Sol-Ark Inverters 8 and 12K

[BobH]

It looks like the gentleman in S. Africa is making great strides in his effort to communicate with the Sunsynk/Deye/Sol-Ark inverter.

"Web interface sorted. I can now remotely alter my inverter settings."

 

[Ampster]

Paying a premium for a fancy CAN bus enabled battery is unappealing to me. I prefer to parallel connect multiple DIY LFP packs and scale that with a well thought out disconnect scheme.

That is exactly my theory. I have an Outback Skybox but the issue is the same with my Orion BMS. They both have CANBUS and the terms that Orion uses are well defined. I just can not find any thing from Outback. Alternately i may sell the Orion and split my 2P16S pack into two parallel packs, each with its own contactor disconnect using two 16S Chargery BMSs. At least that way I would reduce the shock to the inverter that a full disconnect would create.
I agree with @Craig , that this should not be difficult for these hybrid manufacturers to provide something. A simple contact closure, or inverter on/off switch circuit would be enough.

 

[Haugen]

Thankfully, I have the south facing section of my roof that is mostly clear.
There are 2 vents that the engineers said we have to go around, so I did a layout to accommodate them. One is the dryer vent, the other is the plumbing vent.
Anyone see any issues with this?

 

[Ampster]

Anyone see any issues with this?

Was there any reason to go landscape versus portrait? I can't tell from the diagram if there are sufficient setbacks from the peak or sides. How much difficulty to move vents?

 

[Hedges]

Thankfully, I have the south facing section of my roof that is mostly clear.
There are 2 vents that the engineers said we have to go around, so I did a layout to accommodate them. One is the dryer vent, the other is the plumbing vent.
Anyone see any issues with this?

You didn't include a compass or show which way roof sloped, but there was an address ...

Where I am, we now need to leave a 3' walkway on two edges and below the ridge.
Looks like you kept panels away from the eaves due to trees, butted panels against the ridge.
And there is some shade, during some hours or seasons.

Will two of those vents shade some cells?

Why not go ahead and put some panels on another face, run conduit along the ridge?

 

[Haugen]

Was there any reason to go landscape versus portrait? I can't tell from the diagram if there are sufficient setbacks from the peak or sides. How much difficulty to move vents?

20 panels won't fit portrait along the top
If the dryer vent didn't go out the roof, its pretty major construction to get to a wall.
It's moot anyway, I just paid for the new metal, so not changing.

Where I am, we now need to leave a 3' walkway on two edges and below the ridge.
Looks like you kept panels away from the eaves due to trees, butted panels against the ridge.
And there is some shade, during some hours or seasons.

I had not heard anyone talk about that kind of easement. Looking at other panels in the area, there does seem to be room on the sides. That might be an issue.
The trees are going to go away, so shading won't be a problem.

Will two of those vents shade some cells?

Why not go ahead and put some panels on another face, run conduit along the ridge?

The vents about 8-10" tall. The one that concerns me is the plumbing vent to the left. I would like to cut it shorter to go under the panels. With the rounded top, I don't think the goosenecks offer much shade except to the east and west. The landscape orientation helps prevent them from shading.

The rest of the roof is east west facing and all are a 6 or 7 slope. What would be the benefit of installing panels that get sun only half the day? I would think it would be better to move them to form another row.

 

[Hedges]

The walkway isn't an easement, just new codes in my area. The older designs which predate that rule are grandfathered. Same goes for AFCI and module level Rapid Shutdown. If such rules haven't been adopted in your area then no problem.

Panels are probably held to the rails with top clamps, so they can slide away from vents some inches. Could also extend above ridge, maybe just in back half if you don't want visible from street. Could also rotate to portrait orientation in that area, fitting more. In my location, height less than about 18" above roof doesn't require structural permit.

