Paying for install labor

[highestbid]

I have seen a few threads on this but most were older. I live in east texas and am wondering if anyone have recent experience in having panels installed. I was really shocked when I saw people quoting 125%+ of the cost of the panel to get it mounted. I dont know that I could ever get ROI with those sorts of prices. I'm 65 might not live that long Is there an appreciable difference in labor rates for roof vs ground mount? Does the cost of the actual mounts dissolve any possible savings? Or maybe this is all a pipe dream and I should just stick with a generator and get a new hobby

 

[E. Cho]

Lots of variables, so advice on a location, or method, without site specifics, is pretty difficult to cost estimate. Both roof and ground have pros and cons. Will you need permits and UL listing and an insurable system too? Do you need system automation or to be grid tied too? Those add expenses and possibly complexity. 100% off grid is usually more affordable but also has pros and cons.

Solar for me has been fantastic. I hardly ever need my generator. But it is in a rural area that doesn't have any emergency services or neighbors to consider, no insurance or code compliance needed, other than it is code compliant for logical common sense safety. Dont buy a kit or listen to door to door sales people and compare installers!!!!!!! Solar isn't perfect, has limitations and requires system knowledge and baby sitting. It is not buy and forget it and power forever.

You would do well by taking your time, reading the forums and resources sections, learning to do an energy audit and read solar retailer websites to learn what parts and at what prices will meet your energy audit and personal control needs.

At 65, I learned how and installed 2 x 2300 watt for 3000 and 4000 watt inverters, one system for me and one for a 75 year old friend. Both 100% off grid. Panels are on the side walls of our small homes, one site angled and one site tilting.

It was stressful for me learning, as this forum didn't really exist then, nor did the huge DIY technology and choices. Now it is much different due to the large number of videos, websites and folks sharing.

I can't say if you could do it, but I could. Total rough cost was $5-7,000 US. Less with a smaller 100 AHr LiFePO4 battery, more with 100+305 batteries in parallel. It could be done for less if non Tier 1 equipment was purchased and less again for used solar panels. Less again, as you have several nearby product distributors in Texas.

Do not get sucked in by "kits". Read, read, read to learn how it all works and place plan plan, before you buy DIY or hire anyone. Lots of sales people will take your money, over promise and maybe under deliver or wrongly deliver.

Current Connected online store is a good retailer as a starting point.

Realize this is a DIY forum first, so packages and retail info isn't its strong suit.

So, depending on my first few sentences, your mental and physical abiities, your needs and budget, you could slowly learn and then go for it as DIY. Maybe hire helpers when physically needed. The parts are not really heavy anyway.

 

[LydMekk]

Be careful not to buy a lot of equipment before getting an installer...
Many will not install products they have not sold themselves.
And be stuck with warranty for stuff they do not know but have installed for the customer.
A lot of grey areas.
Installers tend to prioritize customers who also buy their products.
Just my 2 cents.

 

[Cmy]

Using 12-14kWh a year hasn't demanded solar assist and, being a decade+ older than the initial poster, my wife is on a no risk campaign. Plus why sell stocks whose dividends more than cover fairly low electric bills?

This year Texas has had multiple conservation warnings and, at one point, thought they were 15 minutes from partial shut down. Pesky problem of wind slowing and sun going down as evenings loads build. Power existed but transmission lines to major users were at capacity and close to breaker limits. That increased reliability importance and I changed me to added value over ROI. Will adding solar increase property value - maybe not this year or the next, but electricity cost has been rising for me. I am ready to gamble that if I or heirs sell, before ROI payoff, a buyer will pay more for the solar benefit.

Neighbor just paid almost $50k for 64 panels installed, including home electrical work. They have electric heat, I don't so need half that number of panels. Signature two hours away - $6-$8k for panels, add an EG4 18, plus tax, mounts, wire, and install. I will find out how that comes out.

