Preparing for WW3

[Ralphloren]

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[offgriddave]

Putin and Biden wants everyone to live off the grid! and enjoy the outdoors Just kidding
If somehow people are going to survive it will be like the Victorian era with a mix of 20th century to 80s technology. Hunting, fishing, gardening. No propane, gas, diesel, or kerosene. It would be nice to figure out how to make your own kerosene using kitchen equipment. Anyone know how to brew kerosene using a regular kitchen?

Nice skills to learn now: rendering suet fat into lard or tallow for food, candles, soap. Building and maintaining a Victory garden without electricity for water pump. Timber frame and log cabin building and notches.

Once I tried living in the outdoors with just gathering food outside. It was an all day event, every moment, searching and finding food, fishing, and hunting. From 5am to 10pm, just to get enough calories. I gave up after about 7 days. Fasting is another skill to have.

 

[Ralphloren]

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[MurphyGuy]

Putin and Biden wants everyone to live off the grid! and enjoy the outdoors Just kidding
If somehow people are going to survive it will be like the Victorian era with a mix of 20th century to 80s technology. Hunting, fishing, gardening. No propane, gas, diesel, or kerosene. It would be nice to figure out how to make your own kerosene using kitchen equipment. Anyone know how to brew kerosene using a regular kitchen?

Making kerosene is easy, you just need coal and an oxygen free container to heat it.

Nice skills to learn now: rendering suet fat into lard or tallow for food, candles, soap. Building and maintaining a Victory garden without electricity for water pump. Timber frame and log cabin building and notches.

All that is easy as well.. We've rendered pig fat and made soap, it wasn't hard to to. Good soap too! I was surprised by it because modern soaps have nothing on good old fashioned saponified pig fat.

Once I tried living in the outdoors with just gathering food outside. It was an all day event, every moment, searching and finding food, fishing, and hunting. From 5am to 10pm, just to get enough calories. I gave up after about 7 days. Fasting is another skill to have.

Location and time of year are big variables in that kind of thing. Here in Michigan, deer and rabbits are everywhere.

 

[MurphyGuy]

Turns out the Amish had it all figured out!

Not really.. If we all behaved like the Amish, we wouldn't be Amish for long because a technologically superior force would come in and take everything over.

Amish have to thank modern technology for their existence.. bunch of hypocrites if you ask me.

 

[12VoltInstalls]

Here in Michigan, deer and rabbits are everywhere.

Until 50,000 people become hunters in and out of ‘season’ indiscriminately. That is a remarkably short-term solution that may not be available for decades after a few months of crazed hungry people.

 

[MurphyGuy]

However with EMP the EMP commisson to congress said it might take out 90% of the population in 2 years due to lack of food and water.

Yup.. And the crime and infighting would be most of that 90%..

This could result in a very small amount of resistance against any "legal" invading army and those that use the 2A to fight the legal invaders will at that point be called terrorists and the MSMs will spin that as fact.

There won't be any media after an EMP..

From the shear fact that only 10% of the population remains inherently means that there is a small remnant of able bodied resistance with guns to fight anyway which is easier to squelch for an invading army with small numbers.

The military would be fully functional in most ways.. not all, but all the important parts..

Very possible that to get food and water, they will use FEMA camps to help people and confiscate weapons to reduce the terrorist threat.

No.. that's just radical right wing propaganda that has spread everywhere.. well.. unless we classify a food kitchen as a FEMA camp. If you worked for FEMA, would you agree to such policies? People forget that our government is run by people, not by some mysterious force or evil genius with chips in everyone's head controlling them. And while there are always bad apples, most people, even government workers and political hacks, are trying to do what they think is best..

If any US military still in the USA is surviving after the EMP because they were hardened to it or prepared may be required to join the invading armies with the peace mission and fight against the 2A terrorists because they report to the US gov which will support the Kigali principles that Obama signed. If not they will be terrorist's.

That's paranoia coming from a perspective that the government is always out to get us.. Its just not reasonable.

That's not to say there won't be terrorist.. most likely those terrorists will be folks trying to take over the government so they can enact their own bigoted ultra-conservative religious rule.. My best guess is that they'll be too busy trying to protect their own families for such activities.

I don't assume how anything is going to work in the future as fact because that's how it was in the past.
People should be waking up to this by now living in what was called the most free country in the world only to see the Nazi party force mandates on people to be allowed to work even though Biden promised on recorded video he would not a year prior.

Individual politics are not a prepper subject or relevant to preparing for a world wide war or societal collapse.

