Terrible Signature Solar / EG4 18Kpv Experience - Returning and Replaced with Sol-Ark 15k

[Browse]

Wow...what a long thread.

My one observation after reading about the device/support issues aligns with this comment by solardad:

@Will Prowse @Watts Happening read a good portion of the thread and did not see one mention of potentially defective unit and an offer from SS to replace. True.. Watts?

For reference Sol-Ark offered to replace my 3 year old 12k after a fatal issue with just one phone call. No 2nd or 3rd tier support calls that require weeks on end scheduling and then a week or two of ghosting like I experienced last summer trying to commission a DOA inverter supplied by SS.

It seems that one of the root causes of the delayed and/or unimpressive customer service experience may be the procedural difficulty in returning/replacing a product. I have read time and time again how many pictures, videos, tests, etc. SS wants a customer to do to "validate" the need for a return. Looking at the responses and forum comments from tech support, they are spending lots of time running around trying to diagnose mysterious issues in the field and creating correspondence...likely contributing to their poor service response time to other customers. How much technician time and lost sales does this add up to as opposed to simply taking the Sol-Ark approach to either fix it quickly or "just return it and we send you a replacement right now"? Maybe they are shooting themselves in the foot by taking this "customer must be wrong" approach.

How much time and energy was wasted on this single product manufacturing/software/firmware issue so far amongst all the participants? How many other customers are waiting longer in the queue as a result?

 

[Markus_EG4]

Wow...what a long thread.

My one observation after reading about the device/support issues aligns with this comment by solardad:


It seems that one of the root causes of the delayed and/or unimpressive customer service experience may be the procedural difficulty in returning/replacing a product. I have read time and time again how many pictures, videos, tests, etc. SS wants a customer to do to "validate" the need for a return. Looking at the responses and forum comments from tech support, they are spending lots of time running around trying to diagnose mysterious issues in the field and creating correspondence...likely contributing to their poor service response time to other customers. How much technician time and lost sales does this add up to as opposed to simply taking the Sol-Ark approach to either fix it quickly or "just return it and we send you a replacement right now"? Maybe they are shooting themselves in the foot by taking this "customer must be wrong" approach.

How much time and energy was wasted on this single product manufacturing/software/firmware issue so far amongst all the participants? How many other customers are waiting longer in the queue as a result?

You are hitting it right on the nail. Since we support DIY customers you wouldn't believe how much of this is wired wrong or set up incorrectly. That takes time to work through especially over the phone and email. James wants everyone to have solar and he also wants us to teach customers How to install solar correctly. We have put a big effort into technical support. We are growing so fast and training new tech everyday. After you have a really good trained tech they most likely get moved up or somewhere else. So the training with new hires never stops. They call Queue is down to 7 min wait time now. That is a big improvement from what it used to be. It can always be better I know but I am very proud of how far we have come in such a short time.

 

[G00SE]

Many good responses in the past few pages.
SS isn’t perfect, but they do try their best. I know my fuse is short, I reply in jest life goes on. I can’t hold it against them if they knee jerk once in a while either.
I imagine the time spent remotely diagnosing/assisting is exhausting
I’ve been stuck in a “win” then “trenches” cycle at work. Maybe just projection by me but sure seems like SS may be encountering a bit of that too and I don’t wish that on anyone

 

[KITROBASKIN]

Having a company like Signature Solar responding to forum questions and complaints seems like a win for the consumer.

Telling Signature Solar they need to change their business model when they are plainly growing faster than they can hire quality help? Hmm…

Victron uses their dealers to interface with customers. Dealers use Victron protocol to diagnose consumer problems. In my case the dealer told Victron to send me another inverter. Victron did and we are humming along.

Someone does not like their business model can go elsewhere, seems like.

 

[1201]

You are hitting it right on the nail. Since we support DIY customers you wouldn't believe how much of this is wired wrong or set up incorrectly. That takes time to work through especially over the phone and email. James wants everyone to have solar and he also wants us to teach customers How to install solar correctly. We have put a big effort into technical support. We are growing so fast and training new tech everyday. After you have a really good trained tech they most likely get moved up or somewhere else. So the training with new hires never stops. They call Queue is down to 7 min wait time now. That is a big improvement from what it used to be. It can always be better I know but I am very proud of how far we have come in such a short time.