 

[highestbid]

I started the thread just trying to get a general estimate of the cost per panel for install not of an entire system just the panels. And yes I know without knowing a lot more details that is a hard call. But in general which seems to be cheaper roof mount with all the associated TIGO stuff or ground mount including building the mounts. If just mounting one panel on roof or ground cost more than the panel itself I need to radically alter what is possible in the initial time frame. The second question is how do you know if the installer is ripping you off. For normal things I would just get several estimates and they would set the tone. With this it is hard enough to find even one that will install SigSolar Panels that you didn't buy from them (and they dont sell them anyway).

 

[Cmy]

Signature used to have a list of installers, perhaps they have a current one. Roof vs ground mount? I have a metal out building and not messing with the house's composite shingles. Metal roof mounts for ~34 panels $1200-$1400. Those with ground mounts can better estimate that cost. Roof wiring cost probably less unless the ground mount is close to the inverter.

Q1 If just mounting one panel on roof or ground cost more than the panel ...

Other than friends and family you will pay installation labor. Which leads to Q2, balancing quality and cost. It is a normal thing, get estimates and have them itemized. How far off are the panel costs from what you can buy? Hot summers, tax credits, grid issues have made for busy installers, just like the HVAC who want to focus on the most profitable work.

If you are comfortable with wiring, I have seen roofing companies claiming to do solar. They are used to roofs, able to get heavy loads that high, and experienced at avoiding leaks. My shingles were replaced a few years ago and they used a harbor freight winch to pull a sled, holding a square of shingles, up a ladder. Beats asking the wife to lift a 50lb panel high enough for you to pull up.

Looking at my neighbor's install mentioned prior, panels used show online $160 more than Signature equal wattage (different brand). Don't know if the neighbors got a discount or a surcharge but, based on that online price, panels came to almost half of the total cost. But they are happy, $700 electrical bills shrink and the tax credit is a big help for them. They estimate 7.5 year payoff but they are kids, only in their 40s, and can wait.

Lastly, I asked a retired neighbor/contractor, about lower price, lower watts panels vs. more spending more for fewer higher watt panels. He said the usual 'panels are cheap' then added 'but labor is expensive, go big'.

 

[zanydroid]

You can try to estimate the labor costs by looking at the prices places like ProjectSolar claim for your area. And then subtract the hardware cost you can find for UL listed equipment. They’re cheaper than local turnkey and find subcontractors to install for you. Do check reviews on r/solar etc for how well it works. A bit scary though given how terrible turnkey installers with a name can be already. Imagine how much worse a semi anonymous subcontractor hiding behind ProjectSolar is going to be.

A large component of the up charge is equipment markup and commission for salesperson. For reference 9kW of panels on a single story roof takes two workers 6-8 hours to finish. So if you carry your own owner builder insurance AND can find two qualified roofing employees with some solar experience to moonlight you can probably do it with under $2000 in labor costs (including your insurance).

The owner builder insurance is easy, just ask a neighbor with remodeling experience or insurance broker. Throw money and a few emails at it. I’m not sure how you would find the right sub or freelance employees.

 

[highestbid]

Signature used to have a list of installers, perhaps they have a current one. Roof vs ground mount? I have a metal out building and not messing with the house's composite shingles. Metal roof mounts for ~34 panels $1200-$1400. Those with ground mounts can better estimate that cost. Roof wiring cost probably less unless the ground mount is close to the inverter.

Q1 If just mounting one panel on roof or ground cost more than the panel ...

Other than friends and family you will pay installation labor. Which leads to Q2, balancing quality and cost. It is a normal thing, get estimates and have them itemized. How far off are the panel costs from what you can buy? Hot summers, tax credits, grid issues have made for busy installers, just like the HVAC who want to focus on the most profitable work.

If you are comfortable with wiring, I have seen roofing companies claiming to do solar. They are used to roofs, able to get heavy loads that high, and experienced at avoiding leaks. My shingles were replaced a few years ago and they used a harbor freight winch to pull a sled, holding a square of shingles, up a ladder. Beats asking the wife to lift a 50lb panel high enough for you to pull up.

