The vaccinated are more likely to catch Covid

[Shale MacGregor]

But if you were walking around unrestrained, all the women around you would get nothing done.....

Only because they would be laughing too hard

 

[Freep]

Seriously?

"When a group of people come together with the intention of healing another—and they know how to get beyond themselves, connect to the quantum field, open their hearts, and demonstrate brain and heart coherence—we now know that they can heal one another.
......
As a consequence, our advanced students have organized healing groups all over the world. They have evolved their experience of in-person Coherence Healing™ to healing others remotely. "

Dr. Joe Dispenza is not only a chiropractor(not a real doctor) he is listed at #627 on the Encyclopedia of American Loons

#627: Joseph "Joe" Dispenza

Joseph Dispenza is an author of several fluffy New-Age snowflake bullshit self-help books, and is particularly notable ...

americanloons.blogspot.com

If you enjoy torturing yourself with fluffy fogbanks of pink-tinged drivel, you may check out his DVD series “Your Immortal Brain,” which allegedly “looks at the ways in which the human brain can be used to create reality through the mastery of thought” – which does not mean anything (alludes to the Secret), but that doesn’t seem to matter much to Dispenza; like quantum physics linguistic meaning appears to be just whatever Dispenza fancies it to be at any given moment.
Diagnosis: Pretentious, delusional puddinghead who is apparently convinced that what he thinks becomes reality in virtue of him thinking it. Otherwise Dispenza doesn’t care too much about reality.

 

[time2roll]

Diagnosis: Pretentious, delusional puddinghead who is apparently convinced that what he thinks becomes reality in virtue of him thinking it. Otherwise Dispenza doesn’t care too much about reality.

Dang this seems to be going mainstream in the areas of politics and medical care.

 

[Freep]

Diagnosis: Pretentious, delusional puddinghead who is apparently convinced that what he thinks becomes reality in virtue of him thinking it. Otherwise Dispenza doesn’t care too much about reality.

Dang this seems to be going mainstream in the areas of politics and medical care.

I'm shocked at how many people get conned by these people. People don't seem to understand what a reliable source is. They can't change their opinion when new data appears and mainly believe what feels right or what their in-group is saying and then try to justify that belief with whatever they can find, even when it contradicts well established and reputable experts in their field.

Plus there are many people who are simply contrarian and oppositional, which is a sign of arrested development and immaturity.

 

[noenegdod]

Dr. Joe Dispenza is not only a chiropractor(not a real doctor) he is listed at #627 on the Encyclopedia of American Loons

#627: Joseph "Joe" Dispenza

Joseph Dispenza is an author of several fluffy New-Age snowflake bullshit self-help books, and is particularly notable ...

americanloons.blogspot.com

Do a bit more research with an open mind.

I'm shocked at how many people get conned by these people. People don't seem to understand what a reliable source is. They can't change their opinion when new data appears and mainly believe what feels right or what their in-group is saying and then try to justify that belief with whatever they can find, even when it contradicts well established and reputable experts in their field.

Plus there are many people who are simply contrarian and oppositional, which is a sign of arrested development and immaturity.

I wish there was some way for you to see how funny that is coming from you.

 

[noenegdod]

Seriously?

Yup.

Like everything, there is no question that if you go straight to the most "out there" stuff, you will probably walk away. If you approach it all with curiosity and an open mind and walk through the more basic and common place ideas such as placebo, you find that you just maybe there is more there than just American loon #627

 

[Bob B]

Some people will find it easy to believe this kind of thing .... and others will find it almost impossible. I'm afraid we will go completely off the deep end with this thread if we get too deep into this discussion.
Those who find it nearly impossible to believe are going to feel compelled to attack the "weirdo" who does.

I am in the group that finds this kind of thing believable .... and that is based on personal experience and scientifically verified outcomes.
I won't go into the details any further, but if anyone is really interested ..... shoot me a message.

 

[noenegdod]

Some people will find it easy to believe this kind of thing .... and others will find it almost impossible. I'm afraid we will go completely off the deep end with this thread if we get too deep into this discussion.
Those who find it nearly impossible to believe are going to feel compelled to attack the "weirdo" who does.

I am in the group that finds this kind of thing believable .... and that is based on personal experience and scientifically verified outcomes.
I won't go into the details any further, but if anyone is really interested ..... shoot me a message.