Trump put this nation further into debt in 4 years than any other president in history, and before him, the same thing could be said about Obama, and before him, the same the could be said about Bush, and on it goes. In fact, the last President to actually balance the budget and not increase our national debt was..... wait for it.. Clinton! I didn't even vote for that guy.. but Clinton was the last president to not put our nation further into debt.

Each president going forward has set a new record for being irresponsible because no one wants to be in the big chair when the country has to act responsibly and say no to government handouts.

 

[MurphyGuy]

Until 50,000 people become hunters in and out of ‘season’ indiscriminately. That is a remarkably short-term solution that may not be available for decades after a few months of crazed hungry people.

That is most certainly true.. and I can confirm that if we have an EMP, the first thing I'm going to do is to slap my thermal scope on a suppressed rifle, go out at night, and clean out every deer within a mile of my home. And not a single pound will go to waste.

We store heirloom seeds packed in mylar at the bottom a deep freezer.. Enough seeds to plant 10 to 20 acres. We also store 3 to 5 years of food.

Short of an underground bunker, which I'm now considering, we're well prepared for a total SHTF.

 

[12VoltInstalls]

bigoted ultra-conservative religious rule

stereotypes are short-sighted and offensive even if one is not of the target subset and mindset. there’s plenty of bigoted ultra-liberal religious zealots in the state I live in.
Regardless of my opinion or alignments that comment is out of place imho

 

[MurphyGuy]

stereotypes are short-sighted and offensive even if one is not of the target subset and mindset. there’s plenty of bigoted ultra-liberal religious zealots in the state I live in.
Regardless of my opinion or alignments that comment is out of place imho

And they are both wacko.. It is the extremists who are the problem.. doesn't matter if its left or right, their rationalizations are illogical.

That said, the left are not the bigots.. they're the socialists.. Bigotry is almost (almost) exclusively a right wing thing.. and not the normal right wing slightly conservative, but the ultra far alt-right wingers. The white nationalists, KKK, Nazi wannabe's. Kind of funny how every action has an equal and opposite reaction, and that reaction is the ultra liberal left wingers.

And the normal left wingers aren't so bad, its the ultra-liberal left wingers that are the problem.

And I disagree.. Stereotyping is a legitimate tool when applied appropriately.. They key word is "appropriately".. and the technique is called "profiling"... Its not politically correct, its not socially acceptable by today's standards, but it is mathematically accurate.. and if you want success, its not your opinion or your position, its the math that always wins.

Racial profiling doesn't work.. but political profiling, economic profiling, and even religious profiling, all work very well when applied correctly with other tools.

 

[Ralphloren]

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[MurphyGuy]

The media I was talking about is worldwide not the US EMP area. 2A civilians will be painted as the bad guy to the world just like in iraq and afganistan. Any civilian with a gun was a combatant and deserved to die by the US military...will be the same in the USA.

I have to disagree with that.. While I understand your perspective, I just don't agree with it.

Fema Camps or walmarts it doesn't matter, the point is they will confiscate the 2A weapons in order to give food or shelter and they typically do that at a central point for logistics. This is normal and any invading force does this. EMP just makes it easier because people are starving and you can't eat guns or ammo.

I have to disagree with this too, but not on principle, but with mathematics.

This perspective is typical for prepper forums and groups, and many articles and discussions have taken place about it and filled search engines.. But what many fail to realize is that the scope of an EMP will make FEMA look like an oscillating house fan in the middle of a category 5+ hurricane. FEMA will be mathematically insignificant. They can't even muster up to properly handle a bad hurricane and people think they're going to somehow be a factor in a nationwide EMP attack? Not a chance.. not even a remote chance.

Can you imagine trying to bail the water out of one of those shipping container ships with a coffee cup? That's about the right scale comparison.

After an EMP attack, you will most likely never see a FEMA truck again unless someone happens to steal it from a storage facility and take it for a drive. FEMA personal will be taking care of their own families, and even if every one of them mustered and reported to service, along with their families to help, it wouldn't amount to even 0.01% of what is needed to even begin to make a dent.

Unfortunately, most prepper types are not very good at math... or science for that matter. Its like they skipped that part of school and went straight for the isle with drugs, alcohol, bible, guns and flags.

You might see some military floating around at important locations, but other than that, even the military will have their hands full.