I would prefer SE and SW over E and W. Looks to me like front of house might be E-SE so it gets more morning sun.
Your latitude is 28 degrees and Earth's inclination 23 degrees, so there are months when sun passes over the East facing roof giving many hours of sun. You'd have to check calculators to see how much sun when. It will be considerably better than just 50% of the South facing roof, at least in the summer. May even be more than the South facing roof as weather warms up more late summer.

I suppose you are going to be grid-tie. Is there time of use rate? Will you also have battery backup?
Without time of use, power at any hour is worth the same. My area it is now $0.15 until 3:00 PM, $0.30 until 4:00 PM, $0.45 until 9:00 PM.

Late summer when you use more air conditioning, the E-NE facing roof probably makes more power during the time air conditioner is working hardest, and during what may be peak time of use, than the South (S-SE) facing which will only get sun at an oblique angle.

Inverter has max wattage. Panels at other angles spread out the peak, more total Wh for a given W peak. If you have batteries, starts recharging earlier in the morning and flattens production which may match load. But all strings on a single MPPT need to be same length, unless they have optimizers. Some inverters have several MPPT.

 

[BobH]

Don't hold me to this & check with your county building dept & your installer.... If the county/AHJ is using the most recent codes, then from the street side there needs to be a 36" wide path from eave to ridge on a portion of the roof. If a street-side, adjacent roof face can be accessed, then the 36" path is allowed to be on that face. And if your panel square footage is under 33% (or 30%?) of the total roof area, then you are allowed an 18" ridge setback on both sides of the ridge where the panels are located. It looks like you have well under 30% of your total roof covered in panels. Valleys & hips also fall under the 18" per side. If the adjacent roof face to the hip or valley doesn't have any panels, then you can mount them right to the edge of that feature.

Go to this HeatSpring training site & watch the this link (See Sean White) "Solar Building Codes, Fire Codes, Electric Vehicles, Rapid Shutdown and Energy Storage Systems". There are 2 videos from a guy that helped write the national codes for fire & emergency personnel setbacks. There are a lot of examples they go through.

If the county isn't using the latest version of the codes, then it can either require 36" at the ridge or if they go by a really old code, no setbacks at all.
There are also wind requirements that dictate the rack support mount spacing depending on how close the panel are to the eave & ridge areas. If you get close to the edges (Zone 2) then the spacing needs to be reduced/narrowed to provide more strength. The worst areas are near the eave corners & ridge/eave ends (Zone 3). The zone distance ('a") is usually 10% of the narrowest part of a building's side. If you have a 45' x 75' building foot print, then a = 0.1 x 45'(540") = 54" => so panels within 54" of roof edges need to have the rack mounts spaced per the manufacturer's tables on snow & wind loading. I think in your area, which is nearly the same latitude as mine, a 140 mph wind zone is used for these calculations.

Anyway, your installer should have all these details since it needs to be part of the permit paperwork. I would ask him for a copy.

Wind Zones...

 

[The New JC777]

Do the Sol Ark inverter/chargers need to be set up at the factory for full output 120vac or 120/240 split phase or can this be done by the installer?
Can a EU unit be setup for US use?

 

[Haugen]

@Hedges and @BobH, you have both given me a lot to chew on.

I should be having the site survey soon with the installer. I'm sure they are up to date on the code. I sent them an email tonight to work with me to be sure I can be here to walk through it with them.

The wind should not be a problem. Using the Ace A2NW clamps will hold the panels firmly using the standing seams on the roof every 16". The landscape orientation will ensure that 4 clamps hold each side of every panel.

I am building a 16S bank of 280Ah cells for my battery backup. With this, I may need a little grid assist each night, but I'm hoping to sell back a little during the day.

 

[Roqm]

If BMS detects cell over voltage how would it tell sok-ark to stop charging?

Usually when a bms sees a fault it disconects the charge/discharge and the inverter would have nothing to charge

 

[Roqm]

Do the Sol Ark inverter/chargers need to be set up at the factory for full output 120vac or 120/240 split phase or can this be done by the installer?
Can a EU unit be setup for US use?

