they are on the Hi/Lo edges of the Matching Qualifications are then sold as Bulk/Commodity cells.

Cell Brokers buy of the "edge case" cells which are still qualified as A-Grade for purpose, but they also buy up the A- & B grade cells which are even cheaper (on their side). They also buy overstock, "New Old Stock" that has been on the shelf for 6+ months and of course Used Cells (pending on broker) and they sell these up to general vendors at various price points depending on their supply contracts & arrangements. So these batches sold up to vendors can & do vary between what is available at the time... This is WHERE the "Commodity" part comes into play.

I have personally spoken directly with Manufacturers & Brokers over the last while as I do have some contacts there (been dealing with Chinese Manufacturers since the very early 90's, starting with computer products), so some doors are open.

By this fall, some vendors will begin offering Regenerated Lithium cells, derived from recycled Lithium Batteries. As in dismantled, materials recovered & reblended and then manufactured into fresh cells. This sector in China has been under development for a while and in general, they are approximately 18-24 months ahead of everyone else on this tech. This is only now getting off the ground in EU (2 facilities coming online this summer & fall) and the USA is about 18+ months away from being able to do such on a scale.

I am watching this thread now.
Note, This is likely Too Much Info as I'm tickling NDA's so don't ask too much as I will likely be unable to answer that.

A note to ponder as well.
When the vendors are communicating via translator-ware, the software is NOT that great and subtleties in language really create misunderstandings which people sometimes perceive as falsehoods. IF IN DOUBT ASK FOR CLARIFICATION before making Assumptions and Jumping to Conclusions. Assumptions often leave to the "assumer" looking like an ASS, don't be the ASS ! That's a Job for Politicians and ONLY them.

Hope it helps, Good Luck

 

[Spazz]

To me this is not a very good price. The shipping is as much as the cells themselves. Is there something I’m missing here?

 

[Steve_S]

You have to get a direct quote through chat/messenger. The shipping estimate thing is always way off the mark.
BTW, you have 2 sets of 4 cells there, if you didn;t realize it.
Also, note that each 280AH cell weighs 5kg/11lbs.

 

[Rob A2]

@Spazz, FYI
for 4 pcs 280Ah to Europe (The Netherlands) I've paid last week $158 for DDP shipment by train/ship. Just ask Amy as @Steve_S indicates.

 

[Spazz]

You have to get a direct quote through chat/messenger. The shipping estimate thing is always way off the mark.
BTW, you have 2 sets of 4 cells there, if you didn;t realize it.
Also, note that each 280AH cell weighs 5kg/11lbs.

Yes 2 sets of 4 to make a 2p 4s bank. Dose anyone try to do group buys on cells on the forum? Haven’t seen any.

 

[Rob A2]

Just enter a search query with "group buy" (top right corner)

 

[Pyrofx]

Yes 2 sets of 4 to make a 2p 4s bank. Dose anyone try to do group buys on cells on the forum? Haven’t seen any.

That would be awesome!

 

[ramiws]

@Steve_S thank you, just when I kinda understand that world, now Amy says they only sell matched cells. So is it a matter of shortages of supply for bulk cells? Is it so that matched cells are always available but the bulk ones are not?

 

[Steve_S]

Simply put, there will ALWAYS be Bulk Cells available but demand really plays into it, MANY Vendors & Lots of demand, so supplies can get squeezed. Remember that BULK / Commodity cells may still be grade-A BUT they are on the "FRINGES OF THE SPECIFICATION". These are often bought up in large batches by brokers who then sell them onward to vendors. That really creates a situation that, well, is not the best.

Amy has negotiated direct supply contracts with EVE, and others, with EVE supplying bulk cells (cheaper ones) and Manufacturing, Batched cells which are matched in sets of 16 cells. Matching & Batching cells is a time-consuming process that adds cost to the cells but also assures that they perform identically through their operating ranges.

I feel like I've repeated this far too many times already. Rule of 3 is well expended, so not repeating myself again.

 

[ramiws]

Thank you for sharing knowledge. There was no need to repeat what you have already said. The first paragraph of your answer was good explanation. I was just hoping that I would be able to buy some of those bulk cells from Amy, I guess it is temporary shortages due to high demand as you said.

 

[Just John]

Thank you for sharing knowledge. There was no need to repeat what you have already said. The first paragraph of your answer was good explanation. I was just hoping that I would be able to buy some of those bulk cells from Amy, I guess it is temporary shortages due to high demand as you said.

It's also Chinese new year. Everything is shut down probably middle of March is when commodity cells show up in quantity.

 

[Just John]

Steve was talking about recycled or relithiumed batteries

New “targeted healing” approach rejuvenates run-down battery materials

Rather than break down cathode material, why not restore it?

arstechnica.com

They also ran a recent article about Eve being the manufacturer for the 5 minute charge battery.

 

[maharzan]

Any reviews on the new 280Ah cells from Amy? I am trying to get 16 cells for my small ev which draws upto 270A current max so I believe this would be good but Steve mentioned its not EV grade cells. Amy did say we can use it for EVs too (power systems or something like that).. What do you recommend?

I did get Eve 105Ah cells from Eve last year which were priced $80/cell and while they worked great for 2 months, its starting to degrade at least a pair of cells and they are discharging faster than others. When I contact eve they are saying it cannot happen and I am the culprit for connecting wrongly.. lol. I also use chargery BMS and they are blaming each other for faults instead of accepting some cells might be defective or the bms mihht be defective.. I am at the loss.. So, I do not have much faith in "new matched" cells now..