Politics and government ideas on freedom is extremely important to most people who want to stay free of government over reach or illegal control. The fact that freedom is now changing to allow mandates is a step change that has not happened before. The fact that all of the top level USA gov lied about everything with COVID and the vaccines just proves this point further. These same people in government are the same lunatics in charge of defending the USA at a time when WW3 looks more possible by the day.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that. I didn't see them lie about anything. As someone who spent their 30 year career as an industrial engineer (electrical engineer) dealing with over 200 employees at a shop I owned, I have a rudimentary understanding of why government sets certain policies.. Not a very good one, but better than most I think. But let me suggest something.. When you get a decade of experience of being in charge of, and responsible for, every aspect of a group of people large enough that you can not remember all their names and faces, then come back and I'd like to hear your experienced opinion on public policy. And while you may not agree with all the policies set forth by government, I think you'll have a better understanding of them.
One thing I can predict is that while you may or may not agree with some of their policies, you're ideas of malfeasance or issues of freedom will no longer be part of your perspective.

No matter if it is any president, it appears they are all on the same side because none of them are concerned with the national debt. They are all proven liars at least in modern history...Bush 1 and 2, Clinton, Obama, Trump, Obiden.

We can agree on that.. Like I said, no president wants to be in the big seat when payment comes due.. No president wants their name associated with an event with such dire consequences.. so they borrow from peter to pay paul.. and the cycle continues.

Paranoia about the government? If you are wise, you would not trust anything that is told by the government coming from lunatics in charge.
We are finding this out now about mrna vaccines they claimed were safe and now are being found to translate to dna.

It's a free country they say so you're allowed(mandated) to drink that koolaid but not allowed to voice your opinion about the koolaid if its negative.

I'll drink my koolaid, you can drink yours. To be honest, my koolaid is science, and it has served me well so I will stick with it. That same science is why I don't fit in with either the left or the right.. and certainly not any of the extremes.

 

[MurphyGuy]

I'll make a prediction:

Putin is going to be killed by his own people, Russia will apologize for his actions and pull out of Ukraine.

just a guess.

 

[Ralphloren]

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[MurphyGuy]

No need to argue about fema. Point was about 2A confiscation by peacekeepers not about fema camps being significant.

I dont trust science after seeing what science has done for us in the last 2 years. Time will tell if the science was a lie or not. No need to argue this or the fact the gov is killing freedom.

I'm strictly using History as my case here on this thread about ww3 and its possibility when someone suggested the scenario of emp in the usa and using NK as the scape goat.
History that is about countries going to war, using deception and lies both to other countries and their own people. History of rights being taken away from people and empires falling and rising or empires made by the seizure of other countries and their resources or the attempts thereof.

There's a lot of possibilities to ponder and thinking outside the box not making assumptions in your favor is the safe approach.

If you always downplay your enemies capability and enhance your own it's a recipe for failure.

This is the main idea but too many people want to think of the usa as always the best and can never be defeated. The last 2 years proved its full of liars and lunatics and I'll include trump in that as well so with that realization I can imagine better how a foreign power might get the upper hand. Of course with Obama Biden doing things in the favor of the enemy makes it even easier to imagine.

I like taking the safe approach and consider all worst case scenarios.

I have to say it seemed like you mostly wanted to assume what I said was unlikely and preferred just to argue against it.

I'm suggesting these cases to get people to think. You're trying to put people back to sleep to believe the lie the gov tells them. That approach historically tends to fail with regularity.

You and I rationalize things very differently. Beyond that observation, I'm not sure what you're point is.. How does any of this apply to the Ukraine war or the path it might take?

As for peacekeepers, you will never see them in the USA, Russia, or China.. These three have Veto power in the UN and the UN can't do anything without approval.

I don't know what deception you think is going on, but my wife (married for 20+ years) is from Kiev, Ukraine and my mother in law still lives there. Three days ago, she was on the floor in her apartment on the 3rd floor as bombs fell around her building.

Can the USA be defeated? Nope.. not by an outside military force, but we could be defeated by internal strife, which is what is happening today. At some point in time in the past twenty years or so, someone started sowing seeds of doubt though social media and it has spread like wildfire. They got people thinking the government is out to get them, or that their freedom is being threatened. Heck, they got people thinking that wearing a mask was somehow a threat to their freedom's and liberties.. (That's a WTF moment).

I don't know what to tell you.. You're going to continue thinking the way you want to think and I'm going to do the same. The only thing I can say is that I'm pushing 60, have been around the world 3 times, been to both Moscow and Ukraine, I'm educated, served my country, ran a business, and stayed away from drugs, alcohol, religion, and most other unhealthy or risky behaviors. I'm also married to a European woman who speaks 5 languages and has an advanced degree in economics.