Full power is 120/240 or about 34a per leg(8k)

 

[Craig]

Usually when a bms sees a fault it disconects the charge/discharge and the inverter would have nothing to charge

I am quite familiar with how a BMS works my question was pertaining to a Sol-Ark specifically. I believe it is better to turn the charger or inverter off than to disconnect the power all together. But that is just my belief.

 

[Ampster]

I believe it is better to turn the charger or inverter off than to disconnect the power all together. But that is just my belief.

I agree and I think most hybrid inverter manufacturers would agree. Even better on the high end would be to have the hybrid terminate charging but keep inverting. On the low end turning of inverting and going back to grid would make sense.

 

[Haugen]

I am quite familiar with how a BMS works my question was pertaining to a Sol-Ark specifically. I believe it is better to turn the charger or inverter off than to disconnect the power all together. But that is just my belief.

The way my installer explained it to me, the SolArk will do some charging and discharging of the batteries to identify the capacity that is attached to the system.

In my head, it sounds like it will do something similar to a BMS and count amp hours. From there, you can program it to use the battery power as you desire.

In a month or so, I'll be able to give you a better idea of what happens.

 

[Craig]

The way my installer explained it to me, the SolArk will do some charging and discharging of the batteries to identify the capacity that is attached to the system.

In my head, it sounds like it will do something similar to a BMS and count amp hours. From there, you can program it to use the battery power as you desire.

In a month or so, I'll be able to give you a better idea of what happens.

As usual I am not explaining myself well. For my purposes battery capacity and state of charge is a complete non issue. What is important to me is that the charger is turned off if any 1 cell gets too high. I also do not want to disconnect the inverter if this happens. I also dont want to run high current through the BMS so I am hoping at some point the Inverter/charger companies figure out a generic way for an external BMS, that knows the actual battery health at the cell level, to controll charge/discharge if and only when necessary if a cell becomes out of balance.

 

[Ampster]

I also dont want to run high current through the BMS so I am hoping at some point the Inverter/charger companies figure out a generic way for an external BMS, that knows the actual battery health at the cell level, to controll charge/discharge if and only when necessary if a cell becomes out of balance.

The hybrid inverter market needs to catch up with what the EV conversion community has had for several years. I have an Orion BMS that can talk to a TMS EV charger and cut chqrging current when one cell gets near HVD. That charger can take up to four profiles. The ones that would be useful might be the following:
-Everday charge to 80% then Float for rest of solar day.
-Balancing charge to 95 to 100% and low Amperage CV stage to allow BMS to balance the pack.
-Any other algorithm like for a Ev where you would charge fast to 100% before a journey

 

[Roqm]

If there is communication the solark will actually reduce charge and just trickle, it wont stop charging completely unless there is nothing to charge or a fault but you can change this to stop charging at a particular voltage as well....one day we will have everything talking via a standardized communication protocol....hopfully

I am quite familiar with how a BMS works my question was pertaining to a Sol-Ark specifically. I believe it is better to turn the charger or inverter off than to disconnect the power all together. But that is just my belief.

 

[Ampster]

If there is communication the solark will actually reduce charge and just trickle, it wont stop charging completely unless there is nothing to charge or a fault but you can change this to stop charging at a particular voltage as well.

What kind of communication are you speculating about? If there is a fault on the BMS what is the process to stop charging or lower voltage to accomplish a stop charging event.

...one day we will have everything talking via a standardized communication protocol....hopfully

Hopefully, some day. It exists in the DIY EV space. I don't know why it has not arrived yet in the storage market.

 

[Haugen]

Before too long, CAN will be as common for a controller bus as Ethernet is for LAN. A standard will emerge that IEEE or some other body recommends and we will all adapt. Every automotive company can't continue to develop their own special bus and devices to play on it. It's too cost prohibitive.
Does anyone remember the battle between USB and FireWire? Same concept. We are just early adopters helping forge the way. ?