Looking at my neighbor's install mentioned prior, panels used show online $160 more than Signature equal wattage (different brand). Don't know if the neighbors got a discount or a surcharge but, based on that online price, panels came to almost half of the total cost. But they are happy, $700 electrical bills shrink and the tax credit is a big help for them. They estimate 7.5 year payoff but they are kids, only in their 40s, and can wait.

Lastly, I asked a retired neighbor/contractor, about lower price, lower watts panels vs. more spending more for fewer higher watt panels. He said the usual 'panels are cheap' then added 'but labor is expensive, go big'.

Sadly SS has no one they work with in my area. I don't work for free so I certainly wouldn't expect the installers to either but when you no idea what you are doing it is so easy to get ripped off.

 

[Cmy]

To keep life interesting ... I have settled on wanting a 14K install and asked for a quote. They came back with 48 Hyundai 305s yielding 14.64kW, total $37K and change, $14.6k for 'install', plus the usual mounts, wiring, switches and stuff. Don't know if install charge is for just panels or for all labor involved - switch wiring, inverter install and set up, etc. For grins, divide install $$ by 48 panels and you get a bit over $300/panel.

Signature sells the 305s for $2835/30 pallet or $110/panel = 48 for $4806 or 32 cents/watt. Step up to the Canadian 400s and 36 panels total 14.4kW, costing $5988. At $300/panel, 12 fewer saves $3600 more than covering the 400s higher price. Write the big check for 32 SEG 460s costing $7479 for 14.7kW and the 16 fewer panels saves $4800, more than covering the $2673 higher panel cost. Also fewer mounts, a bit less wiring, not as many trips to the roof.

But without the actual panel install cost it is all a big guess. There is probably a fixed overhead to do an install - insurance, health care, tool amortization, lift or trencher rental, etc. So a big what if - say fixed was the larger portion of my install estimate, then even at $100/panel 12 fewer panels covers the 400's $1182 higher cost. The 460s $2673 delta needs $150/panel install cost to break even.

I am going to get an estimate from another installer with equally good references. Have fun looking at your numbers.

 

[chrisski]

My planning numbers are $15k / 5 kW of panels installed. 15 kW would cover a years worth of electric bills. That comes out to $1200 per panel.

Batteries are an additional $12 k per 10 kWh installed. A single battery would last an outage of a couple hours if I ran AC. Batteries are needed to run any solar in case of a power outage.

This is prior to government rebates.

 

[Hedges]

If you have space for ground mount, and go with fairly shallow slope since you're in Texas, it can be a DIY project that doesn't involve falling off the roof. With panels and inverter not on the house, no RSD per panel. Just a few strings to an inverter.

Older model panels up to about 350W can be reasonable to swing around and lift.

You didn't say if you wanted battery or not. I use SMA, and their new Sunny Boy Smart Energy can be used PV only or with (expensive) HV batteries. I expect it to provide full backup with add-on split phase transformer, but for now they only describe a backup-lite option.

The battery would be from BYD, up to 32kWh around $18k. Not including installation, but it is just modules with connectors that stack, and cables to inverter.

 

[Pinto Yates]

I’d say 125% of panel cost for roof mounting, hardware and connections is pretty consistent with past bids I’ve seen. Unless you’re going with big numbers of panels it’s pretty tough to get any permanent ground mounting done DIY for much less than $100/panel. Outrageous turn key solar system quotes are what brought me here in the first place. ?

 

[HarryN]

Sometimes it makes sense to look at the real goal vs just installing solar.

In our case, what we need when the power goes out most of all is for the 2 refrigerators to keep running, so that is the focus.

Running the natural gas furnace in the winter is sort of second but useful.

We can cook food on the propane grill outside or use the same solar power that is for the fridge to make coffee and similar.

I have a small solar power setup on my vehicle and normally it runs my off grid shop and odd yard stuff / tools.

When there is an outage I can also tap into that - or even just that. It is set up to plug in a few more panels when stationary as needed.

I am willing to run extension cords to make things work. If you want a "I don't want to think about it" system - that costs more money.