Ya, lets not go there in here. It was simply a reply to this:

Or were the symptoms manifested in their own mind?

 

[Hedges]

Kanzhongguo - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Vision Times is one of the news organizations that Falun Gong's founder Li Hongzhi refers to as "our media".[4] The newspaper's president is the spokesperson for the Falun Dafa Association in New York, and is chair of another Falun Gong group called Quit the CCP.[4] In 2021, The Atlantic called Vision Times a "doppelgänger site" of The Epoch Times.


It's a good idea to understand how to tell the difference between reputable and disreputable sources. You are citing a known propaganda mill.

Which I pointed out.
Following links beginning with that propaganda mill, I found and posted link to legitimate data:

Effectiveness of Covid-19 Vaccination Against Risk of Symptomatic Infection, Hospitalization, and Death Up to 9 Months: A Swedish Total-Population Cohort Study

Background: Whether vaccine effectiveness against Coronavirus disease 2019 (Covid-19) lasts longer than 6 months is unclear.<br><br>Methods: A retrospective coh

papers.ssrn.com

It has a tab to read full .pdf of the preprint.

 

[Shale MacGregor]

Yup.

Like everything, there is no question that if you go straight to the most "out there" stuff, you will probably walk away. If you approach it all with curiosity and an open mind and walk through the more basic and common place ideas such as placebo, you find that you just maybe there is more there than just American loon #627

There is a difference between someone putting ideas out that others will find useful in their life, and making claims like these. This gentleman could have some very good thoughts on meditation, introspection, relaxation, focus, etc, while also claiming unverifiable "miracles".

I don't have a problem with people believing things that they can't prove, but when they start to push them out there and give people false hope it becomes almost abusive.

If this gentleman really could form groups of people to reliably heal, it would be simple to test it. You would gather witnesses, and heal minor yet visible maladies such as small cuts, scrapes, etc. Then it would be repeated and measured, repeated and measured until it became accepted, then the mechanism would begin to be examined.

The reality is that everytime there are claims like this, whether it be mind over matter, prayer, or sundry other miraculous things, it always turns out to be outliers. Sometimes people get better, sometimes their bodies fight off or heal, if you pray for 1000 people with "incurable" cancer and 50 survive, was it the prayer, was it a misdiagnosis, was it a failed mutation within the cancer?

I will say one more time, he may have some good and useful thoughts on some things, but there are plenty of people with good intentions that have also led many down a bad path.

I consider myself open-minded but skeptical, meaning I want to examine and find proof, not "believe" without sufficient reason.

edit: I see later that bob said to take it to PM's and you agreed, I am fine with that if you'd rather.

 

[Freep]

For those of you who read books, I recommend the book "The Death of Expertise: The Campaign against Established Knowledge and Why it Matters" by Tom Nichols.

For those of you who don't read books, please start.

 

[Shale MacGregor]

For those of you who read books, I recommend the book "The Death of Expertise: The Campaign against Established Knowledge and Why it Matters" by Tom Nichols.

For those of you who don't read books, please start.

I find most of these mindsets embrace the apparent difficulty of proving a negative, but then refuse to accept that absence of evidence is sufficient, at any point in time as proof until otherwise demonstrated. Just like in many religions people simply see it as an unwillingness to believe, at not giving it a chance, at not accepting what has been offered.

Unfortunately, if the only way to obtain proof is to experience it yourself, and it requires absolute acceptance and belief beforehand, and it is not verifiable by an outside perspective or observer, then it is not going to be easy to convince people to try it, as this is a common thread in many many religions, followings, etc. Maybe out of the thousands of systems, religions, belief sets, this happens to be the one that truly has the secret... or more likely it is the same as the others and just false hope being peddled for $19.95, or 10%, or whatever the quantum field leads you to donate.

Again, there may be useful things in many beliefs, including major religions and minor ones, but the fact that some of the belief set is useful does not validate the whole of the work.

 

[noenegdod]

There is a difference between someone putting ideas out that others will find useful in their life, and making claims like these. This gentleman could have some very good thoughts on meditation, introspection, relaxation, focus, etc, while also claiming unverifiable "miracles".

I don't have a problem with people believing things that they can't prove, but when they start to push them out there and give people false hope it becomes almost abusive.

