diy solar

diy solar

Review my system please

platinumphoenix

New Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2022
Messages
31
Alright I'm a decent fellow. But I'm not good at everything. Well, I suck at solar power. This is my third attempt to build a solar power for my cabin. My first two attempts busted and I couldn't figure out how to fix it. I figure after these two attempts and the subsequent attempts at repair, ... And ungodly hours of reading and research, I think roughly 9k dollars of related purchases, I have certainly some right to make childish air grabbing motions and whimper "Help!"... For at least about 30 secs.

Ok I feel better now. *Deep breath* Ok, let's do this. Again.

I came across this website https://www.themudhome.com/mudbuild...-that-work-like-a-dream-its-all-about-voltage

She not specific about what sort of products to buy. So yeah. I admit I'm getting frustrated. But I also have stubbornness issues.

The only thing I have on hand from my previous projects (that's not broken or lost) is two batteries and four solar panels.

IMG_20240515_183201_783.jpg

IMG_20240515_182957_352.jpg
IMG_20240515_183005_469~2.jpg

I'm trying to build this 24v system that this lady is talking about. What do I do now? I just need it to function. I'm not going to hide, I'm poor. No, really. ~ $12,000 a year. Before bills. So hiring an expert or buying the newest fancy expensive tech is probably impossible for me.

I'm currently charging 2 phones, 2 tablets. I would love a tv, Tower PC, game console in my future. But I will trade those luxiries in a hot second for an affordable solar set up.
 
A few questions:

what area do you live (nearest big city) Seattle is a different system than Yuma. How much sun? Any trees?

What do you want to power? Please list all items. Also list the ones that will be on together. We needs watts or amps+voltage. Also pay close attention to high powered items - are there any high-powered items that run at the same time?
This will help us point you to the right sized inverter.

Do you have any access to grid power or generator?
Do you stay in the cabin year around? Or just 3-seasons? Is this your home or just a vacation cabin?

Let’s make a plan before you buy anything else.

Unless your needs are really small four 100w panels will not be enough. So do you have room for more panels?

Let’s start here and then go forward.
 
I need to charge my phone. I need to run a CPAP machine at night. The machine uses less then a standard Tower PC. everything else I'm willing to live without. The largest machine I'm likely to buy is a chest freezer. Probably not a big one though. Most of my food is preserved through canning, salting, drying. I have one led lamp, I don't like artificial light. I do like living with less electricity then average. But I don't like the smelly noisy gas generator I have now. I live in South East Missouri. Closest large city is st Louis. The major city everyone goes to is poplar bluff mo. Did anyone check out that blog post? It was an interesting read.

The system she suggests is this,
24v 1000 - 3000 watt inverter
250 - 1000 watt panels
400 - 1500 ah battery
controller

I have 400ah battery, and 400 watts of panel. I'm not sure how the inverter affects the system. So I'm not sure if I should buy 1k inverter now, and buy 3k if needed. Or just go for 3k right away. The last controller I purchased was apparently defective on arrival. And might have drained my batteries or damaged them. I have a battery charger, but of course everyone i asks has a different opinion how to handle that. So now I'm immobilized due to not knowing if they ARE drained or damaged. Is it safe to charge them up or not? If I follow fool advice I might end up destroying a 700$ investment that took 5 months of saving. 😩
 
OK, let's take stock of what you've got to work with and see what's left:

2x 200Ah 12v batteries - LFP (which is good) but may or may not be damaged. You've basically got 4000wh of available power to work with which is a pretty good supply for the light loads you're working with.

4x 100w panels - Mono panels are good, if small. I'd guess you're probably only going to see 4 hours of decent sun a day ON AVERAGE where you are (winter is gonna SSUUCCKK!!!), so call it 1600Wh of power a day on average. That means it's going to take 3 days of no loads to refill those batteries if you drain them dry.

Battery charger - I'm guessing it's a car charger or is it one that supports LFP on the label? If it's a car charger, set it to maximum amps and the AGM profile, that'll be pretty darned close to what LFP wants. Let them both charge overnight to give them time to fully fill and to balance the cells inside.

So, a couple options here:

Your batteries only have a 100a BMS on them, so if you did a 24v system you'd max out at about 2200w after inefficiencies and such. You can't fully feed a 3000w inverter with that. If you went with 12v you'd be able to pull 200w (because each battery would only be doing half the work) but that still limits you to about 2200w. So either way you're not going to be able to feed a 3Kw inverter UNLESS you get a 3rd battery in parallel on a 12v system, then you could get 3500w. But that's neither here nor there. It seems like the best bet would be a 2500w 24v pure sine inverter. I'd suggest WZRELB or Giandel because they're a good value and you don't have $$Victron$$ money to blow.

