SSR testing

[onemorebattery]

@onemorebattery - I believe the TE Contactor that you identified is also used by the REC bms system, a quality product.
Do you have yours setup as a common port, single contactor today?

Btw - nice setup, seems like a winner. Wouldn’t mind a picture to get an idea on you enclosure if your using one.
Thanks

My setup is common charge/discharge and the module is wired logical AND to work with a single contactor. If either IN1 or IN2 goes low the contactor opens.

My relay module is just hanging unmounted right now. I mount lots of stuff on a control panel, which is a too fancy way of saying that I did this:

I bought these clipboards (way cheaper than buying same sized poly sheets) and standoffs.

Amazon.com : Officemate OIC Recycled Landscape Plastic Clipboard, Black (83050) : Office Products

Amazon.com : Officemate OIC Recycled Landscape Plastic Clipboard, Black (83050) : Office Products

www.amazon.com

LuckIn 8-Pack Sign Standoff Screws 1/2 x 4 inch, Acrylic Standoff Mounting Hardware, Stainless Steel Standoffs for Glass Panel, Plexiglass Picture: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

LuckIn 8-Pack Sign Standoff Screws 1/2 x 4 inch, Acrylic Standoff Mounting Hardware, Stainless Steel Standoffs for Glass Panel, Plexiglass Picture: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

www.amazon.com

I drilled off the clips (very soft rivets) and use the boards with the standoffs to cover my busses/wires and to mount my switches and instrument displays, mostly an assortment of cheap DROK stuff.

 

[solardad]

Some great finds to DIY a solution. Thanks

 

[Pacer]

@onemorebattery dude we may need to see a pic of this setup! I love the ingenuity and craftiness. You’ve shared a ton of ideas and are inspiring a lot of good brainstorming for my build.

 

[grizzzman]

So far the best combination I've found for a Chargery relay setup is these two gismos. Everything you need to run one contactor for common port (by wiring the relay controller NO contacts in series to one relay) or two contactors. Plus you get an extra controller for cooling fans or whatever. Lowest operating current and the coolest running of everything I have tested. Probably my final setup.

Amazon.com: HiLetgo 2pcs DC 12V 2 Channel Relay Module with Isolated Optocoupler High and Low Level H/L Level Trigger Module Triggered by DC 12V: Office Products

Buy HiLetgo 2pcs DC 12V 2 Channel Relay Module with Isolated Optocoupler High and Low Level H/L Level Trigger Module Triggered by DC 12V: Relays - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com

TE Connectivity Kilovac EV200AAANA Contactor 500A 12~24VDC Coil USA Shipper. | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for TE Connectivity Kilovac EV200AAANA Contactor 500A 12~24VDC Coil USA Shipper. at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

I bought two of the contactors and they looked new.

I wired the Chargery relay wires to the high triggers and common and brought 12 v in from my stepdown to power the controller and the contactor coil.

Is your LFP pac 12 volt?

 

[Craig]

I'm not understanding why you need the relay modules. Instead of hooking straight to kilovacs

 

[onemorebattery]

Is your LFP pac 12 volt?

24 volts.

I'm not understanding why you need the relay modules. Instead of hooking straight to kilovacs

In some cases current energizing two contactors causes the Chargery to reboot.

Source for Relays for BMS8T

These are optional because they may not be needed with some equipment. Also different size relays are required with different equipment. If you can use a relay as a remote inverter on off switch then you only need a very small SSR for example Craig- do you mind if I send you a PM with my...

diysolarforum.com

For all cases the relay module reduces the current of the Chargery relay drivers, which is limited, to almost nothing.

Since the module does the switching logic for both Chargery relay outputs common charge/discharge setups can use just one contactor for both charge/discharge and temperature protection cases.

 

[danphillips]

What about using a Controllable Motorized Circuit Breaker or a Smart Circuit breaker connected to the BMS or other monitoring device? No load is required to maintain contact. I just did some searching and thought this might be a solution.

 

[Steve_S]

I guess I could cobble together a schematic. Here's the stepdown that I use.

Amazon.com

Edit: Diagram for common port single relay

View attachment 12677

For two contactors run 12v+ through NO1/COM1 and NO2/COM2 separately to each coil+.