If this gentleman really could form groups of people to reliably heal, it would be simple to test it. You would gather witnesses, and heal minor yet visible maladies such as small cuts, scrapes, etc. Then it would be repeated and measured, repeated and measured until it became accepted, then the mechanism would begin to be examined.

The reality is that everytime there are claims like this, whether it be mind over matter, prayer, or sundry other miraculous things, it always turns out to be outliers. Sometimes people get better, sometimes their bodies fight off or heal, if you pray for 1000 people with "incurable" cancer and 50 survive, was it the prayer, was it a misdiagnosis, was it a failed mutation within the cancer?

I will say one more time, he may have some good and useful thoughts on some things, but there are plenty of people with good intentions that have also led many down a bad path.

I consider myself open-minded but skeptical, meaning I want to examine and find proof, not "believe" without sufficient reason.

edit: I see later that bob said to take it to PM's and you agreed, I am fine with that if you'd rather.

I agree 100% with everything you said. Full stop.

If you have not read or listened to the book, I would strongly encourage you to. The youtube link is free and you dont have to give him a penny to listen to it.

The reason I suggest this to you is because you seem to be grounded, reasonable and contemplative. You seem to be willing to have an open mind and make your own judgements as opposed to picking a few trusted sources and adopting everything they say as your own.

I think that if you listen to what he is saying you will realize that he is not selling snake oil. He fully admits he does not know or understand what is going on but is working towards an understanding of some crazy stuff he seems to witness at a much higher frequency than is occurring "in the wild".

Yes, desperate people go to him and pay him. No body seems to have a problem investing in Tesla to solve problems we do not have an answer to right now. The issue is that because what he is looking into and promoting is not tangible and is a skill that is dependent on the ability of a "student" to acquire the skill, some/many fail and critics immediately use those that fail to acquire the skill as proof he is a loon. When a drug addict fails to get clean we dont point the finger at the social worker, therapist, or anyone else involved in the recovery and blame them for the failure.

Ya, if we want to discuss this further we should stick to PM or start a different thread.

 

[BMcL]

This fear of covid would disappear if people were educated about available treatments that WORK.
There is a cheap one and a few expensive ones. I think Pfizer has an expensive pill coming out that will be decent too.
A mono-clonal antibody shot is available that's effective if used early, but it's expensive.
Ivermectin has been attacked with tons of money funding propaganda trying to scare people from using it.
I have a link to a pharmacy in India ; I have over 200 12mg pills at home in my fridge that would treat dozens of people.
It's cheap; $150 for 200 pills. And in India, ivermectin has wiped covid out. It's an amazing drug with zero side effects in normal use.

 

[Shale MacGregor]

This fear of covid would disappear if people were educated about available treatments that WORK.
There is a cheap one and a few expensive ones. I think Pfizer has an expensive pill coming out that will be decent too.
A mono-clonal antibody shot is available that's effective if used early, but it's expensive.
Ivermectin has been attacked with tons of money funding propaganda trying to scare people from using it.
I have a link to a pharmacy in India ; I have over 200 12mg pills at home in my fridge that would treat dozens of people.
It's cheap; $150 for 200 pills. And in India, ivermectin has wiped covid out. It's an amazing drug with zero side effects in normal use.

Yikes... zero side effects in normal use? Propaganda? Here is a study from 3 years PRIOR to covid kicking off, hopefully the conspiracy theory didn't go that far back in time.

A total of 1,668 reports for ivermectin were identified. The most commonly reported adverse events for ivermectin were pruritus (25.3%), headache (13.9%), and dizziness (7.5%). Under the MedDRA SOC “Neurological disorders,” there were a total of 426 reports; 156 of these were classified as “serious” according to ICH Guidance.

Sure it might work, feel free to experiment but don't push it on others with lies such as "zero side effects"

 

[BMcL]

Yikes... zero side effects in normal use? Propaganda? Here is a study from 3 years PRIOR to covid kicking off, hopefully the conspiracy theory didn't go that far back in time.

A total of 1,668 reports for ivermectin were identified. The most commonly reported adverse events for ivermectin were pruritus (25.3%), headache (13.9%), and dizziness (7.5%). Under the MedDRA SOC “Neurological disorders,” there were a total of 426 reports; 156 of these were classified as “serious” according to ICH Guidance.