So make an educational series. Do you know how hard it is to find the information you need? You have to shift through thousands of videos of people rambling and waving the camera back and forth for 30 minutes. It's extremely frustrating and time wasting

Lesson one. How to connect your battery to the inverter

Lesson two: connect pv

Etc

The company I work for has an educational website to teach people about our products. We have webinars that people can sign up for to learn about how we can help them. And they are usually well attended

 

[Markus_EG4]

So make an educational series. Do you know how hard it is to find the information you need? You have to shift through thousands of videos of people rambling and waving the camera back and forth for 30 minutes. It's extremely frustrating and time wasting

Lesson one. How to connect your battery to the inverter

Lesson two: connect pv

Etc

The company I work for has an educational website to teach people about our products. We have webinars that people can sign up for to learn about how we can help them. And they are usually well attended

We make YouTube videos. But making a video and telling someone how to connect power is a touchy subject. That could turn into a legal thing if someone gets hurt or worse. We want to start showing how to do this kind of stuff but it has to be done right.

 

[Mattb4]

You are hitting it right on the nail. Since we support DIY customers you wouldn't believe how much of this is wired wrong or set up incorrectly. That takes time to work through especially over the phone and email. James wants everyone to have solar and he also wants us to teach customers How to install solar correctly. ...

Anyone that participates in this Forum beyond asking for help, or showing off their latest PV install, has zero problems believing how many issues are that of incorrect install or operation. Couple that with communication difficulties, knowledge issues, attitude clashes and it does indeed take time to work through and sometimes it can't.

I am not certain but I think the philosophy of teaching the customer during a service call might be an error. It is one thing to do it in a informal internet help Forum but another when it is a merchant/customer relationship. Establishing whether a product needs service or replacement should be the thrust.

 

[Browse]

I used the contact form on the SS site last week requesting some technical info on the 1 AWG 84" battery to inverter wires I purchased back in December. I haven't received a response yet. The wire is branded Infinitiflex, 600V 105C. I searched on line but couldn't find a data sheet indicating max current in open air. I'm assuming it is similar to this, but can't be sure:

https://www.directwire.com/wp-conte...lex-Lead-Wire-Spec-Sheet-R07-22-v2.pdf?x92160

You can see my post earlier this week with some pictures:
https://diysolarforum.com/threads/battery-to-inverter-wire-gauge-for-eg4-kit.67026/#post-843876

Be nice if someone could respond with the info. Thanks!

 

[Quattrohead]

It says 220A, what is the question ???

 

[Nan_wpg]

@Watts Happening Probably one of the best writeups I have seen on this forum for 4 years ...

We have purchased - and we have sent back - and they have fixed -- and we are happy with several items from Signature Solar. The last thing we had issues with was their 5KW Chargeverter - it would just do strange things at strange times or not power up fully and to Signature Solar's credit - they did get us a new one out here and it has worked flawlessly. We purchased (4) of them total - one was bad - they fixed it ...

BUT - getting to the point of them finally answering the phone - or email - was very painful. My favourite is when the "assistant" says that if you would like a call back please leave your # and you won't lose your place in line -- I think to date we are still waiting for half a dozen call backs -- LOL - either that or the line is actually THAT long ....

I have nothing to base this on - just my personal thoughts - but they seem to be the standard "rebranding" company that we have seen pop up for the last several years. They find a good manufacturer in China to make a system for them and the Chinese make it almost ready (ALMOST) for "prime time" but at a good price and everyone just wets their panties because "it has too be good - because they sell allot of them at a very low price!!" .. which is a "groupthink" concept i never actually ever understood.

It was obvious you were not looking for a discount. You just had spent so much time and energy on this system already that if there was a fix - and if they could do it - then it was a win-win for everyone ... but they couldn't. And they probably couldn't because probably the Chinese manufacturer (who is 12 hours ahead of them) was either not understanding the issue or simply had no software/firmware wrote for what you are going through.

That's what separates the Chinese companies mostly from the American. The Chinese are huge on "won and done" -- they make it - you buy it - AND ... DONE!! ... They are also very cautious of providing to much of their real code to people like SS becuase they see SS as a wholesaler of THEIR product and not an integral "design" teammate. Also that "Won and Done" issue is obvious in the manuals they provide. Only reason that the manuals are the way they are is simply because the Chinese project manager does not want to explain to his boss why they spent $100 extra dollars getting the manual "English-fied" when the manual they have that was ran through Google Translate is good enough -- and FREE ...