The parts:

Amazon.com: HiLetgo 2pcs DC 12V 2 Channel Relay Module with Isolated Optocoupler High and Low Level H/L Level Trigger Module Triggered by DC 12V: Office Products

Buy HiLetgo 2pcs DC 12V 2 Channel Relay Module with Isolated Optocoupler High and Low Level H/L Level Trigger Module Triggered by DC 12V: Relays - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com

TE Connectivity Kilovac EV200AAANA Contactor 500A 12~24VDC Coil USA Shipper. | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for TE Connectivity Kilovac EV200AAANA Contactor 500A 12~24VDC Coil USA Shipper. at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

I like your solution, this is a nice clean simplified setup that for a COMMON PORT configuration seems the most logical & rational and certainly an effective one. The best part is the actual contactor can e an SSR or other type of contactor and only needing the one. Additionally, this could be employed with the Delay Board as well if someone needs it.

Unfortunately, neither Amazon or Ebay Canada or US have stock or can deliver these particular ones.
I found similar ones @ QKits which may work. I sent an email to sales/tech for the data/spec sheets on these as the info on the website says too little. Let me know what your opinion is on these, if they send me data/spec sheets I will post them.

https://store.qkits.com/relay-cards/2-channel-optically-isolated-relay-card-12vdc.html

and

2 channel relay board 12 volt QKits Electronics Store Kingston Ontario Canada

12 volt relay board with 2 optically isolated channels

store.qkits.com

EDIT: Just got the diagram link to for OPTO ISOLATED RELAY CARD

Opto isolated Relay card information

Notes on the optically isolated relay cards.

store.qkits.com

This one https://store.qkits.com/relay-cards/2-channel-optically-isolated-relay-card-12vdc.html
has a set of jumpers that allows you to set a Active Low or and Active High to turn the relay on.

Any thoughts or opinion on this @onemorebattery ?
Feedback appreciated.

 

[Craig]

24 volts.



In some cases current energizing two contactors causes the Chargery to reboot.

Source for Relays for BMS8T

These are optional because they may not be needed with some equipment. Also different size relays are required with different equipment. If you can use a relay as a remote inverter on off switch then you only need a very small SSR for example Craig- do you mind if I send you a PM with my...

diysolarforum.com

For all cases the relay module reduces the current of the Chargery relay drivers, which is limited, to almost nothing.

Since the module does the switching logic for both Chargery relay outputs common charge/discharge setups can use just one contactor for both charge/discharge and temperature protection cases.

After I posted and was driving all night I realized you could use this method to use both Chargery outputs to controll one relay as well with this method. Great Idea!

 

[bdbugbee]

I guess I could cobble together a schematic. Here's the stepdown that I use.

Amazon.com

Edit: Diagram for common port single relay

View attachment 12677

For two contactors run 12v+ through NO1/COM1 and NO2/COM2 separately to each coil+.

The parts:

Amazon.com: HiLetgo 2pcs DC 12V 2 Channel Relay Module with Isolated Optocoupler High and Low Level H/L Level Trigger Module Triggered by DC 12V: Office Products

Buy HiLetgo 2pcs DC 12V 2 Channel Relay Module with Isolated Optocoupler High and Low Level H/L Level Trigger Module Triggered by DC 12V: Relays - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com

TE Connectivity Kilovac EV200AAANA Contactor 500A 12~24VDC Coil USA Shipper. | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for TE Connectivity Kilovac EV200AAANA Contactor 500A 12~24VDC Coil USA Shipper. at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

Nice setup. What is the wattage or current of the TE Connectivity Connector coil when energized at 12V?

 

[bdbugbee]

This is slight side track, but related:

Last night, I took in Will's Build with Victron Smart BatteryProtect - 220AMP - 6-35 VDC ( a second time/ flipping through Youtube options).

Amazon.com

I appreciated the lesson about charging up capaictors in equipment before hooking up main battery cables. That Victron Smart BatteryProtect kind of looks like another SSR Relay option, while some Amazon Q & As claims said it could be destroyed by an inverter or by running both draw and charge direction currents through it (not sure why, or if that is correct info.).

Trying to figure out how to best use a SSR Relay with a Chargery BMS8T for my LV2424 All In (s) to protect a 24v * 280 Ah LiFePO4 set: While that clip shows Will wiring that Battery Protect unit between just the Battery and Inverter draw; I registered Will saying disconnecting a MPPT solar charger from a battery circuit while charging could possible damage MPPT solar charger equipment. In considering my particular relay options for a LV2424 All In One (MPP brand name) that has only one set of battery cables to and from the battery for both solar charging in and inverter draw out, plus the limitation of only one off & on switch for the whole unit/ and no separate inverter switch (like that other series All In One unit Will wire an OcciCoupler SSR relay to for turning off the Inverter; ... This New Idea popped up for me:

Why not turn off my Inverter by turning off the 25 Amp AC Out with an AC Relay between my All In One output to the AC out Circuit Breaker Box I will be connecting to. That would accomplish the same as turning off the Inverter unless their was some oddball extreme inverter malfunction.

