Seeking advice on home standby generator

[Mercracing]

I have a Sol-ark 15k inverter and eight SOK batteries. I would like to add a generator to the system. I have a Honda Eu700is (probably just laege enough) but, the property has a natural gas well so I am leaning towards a small standby generator. Does anyone have any feedback on one brand versus another? I has been looking at the Champion 8500 propane/7500 natural gas option, but there is very little information out there (good or bad) for the product line.

 

[Bluedog225]

I got the champion 9000 or so propane/gasoline option. Been great. Several months of heavy construction and occasional use over the last few years. No issues.

I’ve seen several favorable reports on champion for cost/value.

 

[DIYrich]

Tri fuel conversion of the honda.

 

[Mercracing]

Do you have any advice on who's kit to use? When using a natural gas kit can the generator be started remotely by Sol-ark? The generator I have only has something like four hours on it so I wouldn't mind using it. My other concern with the Honda is it only being 5500 running watts. This wouldn't be an issue three of the four seasons. When it's a 100* plus the entire property pulls between 4000 and 4500 watts so it wouldn't leave much overhead for charging the batteries.

 

[DIYrich]

Do you have any advice on who's kit to use?

motorsnorkle

When using a natural gas kit can the generator be started remotely by Sol-ark?

no. Generator has to be designed for that. There is more to it than pushing a button. Think about telling you 5 year old to push the button to start the generator, and not be able to tell them anything else.

The generator I have only has something like four hours on it so I wouldn't mind using it. My other concern with the Honda is it only being 5500 running watts. This wouldn't be an issue three of the four seasons. When it's a 100* plus the entire property pulls between 4000 and 4500 watts so it wouldn't leave much overhead for charging the batteries.

As long as you average 30kWh per day, and have 30kWh of batteries, it doesn't matter any single moment. Eventually load drops (to average 30kWh), and the batteries charge. The 4kWh consumed while charging is power that didn't need to be stored in the battery.

The problem case is if you draw more than the generator, and the batteries are too low to help out. Hence 24hr worth of power in the batteries. You recharge during hours 17-24. When you start charging at hour 17, you have 7 hours of power in the batteries to assist.

 

[Mercracing]

The Honda eu7000is has the ability to use a twobwire start kit which will allow it to be turned on and off by the inverter.

 

[DIYrich]

The Honda eu7000is has the ability to use a twobwire start kit which will allow it to be turned on and off by the inverter.

Choke might be an issue, but it should work. The problem is: I don’t think the conversion kit is designed to be a shutoff valve. I don't know if I would trust it with a pressurized gas line when the motor is not running. A small leak can cause a big problem.

 

[OffGridInTheCity]

I have a Sol-ark 15k inverter and eight SOK batteries. I would like to add a generator to the system. I have a Honda Eu700is (probably just laege enough) but, the property has a natural gas well so I am leaning towards a small standby generator. Does anyone have any feedback on one brand versus another? I has been looking at the Champion 8500 propane/7500 natural gas option, but there is very little information out there (good or bad) for the product line.

I have a 121kwh battery bank and 2 backup generators....
1) Honda eu3000is dual-fuel conversion => ~2000w charging via inefficient 120v chargers
2) Champion 100297 8000w dual-fuel => ~5500w charging via Chargeverter 5000 @ 100a

Even though the Champion 100297 is billed as "8000w" - https://www.championpowerequipment.com/product/100297-8000-watt-dual-fuel-generator/ - it has 30a @ 240v breakers and maxes out at 7,200w.

Effectively, I can run the Chargeverter 5000 @ 100a. At battery voltage of 55v * 100a = 5,500w output pulling over 6,000w from the generator due to AC -> DC conversion losses. 5,500w charging capability is a disappointingly less than the 8,000w-10,000w of charging I was imaging from the picture above

In my case, 5500w of charging is 10hrs to do 55kwh = only 46% charge of my battery bank / 1 day of winter consumption! And it's not practical to run a cheaper generator 10hrs / day every day of a winter (very loud / maint / fuel). So in reality, I could do maybe 3hrs / day = 16kwh (or 6hrs every other day) which gives me *minor* backup capability rather than the *substantial* backup capability I was imagining.

I'd look hard at your numbers...
1) what you need
2) what the generator can actually produce that can be consumed for loads or charging (take into account efficiency losses, max circuit breakers on the generator, etc)
3) how many hours will it be required to run to meet what you're needing and will neighbors put up with the noise and is it mechanically suitable for the number of hours w/minimal maint.
4) and fuel... It's on the order of 5kwh / gallon for gasoline or propane

If you have or plan a larger system and want 'substantial backup', you may very well need a bigger class, perhaps permanent install, type generator system with natural gas feed or 1000lb propane tank.

Don't get me wrong - nothing wrong with starting with you're honda eu7000is and see how it goes - just sharing my journey so far ...

 

[DIYrich]

I think the recommendation is to run the chargeverter at 80amp max for extended periods.

I would get two chargeverters and run them in parallel. Set to draw 6,400 watts from the generator. That you could run for a long time.

 

[50ShadesOfDirt]

Lots of good points above, as you ponder the path(s) to take:

1. generators need to be in the "auto-start" class, to have a chance at getting hooked in properly to your inverter's "auto-start" feature. the biggest draw-back is whether or not the gen has "auto-" features from the start (automatic-choke, auto-start, etc.) While you could try to add these on, you'll be looking at a "void your warranty" scenario, because you modded the gen. Gens do fail, need service, etc., and you don't want to be ripping off mods in order to get it in for service.

2. power output: most open-frame gens put out "not perfect" (higher THD) power. Most LF inverters (Tier-1) don't care about THD, but most AIO's do care, and will refuse the gen output if it isn't in their THD range. Thus, not only do you need a gen with all the auto-start "features", if you have an AIO scenario, you might also need a very low THD output gen. The "chargeverter" is a way around this, if all other conditions are met, so some help here.

3. generators have to be sized right from the start. I wouldn't run one past 75% of it's rated load numbers. So, some math is required, to figure out what your recharge load (solark + sok batteries) is, and then make sure the gen you choose can support that. At the very least, probably a 10kw or larger model. You have other constraints, so probably propane or natural gas (tri-fuel), without modding. Finally, the gen needs all the auto- features built in.

Given your situation, I'd keep the EU7000IS as your backup to critical house loads, and possibly use it in a manually driven "chargeverter" scenario. If you want to add in "auto-" features, I'd add the appropriate gen (either open-frame, inverter-gen, or standby) that specifically supports your sol-ark's gen power input requirements.

In my case, I can't stand the Generac's or Honda's of the world (either over-priced, bad service, lack of critical features, or all of these) ... so I went with Westinghouse open-frame gens with all the nifty auto- features, remote fob start, and is propane-based. My LF inverter (magnum) eats the power just fine, and I can automate/program the recharge function, as this brand has an external ATS box I can plug into its smart-port, and do what I need to do.

In your case, you'll need careful research and specs, and you'll still have to choose wisely, to get the gen that meets all your constraints and the sol-ark's requirements ... it's possible, but may not be easy.

Hope this helps ...

 

[ePowerBank]

Great input to chew on from above. Some added points from my new and similar experience:

1. Was told generator should be 1.5 X inverter size, so battery and loads can be managed. I ended up about 1.2, but not worried and I can easily adjust my charger if needed for my passive home backup that's also an auto backup for sump pump.

2. As suggested above, understand exactly what you need. The best thing I ever did was install monitoring system (Sense) that gave me the understanding of what I needed vs wanted. For example, I resolved for home backup no need for 5ton AC or 240v ovens as I live in MI with fully finished 2000 sq ft basement. Other than AC and 240v ovens, I can run HVAC for 5000 home, 3 refrigerators, all the lights, ceiling fans in all rooms etc etc.

3. I went with dual (parallel) inverter generators to manage the THD (<5%). Upgraded my NG meter for increased consumption (potentially). Needed to consider derating of gas inverter generators to about 80% of gas, therefore, 9kw is about 7.2kw for NG. I ended up using Northern Tool open frame product so I could do the conversion myself using Century Fuel kits. This was riskiest part since I gave up my warranties on 2 brand new generators, but felt that wasn't bad as they're still much less cost than name brand (Honda/Generarc) alternative. One pain I had with the product was their "parallel box" wasn't truly a proper 50A plug, so I ended up making my own parallel box. In the end I'm happy to have over 7KW of NG back up power that's less than 100# per unit, so portable and capable, not to mention almost as quiet at the Honda for fraction of $$$$$.

https://www.northerntool.com/products/powerhorse-inverter-generator-4500-surge-watts-3700-rated-watts-open-frame-carb-compliant-83171

4. To go on further about generator selection, it's really hard to find high KW Inverter Generators, that are NG as well !! Again, I went open frame so I could modify myself. Using 3/4 flex line with dual manifold Quick Connects as a portable solution, that can go with me if I move. Costco sells a Firman trial fuel, but the THD is atrocious! Your Honda is one of the best, but remember with NG 7200 becomes ~ 5.7kw. If you didn't already have the Honda, I'd look at:

GXS7100iRD - 7100 Watt Dual Fuel With Remote Start Inverter Generator

The A-iPower GXS7100iRD Dual Fuel With Remote Start Inverter Generator provides 7,100 starting watts and 5,700 running watts on gasoline and 6,400 starting watts and 5,100 running watts on propane.

a-ipower.com

or

https://www.northerntool.com/products/powerhorse-inverter-generator-7500-surge-watts-6500-rated-watts-74006

In my limited experience, I'd think the top shelf product you already have, the 15K Sol-Ark and the Honda you could manage a definite option, as a start point. Think of as the mandatory prerequisite class "you must" take before taking master level class. New modern inverter may be able to manage exactly what you need, using generator and/or grid power to both charge batteries and handle load(s).

I'd check with who ever helped with the SOK's or SOL-ARK to map up some options and run some numbers.

Lastly, not sure if I missed something, but is this for off-grid, back-up, grid-tied etc ? My case was primarily auto backup (super UPS) for my sump pump, then manual (passive) back up for the whole house (over night without geni's running).

Happy Hunting !