And of course that puts SS in a tight spot because obviously they love it when 95% of their stuff works flawlessly - and you are asking it to do what it is designed to do -- but the moment you have issues -- then THEY have to defend an inferior design they were not part of or try to figure out how to get the guys across the pond to make changes. (And trust me - the guys across the pond are barely paid anything - and most Chinese companies - once they sell a product and a software - considers that DONE with )

SO we also was looking at the same EG4 you had - and we read all the same comments on the web that you read - and we decided that we simply could not take a chance with slow - VERY SLOW customer service AND that if we are paying XXX amount that we should not be the ginuea pigs for this ... also - 99% of our equipment goes out into the South Texas heat/cold - crammed into a server cabinet - and is never touched again - but has to work 101% of the time flawlessly ...

and thats why this time we have gone back to Midnite Solar products ... We will be picking up (4) of the Midnite Solar MNBCLNA Barcelona Charge Controller 600VDC 200A and giving them a shot ... we have also switched over to the ""EEL V3 48V 16S Server Rack Battery DIY Unit 280 BOX 51.2V Stackable Type with Active Balancer"" batteries. We are getting (8) of those batteries to test. We went with both because of their great customer service and willingness to pick up the phone - PLUS MIDNITE is 100% made in the US - and when you call they answer - and I know my boss spent about an hour on the phone with their technicians - the folks that actually is writing the code - to go over everything we needed to do and make sure that it does it ... YES the new BARCELONA is probably fresher and less tested than I like - but we truly believe they can fix most issues ..

PLUS - and this is a BIG plus -- they make and engineer and design and test all of their own stuff here in the States-- so when you talk to an engineer he knows 100% what can and can't be done -- and in fact - can actually update the firmware and send you a new patch IF you are having any issues - and can do that without having to call 8000 miles away ...

Again - nothing wrong with Signature Solar way of doing business - for 99% of the people they get what they pay for at a excellent price - quick delivery - and it does what it needs to do -- its the remaining 1% that causes them to often have the DEER IN THE HEADLIGHT response ...

anyway - excellent write up ,.... and you done great sharing this ....

Quality, service, price. Pick 2.

 

[Browse]

It says 220A, what is the question ???

Different wire...but the closest I could find. It's a guess.

 

[Madco]

Is this for a EG4-6500? If so, the manual says 2/0. Use that and you won't be sorry or risk a fire in that section of the wiring. I know someone is going to chime in about voltage drop and total length, but nothing in the NEC allows for smaller wire than that dictated in the ampacity tables. You can go larger but not smaller because of length.

Be careful with the free air tables. I've never seen a truly free air installation with theae systems!

I use 2/0 welding cable for the high current DC side of things. Only issue is most of it isn't stamped with a insulation type. Might have an inspection problem if you're subject to inspection.

All this assumes this is not a mobile installation.

 

[1201]

Quality, service, price. Pick 2.

Two out of three would be good. It's looking like it's one out of three nowadays- price

 

[Nan_wpg]

Two out of three would be good. It's looking like it's one out of three nowadays- price

Fair enough, lol.

 

[Shawn Hayes]

It may be inappropriate to ask in this thread… but this thread does mention Sol-Ark 15K in the title.
So, @Will Prowse did a video in August of ‘22 on the S/A 15K. Telling features, opening it up etc… At the 4:33-ish mark saying, in the near future, he will be taking this inverter to back up an entire home. I think saying a second video would be coming….
So, just curious when or if we’ll ever get the follow up S/A 15K video? As best I can tell, this is the only video were you featured any Sol-Ark products?
At this point there’s 3 videos on the 18K PV so far, Today, a new video featuring an impressive new PowerPro battery to go with the 18K PV was posted.
Therefore, I (maybe others) would like to know @Will Prowse when/if the follow up video with the S/A 15K is coming? Or updates on what happened?