My thinking is: The BMS is a back up battery protector; proper configuration within my All In One is my main battery protector; my biggest battery danger is letting one cell get too low; I am not concerned about charging in a freeze where I live, especially while storing batteries inside an insulated building; and while I would also like to turn off solar charging when any battery was too hot, that might not be a concern.

If anyone has any pros or cons type feedback, or a better thread suggestion for me; I am in study mode. Thanks in Advance ;+)

Shutting off only the AC side would still leave the inverter DC input connected to the battery. If the BMS is shutting down for a low cell voltage situation, the battery would still see parasitic load by keeping the inverter energized and would slowly continue to drain.

 

[Craig]

Shutting off only the AC side would still leave the inverter DC input connected to the battery. If the BMS is shutting down for a low cell voltage situation, the battery would still see parasitic load by keeping the inverter energized and would slowly continue to drain.

This is true but you could set the LVD a little higher since in most cases the batteries should be charging within 24 hours.

 

[onemorebattery]

Nice setup. What is the wattage or current of the TE Connectivity Connector coil when energized at 12V?

The hold current is 157 mA.

 

[Capt Bill]

Shutting off only the AC side would still leave the inverter DC input connected to the battery. If the BMS is shutting down for a low cell voltage situation, the battery would still see parasitic load by keeping the inverter energized and would slowly continue to drain.

OK: With INVERTER AC out turned off via a BMS - relay on AC out side; I would be still be using up battery amp* volts of standby watts for the whole unit (something I don't want if BMS backup protection was trigger for low volts on one cell. I am not sure what else I might consider except a different BMS; which might be my best choice if I want automatic turn back on after fault goes away. I could wire a low volts triggered relay to turn off the whole All In One Unit, but with charging input also off; my system would require some kind of manual reset. While that is not end of world, I want a low volt trigger to leave solar charging On. I am still learning how all this works, while considering what my best relay choices and Chargery BMS8T configuration might be with only one set of battery cables for both charger Input and Inverter draw from battery.

With 2 relay controls on the Chargery BMS8T for charge and discharge, I was think I could use Will's Occicoupler SSR idea on the charge relay side to turn the whole unit OFF at Off/On switch for a high heat trigger. My hope is BMS would turn whole unit back on automatically when fault detect was past tense (pretty sure it works that way, but still learning the BMS specifics). When I network 2 MPP brand LV2424 units together for 240 ac split phase, I would like a BMS that would handle "up to" 160 Amp In to Battery, and "up to" a 250 Amp draw. If someone want to pitch me a better different BMS option that does not need relays, I would look at its' specs while waiting for my LiFePO4s to arrive. I am inviting brainstorm ideas to consider. Thanks :+)

 

[bdbugbee]

OK: With INVERTER AC out turned off via a BMS - relay on AC out side; I would be still be using up battery amp* volts of standby watts for the whole unit (something I don't want if BMS backup protection was trigger for low volts on one cell. I am not sure what else I might consider except a different BMS; which might be my best choice if I want automatic turn back on after fault goes away. I could wire a low volts triggered relay to turn off the whole All In One Unit, but with charging input also off; my system would require some kind of manual reset. While that is not end of world, I want a low volt trigger to leave solar charging On. I am still learning how all this works, while considering what my best relay choices and Chargery BMS8T configuration might be with only one set of battery cables for both charger Input and Inverter draw from battery.

With 2 relay controls on the Chargery BMS8T for charge and discharge, I was think I could use Will's Occicoupler SSR idea on the charge relay side to turn the whole unit OFF at Off/On switch for a high heat trigger. My hope is BMS would turn whole unit back on automatically when fault detect was past tense (pretty sure it works that way, but still learning the BMS specifics). When I network 2 MPP brand LV2424 units together for 240 ac split phase, I would like a BMS that would handle "up to" 160 Amp In to Battery, and "up to" a 250 Amp draw. If someone want to pitch me a better different BMS option that does not need relays, I would look at its' specs while waiting for my LiFePO4s to arrive. I am inviting brainstorm ideas to consider. Thanks :+)

Craig's comment is true that you could set the LVD voltage a little higher, then wait for the charge cycle to start a short time later. It's something to consider if your situation is such that charging the batteries will positively be available before the low voltage reaches a critical level, but I wouldn't leave it unattended for any long period of time like that.

 

[Capt Bill]

Craig's comment is true that you could set the LVD voltage a little higher, then wait for the charge cycle to start a short time later. It's something to consider if your situation is such that charging the batteries will positively be available before the low voltage reaches a critical level, but I wouldn't leave it unattended for any long period of time like that.

