Unboxing of Deye 16K Hybrid Inverter

[solardad]

That transformer has a sticker right on the front that says it is rated for 5 kva. Also having the neutral leg going through a breaker is unnecessary and in fact adds an extra point of failure that could cause problems.
Are you sure this is not all going to end in tears?

Unless the plan is to have the 3p breaker feed the panel directly whereby then if it trips the whole panel goes down aka safe. Not sure what the extra breaker provides given the transformer’s windings are rated for a specific max output. Unless the windings are changed out then adding another breaker does nothing for the potential output I believe.

 

[Quattrohead]

This has become the exact same scenario as the Growatt 5000/transformer. Does it work ? Yes absolutely fine.....until something goes wrong.
It is a cheap hack, simple as that.

 

[misterbubbacat]

That transformer has a sticker right on the front that says it is rated for 5 kva. Also having the neutral leg going through a breaker is unnecessary and in fact adds an extra point of failure that could cause problems.
Are you sure this is not all going to end in tears?

Hopefully this help explain the purpose of a breaker's function from of one the top manufacturer Eaton.

 

[misterbubbacat]

This is the Growatt 5KW Transformer with no input and output protection, just a straight terminal block.





Growatt 11.4KW Transformer

 

[pilotdrh]

View attachment 128782

Hopefully this help explain the purpose of a breaker's function from of one the top manufacturer Eaton.

Otherwise known as preventing the production of bucky balls.

 

[Quattrohead]

View attachment 128782

Hopefully this help explain the purpose of a breaker's function from of one the top manufacturer Eaton.

Oh thankyou so much, very helpful.
You just keep convincing yourself that everything will be fine. It will be....until it's not.

 

[misterbubbacat]

Oh thankyou so much, very helpful.
You just keep convincing yourself that everything will be fine. It will be....until it's not.

You're most welcome, just to make sure you stay safe and come back to provide more critique.

Evel Knieve's disclaimer : "Kids, don't try this at home" ?

 

[misterbubbacat]

Wired up the 16K LOAD OUT to the Growatt AST 11400T-US to check voltage on the 80A Split-phase output with THHN #2 wire. Measuring both L1-N, L2-N and L1-L1. Stable balanced Voltage on both L1-N and L2-N = 121.6V and L1-L2 = 243.2V N-G = 0.00V

Simulated Over-Voltage/Current protection by flipping the Input Double Pole 80A breaker, measure 0.00V across terminal L1,L2 = 0.00V and likewise the Triple Pole 80A breaker off and measured 0.00V across all Split-phase L1-N-L2 terminals.

If Growatt AST ever loose either the Input from the 16K or it's Split-phase output to the LOAD panel, all appliances/equipment wired up on the 120V breaker will NEVER be damaged due over-voltage to 240V by the LOST of the NEUTRAL from the AST.

Waiting for Amazon to deliver Load center panel, more breakers and more #2 THHN wires for LOAD testing. The next phase of the test will be fun as I will attempt to pull at least 13KW LOAD via the 50A EV charger and whatever other 120V appliance that I have available testing. May need to borrow David Poz's heavy weight Saw and compressor for some heavy duty inductive load ?

Stay tune folks. ?


Growatt wire to Deye 16K LOAD with #2

Split-phase Output L1-L2 = 243.2V

L1-N = 121.16V

Perfect L2-N=121.16

Simulating Overcurrent/Overload from 16K LOAD OUT to Growatt EPS INPUT with Double Pole 80A Breaker OFF
L2-N=0.00V No worry of loosing the Neutral from the Split-phase and frying the 120V connected LOAD/Appliance, as the 3 pole breaker will trip and losses output power to the LOAD panel. Excellent ?

With the Victron Autotransformer models, it comes with either a 2 pole 32A or 100A breaker for the input side and does not offer a output triple pole output breaker for anomaly protection. Besides, both Victron model offers only a 32A on the Neutral. ?

 

[misterbubbacat]

Oh one more thing .... Power consumption of the 16K and Growatt AST

Deye 16K at idle consume 54.55V*1.4A = 76.37w

At idle with 16K and AST 54.55V*1.77A = 96.55w,
The Growatt AST only consume a meager 20.18w at idle and that's a Transformer people, that can handle high inductive load ?