 

[Gavin Stone]

It may be inappropriate to ask in this thread… but this thread does mention Sol-Ark 15K in the title.
So, @Will Prowse did a video in August of ‘22 on the S/A 15K. Telling features, opening it up etc… At the 4:33-ish mark saying, in the near future, he will be taking this inverter to back up an entire home. I think saying a second video would be coming….
So, just curious when or if we’ll ever get the follow up S/A 15K video? As best I can tell, this is the only video were you featured any Sol-Ark products?
At this point there’s 3 videos on the 18K PV so far, Today, a new video featuring an impressive new PowerPro battery to go with the 18K PV was posted.
Therefore, I (maybe others) would like to know @Will Prowse when/if the follow up video with the S/A 15K is coming? Or updates on what happened?

I’m pretty sure it was his friend that was installing the solark. And he was going to do some videos as he helped. ??‍

 

[Will Prowse]

It may be inappropriate to ask in this thread… but this thread does mention Sol-Ark 15K in the title.
So, @Will Prowse did a video in August of ‘22 on the S/A 15K. Telling features, opening it up etc… At the 4:33-ish mark saying, in the near future, he will be taking this inverter to back up an entire home. I think saying a second video would be coming….
So, just curious when or if we’ll ever get the follow up S/A 15K video? As best I can tell, this is the only video were you featured any Sol-Ark products?
At this point there’s 3 videos on the 18K PV so far, Today, a new video featuring an impressive new PowerPro battery to go with the 18K PV was posted.
Therefore, I (maybe others) would like to know @Will Prowse when/if the follow up video with the S/A 15K is coming? Or updates on what happened?

My friend who is @HighTechLab just installed it actually. He has a lot of experience with sol ark for some years now. I need to run across town with my camera. I haven't had a single minute to myself in the last few days, or I am on camera for hours. But I need to head over there.

I am pretty dang surprised sol ark didn't send one out after all these years. Sounds entitled, obviously, but every single company sends me out 3X of every new product they have. I have piles of products. I just give them all away to forum members at this point.

I really do not see any benefit of the sol ark over 18K unless I am a beginner and need setup help. And I have never had a bias toward either. I am pretty ignorant to the workings of the sol ark. I make more money selling sol arks. But 18K packages with server racks are the best bang for your buck.

I link to all products too, so I don't care what my viewers buy. It is up to them. I just aim to make useful information to help others know what is out there, and hopefully they use my links so I can pay myself.

But I still do get complaints about sol ark from people. I even had a few people say that their customer support is awful.

 

[Will Prowse]

It may be inappropriate to ask in this thread… but this thread does mention Sol-Ark 15K in the title.
So, @Will Prowse did a video in August of ‘22 on the S/A 15K. Telling features, opening it up etc… At the 4:33-ish mark saying, in the near future, he will be taking this inverter to back up an entire home. I think saying a second video would be coming….
So, just curious when or if we’ll ever get the follow up S/A 15K video? As best I can tell, this is the only video were you featured any Sol-Ark products?
At this point there’s 3 videos on the 18K PV so far, Today, a new video featuring an impressive new PowerPro battery to go with the 18K PV was posted.
Therefore, I (maybe others) would like to know @Will Prowse when/if the follow up video with the S/A 15K is coming? Or updates on what happened?

I did talk to sol ark engineering team on a conference call some years ago. I told them I didn't think it looks that cool compared to tesla powerwall. And that the menus look ancient. They laughed and appreciated the feedback. I am willing to try one out, but I don't want to spend that much money given the features I would buy another 18K instead. I might need to buy another here soon for my new property.

 

[Will Prowse]

I’m pretty sure it was his friend that was installing the solark. And he was going to do some videos as he helped. ??‍

Yes it was my friend dexter. I still wish sol ark would send out a unit and make me realize benefits over the 18K. Considering how many they had at ces and other conferences, it is pretty strange they didn't send one out. Ahh well

 

[G00SE]

I did talk to sol ark engineering team on a conference call some years ago. I told them I didn't think it looks that cool compared to tesla powerwall. And that the menus look ancient. They laughed and appreciated the feedback. I am willing to try one out, but I don't want to spend that much money given the features I would buy another 18K instead. I might need to buy another here soon for my new property.

Is the software difference significant? That’s how I read this but wanted to clarify.
Separately, for someone not grid tied, with a similar AC output do you find the 18kpv still a significant upgrade to twin 6500ex?