I like that idea, and actually was just thinking exactly that same way earlier today. I think that is way to go for a one cell too low in voltage trigger. /and my All In One unit will get a low volt config (for whole battery) that I will be depending on most; set above that BMS backup protection. Hope testing of that good looking SSR gives us a green light for winner (expecting it will). :+) Thanks

 

[Capt Bill]

So far the best combination I've found for a Chargery relay setup is these two gismos. Everything you need to run one contactor for common port (by wiring the relay controller NO contacts in series to one relay) or two contactors. Plus you get an extra controller for cooling fans or whatever. Lowest operating current and the coolest running of everything I have tested. Probably my final setup.

Amazon.com: HiLetgo 2pcs DC 12V 2 Channel Relay Module with Isolated Optocoupler High and Low Level H/L Level Trigger Module Triggered by DC 12V: Office Products

Buy HiLetgo 2pcs DC 12V 2 Channel Relay Module with Isolated Optocoupler High and Low Level H/L Level Trigger Module Triggered by DC 12V: Relays - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com

TE Connectivity Kilovac EV200AAANA Contactor 500A 12~24VDC Coil USA Shipper. | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for TE Connectivity Kilovac EV200AAANA Contactor 500A 12~24VDC Coil USA Shipper. at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

I bought two of the contactors and they looked new.

I wired the Chargery relay wires to the high triggers and common and brought 12 v in from my stepdown to power the controller and the contactor coil.

RE: 500 amp DC Relay. Nice looking lower cost deal and option. I saw the new ones too. I wonder what the amp draw is on trigger coil is for the 500 amp rated Relay. Looked for it in eBay description, but nothing found. If you test amp draw of coil/ watts used when contacts are closed ... Interested here, while most likely going the SSR way.

 

[Pacer]

RE: 500 amp DC Relay. Nice looking lower cost deal and option. I saw the new ones too. I wonder what the amp draw is on trigger coil is for the 500 amp rated Relay. Looked for it in eBay description, but nothing found. If you test amp draw of coil/ watts used when contacts are closed ... Interested here, while most likely going the SSR way.

Bill- If I do (with Craig’s help) sort out a way to use SSR for Inverter remote switch, I’d prefer that method. In the meantime, I am designing around using one of the TE relays with the 12v relay board linked a few posts back. I can’t find the exact post but I recall feedback that the TE relay hardly uses any power and does not get hot in use.

Seems like either make for a solid, low-draw setup!

 

[Capt Bill]

Bill- If I do (with Craig’s help) sort out a way to use SSR for Inverter remote switch, I’d prefer that method. In the meantime, I am designing around using one of the TE relays with the 12v relay board linked a few posts back. I can’t find the exact post but I recall feedback that the TE relay hardly uses any power and does not get hot in use.

Seems like either make for a solid, low-draw setup!

Thanks for brainstorming w me. I did look at those relay and made a note of em. I bet I could figure a way to open my MPP brand LV2424; and find the wire or circuit path powering the inverter, and put a SRR switch there inside that All In One unit. ... I just kind of rather not do somethng that would mean no more warranty from the USA supplier on eBay. I might bring em in on the question: Hey Ian at MPP: ... I got a DIY LiFePO4 build coming up, and hooking up my own BMS; How can I connect the BMS to let it turn off the Inverter only (for when l I have a low cell voltage trigger? I doubt MPP has any good answer for me, but If I get one, I'll share it.

 

[Capt Bill]

I decided I am most likely hooking up the Chargery BMS8T discharge relay out connect to a SSR on the AC out side from my All In One(s) ... to turn off (major majority of) Inverter draw on battery bank when/if a low cell voltage trigger is indicated. I am taking on testing two of these inexpensive SSR relays w heat sinks rated at 60 Amps for AC / $18 each (ordered two).
SSR-60DA 60A 3-32 VDC / 24-480 VAC + Heat Sink (inexpensive+ looks worth the time to me:

Baomain SSR-60DA 60A Solid State Relay Module 3-32VDC / 24-480VAC + Heat Sink: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

Baomain SSR-60DA 60A Solid State Relay Module 3-32VDC / 24-480VAC + Heat Sink: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

www.amazon.com

I will be running 120 vac @ up to 25 amp max through em to each leg of my 240 vac split phase circuit breaker box. I was encouraged by one reviewer mentioning; "Works well with my 40amp water heater". It will likely take me awhile to post back on this specific test. I got em ordered to add to my build supplies, so the test is lined up.

 

[Yeti]

Thanks for brainstorming w me. I did look at those relay and made a note of em. I bet I could figure a way to open my MPP brand LV2424; and find the wire or circuit path powering the inverter, and put a SRR switch there inside that All In One unit. ... I just kind of rather not do somethng that would mean no more warranty from the USA supplier on eBay. I might bring em in on the question: Hey Ian at MPP: ... I got a DIY LiFePO4 build coming up, and hooking up my own BMS; How can I connect the BMS to let it turn off the Inverter only (for when l I have a low cell voltage trigger? I doubt MPP has any good answer for me, but If I get one, I'll share it.

Hey Bill, doesnt that LV2424 have a manual toggle switch for the inverter? I'll bet that switch is already connected to a relay.

 

[Steve_S]

A Bad News UPDATE ?

I received the two 500A Big Lug SSRS - They are UNI-Directional ! (aka polarised).
The two Dongya DH200H Relays turned out to be Uni-Directional and NON-Energy Savers. They should have been the DH200A series which are Energy Saver's but they are not Bi-Directional. either, I am now waiting on an update from them as to which model is Bi-Directional.
The Uni-Directional Relay / Contactors are NO use for a Common Port Configuration.

I wrote up a two page document with images of typical configurations and methods used for Energy Storage Systems with Relays, additionally, I added further information in regards to possibly getting a Relay with a 2 channel opto-coupler type of interface. The ability to use ONE Relay / Contactor but accept two Relay Signals and disconnect if either drops could solve many an issue for a number of folks. That info has now been sent to the two manufacturers and hopefully, I will hear back soon. So now I have a pile of relays at serious expense (and wasted time waiting for them) and no further ahead....

Never know, maybe the companies can come up with something 'interesting' at a reasonable price point.

 

[cass3825]

A Bad News UPDATE ?

I received the two 500A Big Lug SSRS - They are UNI-Directional ! (aka polarised).

Steve, to clarify, do they conduct when connected in reverse, even when "coil" is de-energized, or are they open when connected in reverse, even when "coil" is energized?

 

[onemorebattery]

RE: 500 amp DC Relay. Nice looking lower cost deal and option. I saw the new ones too. I wonder what the amp draw is on trigger coil is for the 500 amp rated Relay. Looked for it in eBay description, but nothing found. If you test amp draw of coil/ watts used when contacts are closed ... Interested here, while most likely going the SSR way.

I don't see the appeal of SSR. The forward voltage drop and heat loss is completely disqualifying for solar applications AFAIC.

"...typical 1.2 volt on-state drop...1 watt per ampere..."

https://www.galco.com/techdoc/crdm/d4840_crdmh1.pdf

"An SSR with very high current capabilities may need to dissipate as much as 210 watts. "

https://www.teledynerelays.com/Datasheets%20MSSR/Heat%20Sink%20SSR.pdf

Compared to a contactor/module design that draws 2.6 watts with little or no voltage drop? SSR is a no for me, dawg.

 

[Steve_S]

The SSR will only pass the DC in one direction when energised. In through the #1 Post and out through the #2 Post. If the Relay is energized and Voltage goes into Post 2 you cook the relay. These CANNOT be used in a Common Port Configuration. The CAN be used with a Separate Port configuration but that eliminates the use of Inverter/Chargers if you intend to ever use the charging facility of a Combo Inverter/Charger (which are the most common ones used).

I have been chatting with Allen (the manufacturer rep) for the past 3 hours already. (it is why I get up at 03:00 so I have a window to talk with the folks in China). These 500A & 1000A SSR's came about as a result of Craig & I working wit this manufacturer. I dunno about Craig, but I've dropped a few hundred (plus S&H, Duties & Taxes) on several relays to test and evaluate and am no further ahead... partly my fault for not being as clear as I should have been, although I was pretty clear but I guess not for the translators.

$250 for one pair of relays you can't use REALLY BITES ! but then add in the other variants I got and the numbers start to add up & pile ... Enough that Missus is running up the warning flag on me... (an EXTREMELY RARE Occurrence ! Only happened once before in 10 years ! OKAY !!)

On another "Prong of Attack" I'm exchanging more information with Jason @ Chargery and we may have a hybrid solution / workaround that is practical and very cost effective IF it works. I won't elaborate at this time as it is early days and has to travel down the thinker & tinker lines beforehand.

Have to resolve this soonest as I have packs to go online and having to wait on this now is very BAD timing. I had to have this stuff done by the time everything thawed out as my priorities cannot be shifted, they are season dependent. So all this solar / battery / relay stuff has to take the backseat and dealt with when the ride stops (during bad weather for internal works).