The charge controller is going to need to be a 20a at least but that'll max out those panels on a 24v setup with no room to grow. The cost difference between a 20a and a 40a isn't that much at all and would give you some room to add more panels later. Don't go blowing money on $$Victron$$, there are plenty of other brands that will turn solar DC into battery DC just fine. I'm a fan of HQST myself, but Rich Solar, BougeRV, and even PowMr will do the job. Some blue spray paint will impress the folks here. 😉 Avoid EPEver as they've got a known bug that likes to nerf your production by locking onto the first voltage it gets in the morning and never ramping up. Also, if it has USB ports on it, it's a FAKE and will just rip you off. Expect to drop a couple hundred bucks on a good one that's going to be reliable and give you room to grow.

Solar Panels - OK, so 400w isn't really much, but hit up your local Craigslist for used panels off of someone's roof. Out here in the Seattle area the average is $100 for a 250-275w panel. They're large and heavy, but your MPPT controller will be able to convert the higher voltage they put out into battery friendly voltage just fine as long as you don't over volt them. Remember, PVInput voltage is a HARD limit. Hard like granite or diamonds or impressing your future father-in-law.

Inverter - Since you're pretty much starting from scratch, I'd go with something from Giandel or WZRELB as they're both well regarded and MUCH cheaper than $$Victron$$. For certain make sure it's Pure Sine!! You're going to lose about 1-2% or so of the rating to standby power (the power the inverter needs just to exist) so a 3000w inverter might want 30-60w of power all day long just to exist. There's nothing in your list that calls for a low frequency inverter really so don't worry about that. Since you're on a budget you can either save a little now and get a 1000w and get by, or step up to a 2500w and max out your dollar. I'd recommend the larger so you don't have to spend money again later if you can swing it after the SCC and cables and fuses and and and...

You're going to need both an SCC and an inverter to get a system up and running, plus the wires and crimps and such. A shunt would be a REALLY good investment as I didn't see BlueTooth mentioned anywhere on those batteries and you don't want to find out your batteries are dead by the lights going out. Again, don't waste the money on a $$Victron, grab an Aili for about $35 and it'll tell you everything you really need to know.

Having the batteries is the largest hurdle cost wise. You're probably looking at about $600 or so for the rest of the parts to get you up and started. Solar panels will be the next thing you upgrade so you can fill those batteries up faster than you use them. If your battery charger is a regular car charger and NOT something that supports 24v LFP you're going to have to break down and get a proper charger. That's a down side to 24v, you can use a car charger on a 12v system, and you can get 48v Chargeverters from half a dozen places, but 24v is the odd duck here in that to get more than about 10a of charger starts costing RealMoney. You're also going to need a small generator to get you through winter.


OK, with THAT out of the way-

Option B - The Simple Way!

Head over to SignatureSolar and grab a refurbed Growatt 3Kw 24v AIO for $500. Set the 4 solar panels into a single string and connect to the PVInput terminals, connect the batteries in series to the Batt connections, cut the female head off an extension cord and wire into the AC Input terminals, turn everything on and walk away. The Growatt has a low maximum PVInput voltage compared to everyone else out there, BUT that means it doesn't need 150+v of panels just to start up! It's got the 60a AC input charging from an inverter generator (1800w!) and it's got an 80a SCC for the solar. I've got 2400w of array at my cabin feeding one of those on a 304Ah battery I built and it runs GREAT! If you can swing it, the Aili shunt would be a nice touch, and you'll need a 125a Class-T fuse or DC breaker for the main positive from the battery, but it's going to be about the same cost, give you room to expand in the future, give you your generator charging, AND be MUCH easier to put together.

Just my thoughts anyways. 😁
 
I think @Rednecktek have some good advise.

Thanks for answering the questions- they gave much needed context.

Look on Craigslist and other places for cheaper solar panels. Use a cost per watt approach. $$$/watts.
One item to be aware of is Solar panels should be the same specs to combine them together into the same charge controller. You can have multiple charge controllers. Look for larger panels- the cost to mount a large panels is barely (or no) more than a small panel. Look for 350w panels or so. My brother-in-law found some new 390w panels for $124 from a1solarstore.com picked up. That’s just over what Amazon will charge for a 100w panel.

I like the idea of that Growatt AIO (All in one). You can start out with that and your four panels and supplement the power with the generator as needed. Then save up and put in a bunch of large cheap panels later.

Getting a battery monitor shunt is really a great idea- that way you know if your battery is practically full, or mostly empty - and you will know if you need to run the generator or if you will be good until the sun comes out tomorrow.

My usual advice is to use Victron equipment- it works well, has great support, great software, and lasts, but it is more expensive. Some of the cheaper Chinese stuff is just fine and some is garbage. Try to find several opinions on each item before buying to make sure you are getting a good one.

Good Luck

If you have questions- ask them.
 
Last edited:
I need to charge my phone. I need to run a CPAP machine at night. The machine uses less then a standard Tower PC. everything else I'm willing to live without. The largest machine I'm likely to buy is a chest freezer. Probably not a big one though. Most of my food is preserved through canning, salting, drying. I have one led lamp, I don't like artificial light. I do like living with less electricity then average. But I don't like the smelly noisy gas generator I have now. I live in South East Missouri. Closest large city is st Louis. The major city everyone goes to is poplar bluff mo. Did anyone check out that blog post? It was an interesting read.

The system she suggests is this,
24v 1000 - 3000 watt inverter
250 - 1000 watt panels
400 - 1500 ah battery
controller

I have 400ah battery, and 400 watts of panel. I'm not sure how the inverter affects the system. So I'm not sure if I should buy 1k inverter now, and buy 3k if needed. Or just go for 3k right away. The last controller I purchased was apparently defective on arrival. And might have drained my batteries or damaged them. I have a battery charger, but of course everyone i asks has a different opinion how to handle that. So now I'm immobilized due to not knowing if they ARE drained or damaged. Is it safe to charge them up or not? If I follow fool advice I might end up destroying a 700$ investment that took 5 months of saving. 😩


My cpap with the heated tube and humidifier uses around 320wh in 9~10 hours. So 1/4 of a 12v 100ah mini. The power draw varies between 2 and 7 amps depending on settings.


To figure how much power you need you multiply the watts times the hours it is on in a day and that gives you watt hours (wh) consumed. Add that up and add an extra 20% and you will know how much battery you need.

Once you know battery I typically multiply by 5 to get the amount of solar wattage is needed. It is simple but leaves out efficency losses.

Get big enough of a MPPT to handle all your use or get 1/2 and plan to spend for another one later.


I think @Rednecktek have some good advise.

Thanks for answering the questions- they gave much needed context.

Look on Craigslist and other places for cheaper solar panels. Use a cost per watt approach. $$$/watts.
One item to be aware of is Solar panels should be the same specs to combine them together into the same charge controller. You can have multiple charge controllers. Look for larger panels- the cost to mount a large panels is barely (or no) more than a small panel. Look for 350w panels or so. My brother-in-law found some new 390w panels for $124 from a1solarstore.com picked up. That’s just over what Amazon will charge for a 100w panel.

I like the idea of that Growatt AIO (All in one). You can start out with that and your four panels and supplement the power with the generator as needed. Then save up and put in a bunch of large cheap panels later.

Getting a battery monitor shunt is really a great idea- that way you know if your battery is practically full, or mostly empty - and you will know if you need to run the generator or if you will be good until the sun comes out tomorrow.

My usual advice is to use Victron equipment- it works well, has great support, great software, and lasts, but it is more expensive. Some of the cheaper Chinese stuff is just fine and some is garbage. Try to find several opinions on each item before buying to make sure you are getting a good one.

Good Luck

If you have questions- ask them.

You are gonna make @sunshine_eggo cry if you keep bashing his blue stuff.


Now to my comment -

If you string batteries in series you should get an active balancer to put across them. It will keep them both at the same charge verse letting them drift apart. They drift apart in SOC because the internal resistance isn't exactly identical. If they do drift apart you have to disconnect everything and put the batteries in series in a day or so to let them equalize the slow way.

These are pretty cheap, get one rated for your voltages - 12v ->24v - or a universal 2 lead one.

For the battery monitor - I am using this one - you can get a $30 version of some cheap junk, but it is pretty rough and you will probably need to suppy your own screws.

I have been using Li time equipment and thus far it is very well made and isn't junk like some of other no-name stuff. And I do take everything apart to check build quality.


IMO - your milage may vary, but here it is.

For your system - make sure to put a MRBF fuse and holder on the positive terminal of the battery connected. The fuse size depends on the invert size you pick. I get them from mouser electronics as they are cheaper than amazon and good real/non-fake quality.
google "eaton MRBF fuse 80amp" (or whatever size decided below) ... then in the also buy at the bottom left is the fuse holder. Get a spare fuse when you buy just in case you short something so you don't have to wait.

Pick the inverter - then size the wire to 120% of what the inverter draws - then size the fuse to 125% of the wire capacity. This protects the wire from melting and prevents blowing.


This is a sample system from a different thread - I changed it slightly to be like you are doing.


1715874047432.png
 
Last edited:
So, a couple options here:

Your batteries only have a 100a BMS on them, so if you did a 24v system you'd max out at about 2200w after inefficiencies and such. You can't fully feed a 3000w inverter with that. If you went with 12v you'd be able to pull 200w (because each battery would only be doing half the work) but that still limits you to about 2200w. So either way you're not going to be able to feed a 3Kw inverter UNLESS you get a 3rd battery in parallel on a 12v system, then you could get 3500w. But that's neither here nor there. It seems like the best bet would be a 2500w 24v pure sine inverter. I'd suggest WZRELB or Giandel because they're a good value and you don't have $$Victron$$ money to blow.
This what I found. Did I do good?

The charge controller is going to need to be a 20a at least but that'll max out those panels on a 24v setup with no room to grow. The cost difference between a 20a and a 40a isn't that much at all and would give you some room to add more panels later. Don't go blowing money on $$Victron$$, there are plenty of other brands that will turn solar DC into battery DC just fine. I'm a fan of HQST myself, but Rich Solar, BougeRV, and even PowMr will do the job. Some blue spray paint will impress the folks here. 😉 Avoid EPEver as they've got a known bug that likes to nerf your production by locking onto the first voltage it gets in the morning and never ramping up. Also, if it has USB ports on it, it's a FAKE and will just rip you off. Expect to drop a couple hundred bucks on a good one that's going to be reliable and give you room to grow.

Solar Panels - OK, so 400w isn't really much, but hit up your local Craigslist for used panels off of someone's roof. Out here in the Seattle area the average is $100 for a 250-275w panel. They're large and heavy, but your MPPT controller will be able to convert the higher voltage they put out into battery friendly voltage just fine as long as you don't over volt them. Remember, PVInput voltage is a HARD limit. Hard like granite or diamonds or impressing your future father-in-law.
I have no clue what over volt is. That's the first time I've heard it. Could you write it for a first grader? I won't be offended I promise.
You're going to need both an SCC and an inverter to get a system up and running, plus the wires and crimps and such. A shunt would be a REALLY good investment as I didn't see BlueTooth mentioned anywhere on those batteries and you don't want to find out your batteries are dead by the lights going out. Again, don't waste the money on a $$Victron, grab an Aili for about $35 and it'll tell you everything you really need to know.
I've never heard of a shunt before. So is this what you're talking about? It not called a shunt.


Having the batteries is the largest hurdle cost wise. You're probably looking at about $600 or so for the rest of the parts to get you up and started. Solar panels will be the next thing you upgrade so you can fill those batteries up faster than you use them. If your battery charger is a regular car charger and NOT something that supports 24v LFP you're going to have to break down and get a proper charger. That's a down side to 24v, you can use a car charger on a 12v system, and you can get 48v Chargeverters from half a dozen places, but 24v is the odd duck here in that to get more than about 10a of charger starts costing RealMoney. You're also going to need a small generator to get you through winter.
This is the charger I have. It looks like it won't work.

I'll try this instead?

you can swing it, the Aili shunt would be a nice touch, and you'll need a 125a Class-T fuse or DC breaker for the main positive from the battery, but it's going to be about the same cost, you room to expand in the future, give you your generator charging, AND be MUCH easier to put together.

Just my thoughts anyways. 😁
That sounds better then the previous work, but I'm not sure how to implement the fuse or breaker. So looks like it's better for me to use the first suggestion. :)

Thank you. This looks like it would solve my issues. Oh, I hope!
 
That last link is not a controller. It's a shunt to monitor battery usage and state of charge.

FYI I've snagged Victron controllers off ebay for the same price as cheapo brands by keeping an eye on listings.
 
have no clue what over volt is. That's the first time I've heard it. Could you write it for a first grader? I won't be offended I promise.
Ok, so every SCC has a limit on how much voltage it can take in before it releases the magic orange smoke. Imagine if you were to take a car headlight (a 12v bulb) and wired it to the wall outlet in your house (120v), the bulb can take a little difference from what it's designed for, but in the wall outlet it would get REALLY bright right before it just turned into smoke.

Same thing with charge controllers. They're all built with transistors and capacitors and magic-smokiters inside and are only rated for so many volts before they cook off. That's listed as the PVInput Max and they don't give you any headroom on that. That BougeRV you're looking at has a max input of 95v and they DON'T mean 96v is OK. When you start looking at panels, one of the listed specs is the Voc (Voltage, Open Curcuit) which is the voltage the panel will put out with no loads in good sun at 25c. Since panels put out a little more voltage when they're cold, it's common to try to stick to 90% or less of the PVInput limit.

So, on your panels you'll see that Voc rating of 22.8v which means if you string all 4 of them in series you'll have 91.2v going in to the SCC which is really pushing it. When the sun comes out on that crisp winter day you could likely fry your controller. When you're looking at used panels, they like to have a VoC in the 45-50v range so you'll be risking it with even 2 panels in series so you have to plan for that.

The way around that is to use less panels in a string and parallel more strings. So instead of taking those 4 panels you have now in series and hoping you stay under that 95v limit, you can wire 2 in series, then the other 2 in series, and parallel them together. That keeps your voltage in the 46v range.


I've never heard of a shunt before. So is this what you're talking about? It not called a shunt.
That's a shunt, but only works for lead acid flavors. This is the unit I was thinking of. It's well regarded and deals with LFP nicely.


The charger you have will get you pretty close if you stick with 12v but yes, it does you no good on a 24v setup. The other charger only provides 10a on a 24v battery which isn't much, like 20 hours of charging. You might want to step that up a bit if you can, but good 24v chargers get expensive fast.


That sounds better then the previous work, but I'm not sure how to implement the fuse or breaker. So looks like it's better for me to use the first suggestion

Breakers are easy, get a DC rated breaker, a DIN rail breaker box makes life easier but they often come with a piece of rail you can screw to a wall, run the positive wire to the breaker, then out the breaker to the Growatt. A fuse works the same way, battery->fuse->wire->inverter. Whether you go component or AIO you're still going to need the same thing so it's a wash either way.
 
So my charger can charge a 12v battery? Does that mean I Can charge each of my batteries alone before hooking them up together?
 
So can I get a charge controller with a higher PVInput Max? I suppose it doesn't really matter if I can parallel series of solar panels. So I can in theory have four sets of solar panels hooked up in series, then connected in parallel to the setup. That's eight individual panels. I'm hoping I know what I'm talking about.
 
Yup. You'd be pushing the voltage limit of that SCC but you could easily get 2 more panels and do a 3s2p (3 in series, 2 parallel strings) and get 600w on that controller without batting an eye. When you start looking at the 60a+ size controllers they often have 150v limits so you can get larger panels in series on those.

The advantage of series strings is that the wire thickness is based on Amps, so high volts at lower amps = high watts and thinner/cheaper cables.

You can also, in the future, get another SCC and its own set of panels and connect that to the batteries as well. The 2 different SCC's will just ignore each other and plug along happily.

BTW, I just bought one of those refurb Growatts last night for my laundry room, so supplies are running out. $542 with tax and shipping. 😁
 
I still have one question before I move on to putting all the pieces together. How did this lady get such a efficient solar setup that doesn't run out of juice? She claiming 300 days of rain in northern Spain, 120w solar panels, 230 ah battery?!?! She not stuck with "small stuff" for appliances, in fact I'm sure i have less equipment than she does. She says she can easily go three days without sun and not run out of power, without rationing. And yet I being warned not to sell my generator. What is she doing that I'm not doing? <--- that's the mystery that truly intrigues me. :unsure:


As far as I can see our set up isn't too different.
 
It's creative writing. The system is Capable of running a washer OR a toaster OR a tea pot, etc. Not at the same time, and each one will kill her batteries, but it can Technically run those loads...

Her picture shows a 1200w inverter which means each of her listed devices is maxing out or overloading that inverter. It also sounds like she had Lead batteries in Turkey and has moved to LFP batteries in Spain. I think the big key is:

Even on a rainy day I get enough to charge my laptop.

So she's generating enough to charge the laptop, which a "High End Gaming System" tops out in the 100w range, the 2 60w panels she claims to have sound like bullshit, especially with that cheap PWM controller in the photo..

Her claims fall hard into the "Extra ordinary claims" section.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top