 

[misterbubbacat]

Here's an updated datasheet of my Enhanced AST, I called this the AST 19200T-US, not available at Signature Solar ??

 

[misterbubbacat]

With the Holidays, finally got around working on the system. Battery BMS firmware and 16K Inverter firmware updated successfully. Wired up the system for more testing.

The Inverter Firmware receiving a update from default factory C35A to C35D


Here's the updated with the latest Firmware, LCD Device info of the 16K


Entire battery bank wired up and BMS Firmware updated successfully.


16K is wired up to the Gird and charging the batteries at just 40A, all goes smoothly.

 

[Quattrohead]

That breaker is not meant to be switching the neutral, that is wrong. 3 pole breakers are for 3 phase systems.
But you keep doing you bubba.

 

[Sebanavila]

That breaker is not meant to be switching the neutral, that is wrong. 3 pole breakers are for 3 phase systems.
But you keep doing you bubba.

Come on man....a breaker is a breaker!!!! you can use a breaker for anything you want, even for the GROUND, if you want to, as long as it is rated for the current on the system.

 

[koppted]

That breaker is not meant to be switching the neutral, that is wrong. 3 pole breakers are for 3 phase systems.
But you keep doing you bubba.

a 3 pole breaker can be used to break 2 hots and a neutral in a split phase system. Heck there are 3 pole split phase (120/240) transfer switches.

 

[misterbubbacat]

Let's set the record straight, the 80A 3 pole MCB breaker on the EPS Out is FACTORY INSTALLED AT GROWATT period. Growatt have the unit UL tested to UL 1741 standard and is clearly listed on the label pasted on the left side of the chassis.

I've posted links to Eaton, one of the world's larger breaker manufacturer article that explains the function and safety of a breaker. The EPS output provides both L1-L2 (120V/240V) pass through directly from the 16K Critical Load to the EPS input of the Growatt autotransformer. If the load are balanced prior at the 16K, the Neutral leg of the transformer will not used and just pass through. Any unbalanced 120V EPS load will enter the transformer and the return current carried by the generated Neutral wire back to the Transformer. The function of the breaker is to protect any ground fault, arc fault and overcurrent and trip the breaker. Bear in mind, the generated Neutral wire does not carry any Voltage but it does carry the return current. If L1/L2 is for example drawing 1.5KW/120V=12.5A, if you use a clamp meter on the neutral, it will show 12.5A, same current as the L1/L2 12.5A. If for any reason the transformer generated Neutral wire is at fault, all 3 pole will trip at the same time to prevent the connected EPS LOAD panel from being energized with 240V that will FRIED ALL 120V APPLIANCE. Growatt is the ONLY autotransformer that provide a 80A 3 pole MCB breaker for EPS output protection. The Victron Autotransformer DOES NOT, it only provide a 2 pole MCB breaker at the Input leg of the autotransformer.

The L-L leg of the Growatt transformer in it's original form uses a pair of contactors to provide the AST (Auto-Transfer-Switch) for the AC Grid input and the Inverter EPS output. For my application, the AST function are not required as I will be using it off-grid without AC Grid input. The unit is rated by Growatt to provide 11.4KW 48A passthrough. The wired install at the factory are UF-B 8 AWG wire rated for 40A at 60C and 50A at 75C. At 48A*240=11.5KW. The mod that I've completed and tested is to remove the pair of ABB Contactor and replaced with a 2 pole MB breaker rated at 80A (to match the EPS output 3 pole MCB breaker) to protect the transformer from any faulted output of the 16K EPS LOAD output and rewire between the pair of breaker with THHN 4 AWG wire that are rated 95A at 75C ~ 95A*240V=22.8KW, restricted to 80A*240V=19.2KW due to the 80A rated MCB breakers install at the factory and my mod.

I will not discuss any further about about the function of circuit breakers, it waste of everyone's bandwidth. It's a non starter.

 

[pilotdrh]

a 3 pole breaker can be used to break 2 hots and a neutral in a split phase system. Heck there are 3 pole split phase (120/240) transfer switches.

I worked in the power industry for over 30 years. The last 25 was at the premier ATS manufacturer in the world, 30 Amp to 4000 Amp switches. I've seen plenty of jobsites with 3 pole transfer switches being used to switch 240 volt single phase loads, including the neutral. Every one had a local electrical inspection.

 

[Quattrohead]

For an ATS where you are bonding and/or unbinding neutrals and grounds then a 3 pole transfer switch is the right tool. But it is poor practice to add an extra connection device that "could" open up if it failed in a split phase neutral system because you loose your neutral with the obvious problem.
It is not necessary and foolish to wire up an auto transformer this way, you need to remove any possiblity of loosing that 1 connection. A simple 2 pole breaker on the output of the inverter is the only 100% safe way to do this.
But like I have said so many times now, you all can buy cheap product that is not suitable for our whacky system and hack it to work. It's fine, flick the switch and things light up and make noise etc so " hey it works"

 

[Quattrohead]

Let's set the record straight, the 80A 3 pole MCB breaker on the EPS Out is FACTORY INSTALLED AT GROWATT period. Growatt have the unit UL tested to UL 1741 standard and is clearly listed on the label pasted on the left side of the chassis.

I've posted links to Eaton, one of the world's larger breaker manufacturer article that explains the function and safety of a breaker. The EPS output provides both L1-L2 (120V/240V) pass through directly from the 16K Critical Load to the EPS input of the Growatt autotransformer. If the load are balanced prior at the 16K, the Neutral leg of the transformer will not used and just pass through. Any unbalanced 120V EPS load will enter the transformer and the return current carried by the generated Neutral wire back to the Transformer. The function of the breaker is to protect any ground fault, arc fault and overcurrent and trip the breaker. Bear in mind, the generated Neutral wire does not carry any Voltage but it does carry the return current. If L1/L2 is for example drawing 1.5KW/120V=12.5A, if you use a clamp meter on the neutral, it will show 12.5A, same current as the L1/L2 12.5A. If for any reason the transformer generated Neutral wire is at fault, all 3 pole will trip at the same time to prevent the connected EPS LOAD panel from being energized with 240V that will FRIED ALL 120V APPLIANCE. Growatt is the ONLY autotransformer that provide a 80A 3 pole MCB breaker for EPS output protection. The Victron Autotransformer DOES NOT, it only provide a 2 pole MCB breaker at the Input leg of the autotransformer.

The L-L leg of the Growatt transformer in it's original form uses a pair of contactors to provide the AST (Auto-Transfer-Switch) for the AC Grid input and the Inverter EPS output. For my application, the AST function are not required as I will be using it off-grid without AC Grid input. The unit is rated by Growatt to provide 11.4KW 48A passthrough. The wired install at the factory are UF-B 8 AWG wire rated for 40A at 60C and 50A at 75C. At 48A*240=11.5KW. The mod that I've completed and tested is to remove the pair of ABB Contactor and replaced with a 2 pole MB breaker rated at 80A (to match the EPS output 3 pole MCB breaker) to protect the transformer from any faulted output of the 16K EPS LOAD output and rewire between the pair of breaker with THHN 4 AWG wire that are rated 95A at 75C ~ 95A*240V=22.8KW, restricted to 80A*240V=19.2KW due to the 80A rated MCB breakers install at the factory and my mod.

I will not discuss any further about about the function of circuit breakers, it waste of everyone's bandwidth. It's a non starter.


View attachment 130248
View attachment 130249

I don't know how to multi quote and insert my replies, but your reply here shows you don't know what you are doing. Also the Growatt UL cert is a lie.....Victron are doing it right as you point out.

 

[Cheap 4-life]

I don't know how to multi quote and insert my replies, but your reply here shows you don't know what you are doing. Also the Growatt UL cert is a lie.....Victron are doing it right as you point out.

You select the part of the quote you want to respond to and then click the new reply that pops up under the part of the quote you selected

 

[misterbubbacat]

To satisfied my own curiosity, I let my mouse and Internet savvy to do the job. Growatt ATS 11400T-US certification search result. I don't here say nor speak from my butt, I use my brain.



I'm a denier, Trump won 2020 ???