I put my trust in science.. if I'm going to base my life philosophy on something, I'm going to choose that which has the best track record, and that would be science. You may not agree, and that's fine as we each have to be responsible for our own choices.

My suggestion to you is to pack away some food.. preferably enough for a year.. You probably won't need it but its better to have it than to not have it.

 

[12VoltInstalls]

That said, the left are not the bigots.. they're the socialists.. Bigotry is almost (almost) exclusively a right wing thing.. and not the normal right wing slightly conservative

See to me that’s a bigoted statement. I’m fairly conservative, some I know say extremely conservative. And most of the people I know who think like me are, too.
But when you breath those generalizations- stereotypes- and include your generalizations and prejudgement you are making a bigoted statement because you assume that ‘conservative’ is the subset that predominantly contains your negative character assessments.

Newsflash: stereotyping ‘conservative’ with those distasteful character descriptions which are the antithesis in character of the overarching bulk of the conservatives I know, and way off base for me, is dismissive, self-important, and grossly inaccurate.

I don’t think it violates the rules here to express ones views but I think it violates the rules to use the platform to demean other individuals or posit that any individual or group is inferior based on another’s differing group identity or personal opinion.

 

[MurphyGuy]

See to me that’s a bigoted statement. I’m fairly conservative, some I know say extremely conservative. And most of the people I know who think like me are, too.
But when you breath those generalizations- stereotypes- and include your generalizations and prejudgement you are making a bigoted statement because you assume that ‘conservative’ is the subset that predominantly contains your negative character assessments.

Newsflash: stereotyping ‘conservative’ with those distasteful character descriptions which are the antithesis in character of the overarching bulk of the conservatives I know, and way off base for me, is dismissive, self-important, and grossly inaccurate.

I don’t think it violates the rules here to express ones views but I think it violates the rules to use the platform to demean other individuals or posit that any individual or group is inferior based on another’s differing group identity or personal opinion.

In making your argument, you would have to justify the white supremacist, kkk, the southern iconic symbolism of the confederate flag that remains to this day, and the fact that deeply conservative south went to war to keep their slaves.

Its a bit like these politician gun grabbers who want to take your guns but run around with armed security personal...

There is another option.. and that is you don't understand the definition of conservative? The very definition means "to resist change" and "to hold traditional values".. and since you folks enjoy history so much, go ahead and tell me about American values and traditions throughout the last 200 years... Hint: Women couldn't even vote until 1912, you folks redlined the black population right up until the 1970's, and to this day, cops still pull blacks drivers over at a rate far higher than whites. (Cops being traditionally republicans)

Perhaps you have the terms conservative and libertarian confused? Is it possible you don't understand your own political ideology?

 

[Ralphloren]

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[12VoltInstalls]

and that is you don't understand the definition of conservative? The very definition means "to resist change" and "to hold traditional values"

I understand the written language definition just fine. Literally.

To say that being ‘conservative’ by definition when one is discussing a political, social, or cultural expression of thought in 2022 means the same thing as ‘conservative southerners’ in 1860, 1900, or 1782 is myopic at best.

Conservatives hold to the constitutional process and provisions as originally penned by The Framers. These tenets are even reflected in the thoughtful muse of Thomas Jefferson who once wrote- in his mind questioning a contemporary position of certain citizens holding that blacks were not equal (thereby maybe not men) nor intelligent compared to whites- his observation that a black slave was as astute and capable as himself. The constitution was the basis for anti-slavery thought long before 1861, led to women’s suffrage, and is the plumb-line the States and Supreme Court is supposed to look to today. Further, the pattern of limited government, independent states, no government mandated religion, and economic freedoms is protected by the constitution and amendments.

Conservatives adhere to the constitution which was intended to solve the then unknown future challenges to freedoms.

To warp a cultural definition of ‘conservative’ with a literal, liturgical definition by assigning distasteful meanings - even if ‘exclusionary’ qualifiers are added- is neither accurate nor acceptable. It casts aside the dignity and equality of a large subset of people who usually and often don’t intellectually and religiously fit the definitions assigned to them. One visible example of this cultural ‘sin’ of net-casting was the 2016 ‘deplorable’ incident. The net didn’t fit most people it was thrown upon.

Sure, our history isn’t perfect! To name just two tragedies, what happened with the Native American indians and the way “we” approached Vietnam are shameful. They both fly in the face of God and the constitution.

So when you cast out the net to encompass the evil in the world and include ‘conservative’ as one of the definition evils it disgusted me. The constitution isn’t done with its work, yet. If we return to those values with vigor the intent of the constitution to ensure we are a successful nation because of our commonalities- all men are created equal; the State shall not establish a religion; the people have rights to self-direct- our nation can and will successfully move forward correcting the divergences from our constitution as they become evident.

Kkk and self-importance is the polar opposite of conservative.

The ‘conservative’ (sic) nutcase far right or whatever you want to call it is a small percentage of what people actually feel and do. It is divisive, inaccurate, and inappropriate to broad-cast that net as if these media-emblazoned minority groups are common or large in number.

The Constitution should bring us forward by our commonality and rights as citizens and not be seen as giving freedom to create discord and polarity within the citizenry. THAT’S conservatism.

 

[Ralphloren]

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[12VoltInstalls]

I'll make a prediction:

Putin is going to be killed by his own people, Russia will apologize for his actions and pull out of Ukraine.

just a guess.

That could be ideal

 

[SparkyJJO]

Bush did not do this country many favors.
Obama was no good at all.
Trump seemed to at least care about the country. I know personally I was in the best economic shape under his term. Should never have caved to the lockdown squad tho.
Biden is an absolute trainwreck. Whoever is pulling his strings hates the USA.

My 2 cents.

 

[12VoltInstalls]

this country many favors

I too experienced the best economic situation 2017-2019. 1984-87 was good, too, along with 1997/98 and 2006-08. On average, however, things were generally a struggle after 1989 or so.

Obama was mostly innocuous imho. From any direction you stand.

From my lifetime that started in 1965, what we’re missing today is an American-sounding president with leadership qualities: no matter what side of the aisle you prefer, we are missing a Bill Clinton, a Reagan, a JFK, or an Eisenhower. They all had their negatives, sure. But they sounded like American adults on a mission.
While I’ve never been able to fully identify for myself the missions of Busch Jr or Obama, they appeared to be consistent in being unimpressive, to me.
Then the current administration; just doesn’t feel stable, organized, or even secure. It’s like the institutional memory you could recognize from Reagan through Clinton, Obama, Trump just evaporated.
It’s almost like Trudeau and Biden sat down for a strategy session and wound up drinking coffee and discussing the latest movies cuz they couldn’t think of anything. And settled on that.

 

[MurphyGuy]

Taking science as fact and truth is the biggest problem that keeps us unsafe.

I didn't say to take science as fact and truth.. I said its the best option among the available options.

Science is basically "best guess" based on observations, experimentation, mathematics, etc. It's what we think based on the evidence we see.

Lots of historical examples, cigarettes scientifically were safe in the 1950's, agent orange was scientifically safe, Roundup was scientifically safe. These were proven later to be wrong in court. Is it any wonder why the first thing that was done with the mrna vaccines were to give them exemption to legal liability yet they were proven to be safe as even Dr. Fauci or science himself declared it? Now we're seeing some science studies suggesting otherwise regarding DNA but only time will tell the truth on this but it will be too late if in fact the truth was a lie.

No.. You're looking at products and calling the corporate advertising and marketing "science". It is a mistake made by many.

The X corporation produces a product, claims its safe, and brags about its benefits.. The science community is not a product testing and safety agency.. And just because X Corporation says "scientifically proven", that doesn't mean jack squat until such science has been inspected by the wider community and gone through a peer review process.

Lots of people make the mistake of confusing corporate marketing and sales with actual science. Real modern day science is such a reliable entity that everyone wants to hook their wagon to it.. thus, we hear marketing "scientifically proven" , "clinically safe", then people like yourself think its actual science...

The same is true with defense. The most important thing is truth, not science.
Without truth you can cite anything about science and still have nothing.

Both truth and science are important.. and we get to truth by using science.
You treat them as mutually exclusive concepts.. which reeks of religious indoctrination to be honest.

Of course what is really the truth. We will never know until after it happens and then there is no way back if it is wrong. The point is safety is so important that you should never sacrifice truth for science. This is why engineering models are tested with real hardware until failure proving the models and the science/math. If actual hardware testing can't be done then you know you're taking a risk but depending on what the risk is could be acceptable or not or there may be no other choice.

You get to truth by using science... without science, truth is nothing more than what someone says it is.

The only difference between you and I as there is largely nothing we can do about it is that I won't be surprised if the Rooskies and Chinese have invaded the USA over night and we only know because the TV news that morning will be in russian.

You can never invade a nuclear armed country.. it is the basis of WHY countries have nuclear weapons.

 

[Ralphloren]

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