Sure it might work, feel free to experiment but don't push it on others with lies such as "zero side effects"

Out of how many billion doses ? If you are going to cite stats, give a link.
Big pharma is spending millions to stop ivermectin which is a dirt cheap generic wonder drug. It's anti-viral and anti-inflammatory.
It's not a silver bullet but it stops the virus from replicating and allows you to fight it off naturally.

 

[Shale MacGregor]

Out of how many billion doses ? If you are going to cite stats, give a link.
Big pharma is spending millions to stop ivermectin which is a dirt cheap generic wonder drug. It's anti-viral and anti-inflammatory.
It's not a silver bullet but it stops the virus from replicating and allows you to fight it off naturally.

So I quote a study that is easily googleable and you ask for a link, but then you say big pharma is spending millions to combat ivermectin and don't bother linking anything related to proof? Then you state that an anti-inflammatory is stopping viral replication without links? Cool!

 

[BMcL]

Then you state that an anti-inflammatory is stopping viral replication without links? Cool!
----------

Ivermectin: a systematic review from antiviral effects to COVID-19 complementary regimen​

Ivermectin proposes many potentials effects to treat a range of diseases, with its antimicrobial, antiviral, and anti-cancer properties as a wonder drug. It is highly effective against many microorganisms including some viruses. In this comprehensive systematic review, antiviral effects of ivermectin are summarized including in vitro and in vivo studies over the past 50 years. Several studies reported antiviral effects of ivermectin on RNA viruses such as Zika, dengue, yellow fever, West Nile, Hendra, Newcastle, Venezuelan equine encephalitis, chikungunya, Semliki Forest, Sindbis, Avian influenza A, Porcine Reproductive and Respiratory Syndrome, Human immunodeficiency virus type 1, and severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus

Ivermectin: a systematic review from antiviral effects to COVID-19 complementary regimen - PubMed

Ivermectin proposes many potentials effects to treat a range of diseases, with its antimicrobial, antiviral, and anti-cancer properties as a wonder drug. It is highly effective against many microorganisms including some viruses. In this comprehensive systematic review, antiviral effects of...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Dzl]

If you are going to cite stats, give a link.

If you are going to demand others provide links/cite sources (and I am all for citing credible sources), you should of course be citing (credible) sources when you yourself make claims, like the one above, anything less is a double standard.

There has been too much of this in this thread (people demanding high bars of evidence of those they disagree with, while providing little to none of their own, or at best a youtube video or something). <-- this is not directed at everyone in this thread, but I think its an area we could all do better (vetting and providing credible sources, protecting ourselves from being conduits of misinformation, not just posting everything that reflects our worldview/pre-conceived beliefs, and treating our own ideas as skeptically as those we disagree with).

 

[BMcL]

If you are going to demand others provide links/cite sources (and I am all for citing credible sources), you should of course be citing (credible) sources when you yourself make claims, like the one above, anything less is a double standard.

There has been too much of this in this thread (people demanding high bars of evidence of those they disagree with, while providing little to none of their own, or at best a youtube video or something). <-- this is not directed at everyone in this thread, but I think its an area we could all do better (vetting and providing credible sources, protecting ourselves from being conduits of misinformation, not just posting everything that reflects our worldview/pre-conceived beliefs, and treating our own ideas as skeptically as those we disagree with).

Ivermectin: a systematic review from antiviral effects to COVID-19 complementary regimen​

Ivermectin proposes many potentials effects to treat a range of diseases, with its antimicrobial, antiviral, and anti-cancer properties as a wonder drug. It is highly effective against many microorganisms including some viruses. In this comprehensive systematic review, antiviral effects of ivermectin are summarized including in vitro and in vivo studies over the past 50 years. Several studies reported antiviral effects of ivermectin on RNA viruses such as Zika, dengue, yellow fever, West Nile, Hendra, Newcastle, Venezuelan equine encephalitis, chikungunya, Semliki Forest, Sindbis, Avian influenza A, Porcine Reproductive and Respiratory Syndrome, Human immunodeficiency virus type 1, and severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus.

Ivermectin: a systematic review from antiviral effects to COVID-19 complementary regimen - PubMed

Ivermectin proposes many potentials effects to treat a range of diseases, with its antimicrobial, antiviral, and anti-cancer properties as a wonder drug. It is highly effective against many microorganisms including some viruses. In this comprehensive systematic review, antiviral effects of...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov