Schneider xw pro 6848 not powering up with eg4 lithium battery

[robby]

I think you got lucky, I think the electronic portion of this particular model was such that it is just on the edge of not starting about half of the inverters out there. You could had a lot of these to deal with like the charger that was out of specs. ( compared to labeling). You need his inverter.

You know that's a very valid point that I did not think of before. As the Inverter gets older the Capacitors are going to experience a change in their ESR. An Inverter that starts Today may not start a year from now.

 

[houseofancients]

I think if I were SS at this point I would replace Koldsimer’s Inverter. Give him the one you purchased. At this point he may even need something more for his troubles. Hire a installer to do the work to his satisfaction.

oh come on, this is totally unrealistic and rather opputunistic

 

[Koldsimer]

I'm satisfied with the LL batteries and don't want or need anything else from SS. Oh, except my refund for the two 25a battery charges that don't work right. lol

 

[mnd]

oh come on, this is totally unrealistic and rather opputunistic

That some folks feel shifting integration risks to a retailer is reasonable baffles me, especially on a DIY forum.

 

[robby]

oh come on, this is totally unrealistic and rather opportunistic

Giving him an Inverter just as an upgrade would have been insane but I never knew that Koldsimer was off grid. Given the fact that he could not just send in his Inverter and SS would not go to him. It would have made total sense for SS to give him their Inverter and take his. That is exactly what we would have done at my old Jobs.

Right now SS has a 6848 that is a paper weight. With Koldsimer Inverter in their shop they would have had a unit that they could have analyzed and found out what is going on during startup.
It would have also been a good testing device to make sure that all future batteries they import don't have the same issue.

 

[Koldsimer]

That some folks feel shifting integration risks to a retailer is reasonable baffles me, especially on a DIY forum.

You might feel differently if you had spent thousands of dollars with a company that ensured you their product would work fine with your setup but it doesn't.

 

[Mahendra Gomanie]

I think if I were SS at this point I would replace Koldsimer’s Inverter. Give him the one you purchased. At this point he may even need something more for his troubles. Hire a installer to do the work to his satisfaction. If he would accept this then bring his in and test it. I am sure most people here except you will encounter the problem on the bench that he did in the field. If you don’t then you have a legitimate position that it was something on his setup. If it doesn’t start the inverter then use it as a benchmark for all batteries in the future. Tell your supplier to send a sample for testing and test it on that inverter. If it doesn’t start it go back to then and tell them it doesn’t meet our testing parameters.
I think you got lucky, I think the electronic portion of this particular model was such that it is just on the edge of not starting about half of the inverters out there. You could had a lot of these to deal with like the charger that was out of specs. ( compared to labeling). You need his inverter.

This was requested.
I challenged SS .
I was serious on this swap

 

[Mahendra Gomanie]

Well to bad he cant" jump start his inverter" with grid power and charger
Like i am doing

Giving him an Inverter just as an upgrade would have been insane but I never knew that Koldsimer was off grid. Given the fact that he could not just send in his Inverter and SS would not go to him. It would have made total sense for SS to give him their Inverter and take his. That is exactly what we would have done at my old Jobs.

Right now SS has a 6848 that is a paper weight. With Koldsimer Inverter in their shop they would have had a unit that they could have analyzed and found out what is going on during startup.
It would have also been a good testing device to make sure that all future batteries they import don't have the same issue

 

[Mahendra Gomanie]

You know that's a very valid point that I did not think of before. As the Inverter gets older the Capacitors are going to experience a change in their ESR. An Inverter that starts Today may not start a year from now.

Well this is not the same for a new Outback radian

 

[mnd]

You might feel differently if you had spent thousands of dollars with a company that ensured you their product would work fine with your setup but it doesn't.

I purchased an inverter and a battery to do testing against prior to jumping in with both feet.

If it doesn't work I guarantee I'll be able to put my hands on a spool of Romex and a clamp on multimeter (though a current shunt and a DSO might be the better tool.)

 

[Mahendra Gomanie]

I'm satisfied with the LL batteries and don't want or need anything else from SS. Oh, except my refund for the two 25a battery charges that don't work right. lol

Yes they kinda selling this more than the battery made me wonder why.
Then boom battery cannot start reputable inverter brands

 

[Horsefly]

To be fair, we have the same inverter and used the batteries that were returned and there wasn't an issue with the inverter starting up (as I showed on video) and there are so many variables in an end users set up that you could likely find issues with every battery and every inverter if you tried hard enough.

So based on the fact that you can get it to work you seem to have declared - via your Toyota Corolla analogy - success. It isn't the battery, it is @Koldsimer and his set-up.

He has demonstrated that his system starts up with several other batteries, including another model from your company. Just using your same logic, it is clearly a problem with the battery, not his set-up.

 

[Solar Guy Richard]

So based on the fact that you can get it to work you seem to have declared - via your Toyota Corolla analogy - success. It isn't the battery, it is @Koldsimer and his set-up.

He has demonstrated that his system starts up with several other batteries, including another model from your company. Just using your same logic, it is clearly a problem with the battery, not his set-up.

Not at all - if that was the case, then I wouldn't have been working with my tech bench for the last 2 months. We are still attempting to duplicate the issue (in fact we have been getting more inverters in, including more Schneiders) and find out what the exact issue. We are 100% agreeing that there is something here - where that problem lies is the issue.

 

[Mahendra Gomanie]

So its a maste plan to show that all the inverter brands are problematic and not the battery

 

[Koldsimer]

Not at all - if that was the case, then I wouldn't have been working with my tech bench for the last 2 months. We are still attempting to duplicate the issue (in fact we have been getting more inverters in, including more Schneiders) and find out what the exact issue. We are 100% agreeing that there is something here - where that problem lies is the issue.

To use your toyota corolla analogy...

New car buyer takes delivery of his corolla and drives it home. Next day, car wont start so he calls the dealer. Dealer responds by saying that all toyota corollas on their lot start just fine. But not to worry, the dealer will continue to look at the cars on their lot to see if any have trouble starting.

 

[Mr-Sandman]

I wish the owner would come back and tell us what he plans to do to fix the issue as that is not within Richards power.

Actually I don't think this is a good idea, I've seen his post on here. VERY defensive and terrible at customer service. Richard should be his forum guy for sure from what I've seen.

They have completely different manufacturers and BMS PCBs, different programming, etc - so basically they are different batteries completely. No real way of comparing them apples to apples currently.

So @RichardfromSignatureSolar is the plan, since you can't reproduce or fix the issues people are having with the LifePower4 batteries, to replace the LifePower4 batteries for those with the startup issue with EG4 LL batteries? Or you just going to offer 100% refund of product/shipping and pay for return shipping?

 

[Solar Guy Richard]

Actually I don't think this is a good idea, I've seen his post on here. VERY defensive and terrible at customer service. Richard should be his forum guy for sure from what I've seen.


So @RichardfromSignatureSolar is the plan, since you can't reproduce or fix the issues people are having with the LifePower4 batteries, to replace the LifePower4 batteries for those with the startup issue with EG4 LL batteries? Or you just going to offer 100% refund of product/shipping and pay for return shipping?

We are always going to want to do a quick troubleshooting session to eliminate common mistakes, but each RMA is reviewed individually and so far everyone has been satisfied with the outcome. I'm not directly involved with that process but I definitely provide input. That being said, we will still individually review any RMA claims (eg is this issue being reported a year after an order or a few days, etc). My experience has pretty much always seen our company err in favor of the customer.

 

[Mr-Sandman]

Well a known issue with the LifePower4 battery not starting inverters should be an easy, Sorry would you like EG4 LL's or a full refund and we'll pay to ship them back to us... People that spend this kind of money on batteries expect them to work, PERIOD! They will already be upset, so I'd have a canned process to handle this ready to expedite this for customers with this issue.

ANOTHER thing you need to disclose on your website that this is an issue with the LifePower4 batteries if you are going to continue to sell them. This isn't a small issue. People expect a freaking $1,500 lithium battery to power up their inverters.

 

[robby]

Actually I don't think this is a good idea, I've seen his post on here. VERY defensive and terrible at customer service. Richard should be his forum guy for sure from what I've seen.

Yes I agree he sucks at Customer Service but people sitting here beating up the messenger is not getting those in need of help any help. We can keep asking Richard Specific questions but he can only give us answers that fall under his purview. I would rather hear it from the owner himself so that it is a done deal rather then fry Richard daily when he has no definitive answers.

We still have the 5000EU or US thread that is left up in the air with no answer. Last post had a schematic with two separate grounds! I see that "Will" and others have just dropped the debate and labeled it as unsolved and you should just avoid the Inverter.

I would like to see this battery one solved so people can get some relief.

 

[Bluedog225]

820. Impressive.

 

[Trkarl]

I just took delivery of 3 48v 100 a/h waterproof EG4 batteries and had the same problem with my inverter not starting. I had read this thread and watched videos about precharging the inverter so at least I was prepared with a resistor to jump my breaker before turning it on If it didn’t work first.

The inverter is an SMA Sunny island 5048u I bought in 2009. When I first tried turning on the main breaker to the inverter I waited for about 10 seconds then turned on the breaker on the front of the inverter. Within less than a second everything shut down.

Then I turned off all the breakers and let it set for about a minute. Then turned on the breaker on the inverter and jumped the main breaker with the resistor setup. Within two seconds the inverter lit up in it’s standby mode. I then switched on the main breaker and started the inverter into inverting mode. Everything is working fine now but just wanted to let you guys know the start problem is not just with the server rack batteries.

 

[Mr-Sandman]

Oh Dang, @RichardfromSignatureSolar looks like your battery start up problems are multiplying.

Does the EG4 Waterproof batteries share the same BMS as the EG4 LifePower4 batteries?

Does the EG4 Waterproof batteries have a pre-charge function? That could be causing the need for external pre-charging like you are seeing if they do not.

 

[Solar Guy Richard]

Oh Dang, @RichardfromSignatureSolar looks like your battery start up problems are multiplying.

Does the EG4 Waterproof batteries share the same BMS as the EG4 LifePower4 batteries?

Does the EG4 Waterproof batteries have a pre-charge function? That could be causing the need for external pre-charging like you are seeing if they do not.

Different manufacturer, different BMS. In fact, same manufacturer as the LL model that is the one that everyone says 'works', but not sure if the BMS is identical or if they have built in precharge resistors. Double checking now.

 

[Solar Guy Richard]

Verified that the waterproof batteries do not have a built in charge resistor. This explains @Trkarl your issue. It is not related to this post.

 

[Trkarl]

Verified that the waterproof batteries do not have a built in charge resistor. This explains @Trkarl your issue. It is not related to this post.

Thanks for checking on the built in charge resistor. I do think though it does have some relevance since the issue was with starting inverters. The website states:

Installation is as easy as:
1. removing your lead-acid batteries and replacing them with EG4-WP Lithium Batteries
2. attach your cables
3. secure them down-- DONE!

But that is obviously not the case. Maybe there should be a disclaimer about these inverter startup issues? Thanks Richard for all the time you have put into these issues on this thread. Your efforts are much appreciated.