Physical layout of 4 280AH cells

[AussieKev]

Hi All,

I have ordered 4 EVE cells to create a 280AH battery. I have a question about the layout of the cells. This is for a campervan and I would like to have the battery positioned under the seat if possible. A normal upright layout would not fit. As such I am considering arranging the cells as shown below and storing them on their side.

I have seen some previous discussions about storing lifepo4 batteries on their side. Those comments advised the check the product spec sheets.
The spec sheet that I have seen does not mention if the batteries can be used on their sides. Does anyone here know if this is possible?

I will still have the batteries in a box under compression. Other than the positive and negative terminals being closer together in this layout are there any other issues I should consider? I have not seen any other builds like this so I wanted to check.

Thanks

 

[DThames]

Did you see Will's video of the one that leaked?

 

[time2roll]

Did you see Will's video of the one that leaked?

I think Will stated the cell was resting on a rivet that was not flush.

 

[AussieKev]

Did you see Will's video of the one that leaked?

I did see that video and read the discussions here and here on the forum. I've also seen the update video on youtube and read the youtube comments. It seems that this leaking was due a manufacturing fault. The other suspected issues came from the case or the weight being transferred to the bottom cell. It seems that there were more issues at play than just the fact that the cells were on their side.

I am building a small 280AH 12v battery, so the weight or case build issues shouldn't apply to my build. I think that it's also safe to assume I will not receive any cells which have a manufacturing fault. The cells that Will removed from that battery had very obvious scratches. I'm sure I will notice any issues with the cells that I receive.

 

[HRTKD]

The EVE 280Ah cells can be oriented upright or on their long side. Consult the manufacturer of your cells for how they can be oriented. Not all manufacturers allow for anything other than upright.

 

[Domino2205]

I am finishing up a similar build and I used a Harbor Freight Apache 4800 case and laying the long way had to make buss bars. The buss bars that come with the cells were not long enough so I made them using cable with hydraulic crimper. I have a SmartShunt and a 250 amp fuse also mounted inside the case. Overall it has turned out very well and a very solid case for 49.00

 

[sprint2freedom]

Nice setup, Domino.

What gauge are your cable "busbars"?

 

[Domino2205]

Nice setup, Domino.

What gauge are your cable "busbars"?

I used 2 awg welding cable and I believe 1.75" long.

 

[keepsake]

The EVE 280Ah cells can be oriented upright or on their long side. Consult the manufacturer of your cells for how they can be oriented. Not all manufacturers allow for anything other than upright.

What is the 'long' side ? Can I place the side with the largest area down on the floor ? Eve 280ah ? The side that is about 8-in by 8-in.

 

[Substrate]

Without being an alarmist, the reason some manufacturers do and some don't warn against a sideways mount are concerned that in the event of a catastrophic failure, electrolyte or other debris can more easily block the cell vent, which can lead to the case rupturing rather than venting.

Sounds like you have things under control.

 

[Browneye]

I was going to set mine on their narrow side but it turned out that upright they just cleared by a quarter inch.
The same configuration turned 90 degrees would also work:

 

[HRTKD]

What is the 'long' side ? Can I place the side with the largest area down on the floor ? Eve 280ah ? The side that is about 8-in by 8-in.

Correct. In the picture above posted by Chris, the long sides are the ones clamped together.

There are a number of short side orientations if you look for them. How did they get away with that? 1. Mfg said it was OK. 2. Ignorance. 3. It was the only way it would work for their install (damn the electrolyte, full amps ahead!).

 

[Browneye]

My sales rep asked engineering about orientation on the Eve cells, and they said on end was ok, flat down not.
Lots of them in use are mounted side end down.
There is some concern with mobile app verses fixed, mainly for vibration and shock.

 

[HRTKD]

Almost two years ago, someone got a direct line to an EVE "engineer" and what was reported back at that time was that long side down was OK, short side down was not. In the end, I decided to play it safe and go terminals up.

 

[Browneye]

What is frustrating is the inability to get a straight answer.

 

[keepsake]

Mr. Brown -- what you post makes so much sense. What is your source for these images ?
Are these the actual internal layout of the Eve 280ah cells many of us have ?
If a cell is 90% charged is the electrolye in the last photo covering all the plates ?

 

[Browneye]

Random internet pics. Search for images of cell orientation, you can find all kinds of images.

I don't know exactly how the cells are laid out inside, but I do know they do not have liquid or wet electrolyte - it's a soaked material between the leaves of the battery cell. They are not like a flooded lead acid battery.

The biggest issue with non-vertical or 'normal' upright position is the tendency for the internals to come apart from the electrodes, and to breakdown the internal layers, particularly in mobile applications. This gets discussed some on EV forums and building large battery banks and getting them to fit in a confined compartment. As a general rule orientation doesn't cause failure.

There is also the burst vent, if the cell if overcharged and 'blows' they can leak out the membrane vent on the top of the cell. Will had some vids that covered this on some leaky cells in commercially built batteries - IIRC they were BigBattery. That company has had their issues, and their stuff is not cheap. If cells are on their side it is that much easier for any leakage to run out. It's said that stuff is nasty.

I don't have any proof one way or another though. I was able to mount mine upright after all.

 

[HRTKD]

It's my understanding that the EVE prismatic cells use a "jellyroll", not pouches. The images you posted are of pouch cells. The image also assumes that the cell is only partially filled with electrolyte. I don't know how much electrolyte is actually in my cells, but I don't recall hearing it slosh around. That might not even be a valid test to determine electrolyte levels if the jellyroll acts as a baffle to prevent easy movement of the electrolyte.

Of course, I could be all wrong about this. I have no insider knowledge. Everything about prismatic cells I learned on the Internet.

 

[keepsake]

I suspect we, the end users, hear so little about the internal construction has to do with proprietary design constraints. They don't want to make it easy for the competition to steal stuff.

 

[Browneye]

AFAIK it's not a 'liquid electrolyte' either, more of an absorbed matt, much like an AGM. I could also be wrong. ?