diy solar

diy solar

Using your Electric Vehicle to power your home

so we are looking at $38k for 98kWh of battery.
That is getting close to par with Server-rack batteries. And you get a free truck :)
Not any free truck, a 4 seconds 0-60 mph free truck šŸ˜„
If you prefer, a 12 seconds 1/4 mile free truck.
That not too boring to drive... for a truck I mean ;)
 
Make it a side by side and Iā€™m on board. Less ā€œfeaturesā€ means cheaper production
Less mass means smaller battery.
Then has the gains of utility feature and off road capability
If Iā€™m counting on it to be a backup during natural disaster then I definitely donā€™t want it to be my primary transportation as now Iā€™m stranded at home without power instead of just one or the other
 
A few points:

There is quite a distinction between V2L, V2H and V2G. Their use cases are quite variable.

V2L is what most EVs have already (aside from most common Tesla models). It's a really handy portable source of power when out and about, or for supplying some temporary backup power when it's not available at home.

V2H/G requires a whole different level of integration, using a 2-way charge station. These are a nascent technology and at present very expensive - they will improve and reduce in price. Their use case is more confined of course but it will have its uses. It's already been trialled here and elsewhere.

V2G will also likely require power distribution company approval to be connected as a grid tied generation source. There will be standards required for it (which are not yet in place in many parts of the world but it is being worked on).

As to any effect on an EV's battery/warranty, the sort of power draw available via V2L (a handful of kW) is tiny compared to the power demand from the drive motors in the car or the sort of charge rates from a DC fast charger. V2L is not going to stress the battery, in the same way AC charging does not stress it. The C rates for AC charging and V2L discharging are (in order of magnitude terms) in the 0.01C to 0.1C range, it's just not an issue for the car's battery which is designed to regularly deal with charge/discharge in the 1C range.

The on-board discharge systems also have in-built protection from over discharge (e.g. I cannot discharge mine below 20% SOC) and the low rate of discharge means it's hard to actually add much to the cycle count. V2L, in terms of battery life, is noise, not signal.

V2H and V2G will be very useful in many homes, and not so useful in many others. Just because it wouldn't work for you does not mean the same applies to everyone else.

V2G is expected to play a minor but helpful role in our (Australia's) grid energy solution in the decades ahead. It's been modelled in the long term strategies for our grid's transition to low carbon energy. It can assist with peak demand shaving, while providing a useful and controllable load when the grid needs it. Not every EV will be able do this, but that does not matter. It only requires a proportion of them to be able to usefully contribute.

My EV (an MG4 Essence with a 64 kWh battery) has V2L capability. Using the standard V2L connector, it's only rated to supply a modest ~2.2 kW. The on-board inverter is capable of supplying 7 kW (it's been tested by some in the UK) but I'm not going down the path of making custom connectors to access it as I don't need it. There are connectors available which increase the power out capacity to ~ 3.6 kW.

In terms of powering household loads directly, obviously ~2-4 kW is handy but limited.

It's great for powering essential items in a grid outage. And in recent times here there have been severe weather events in QLD and most recently in VIC which took out the grid power for various regions and many thousands of homes for days and weeks. Many of those with EVs realised they now had a source of backup power and in the mainstream local media this was now being reported as a thing, e.g. a mother using it for her child's life support equipment, while others getting creative in helping out others needing some short term power supply.

Now I have a home off-grid battery system which runs the home and a reserve capacity for outages, using the V2L for short term outages isn't on my radar. But the V2L does provide me with an extra source of energy should I need it, especially if the outage is extended and the solar production is poor. In my case it makes more sense to use it for supplemental charging of the home battery rather than powering the home directly. I did a video on that:

 
In my case it makes more sense to use it for supplemental charging of the home battery rather than powering the home directly.

Yep, this is exactly what I meant as well. And in this case, 2.2kW is plenty and eliminates (or at least lowers) the need to run a generator. When coupled with a car with LFP battery, the impact on the battery lifetime will be extremely minimal.
 
Yep, this is exactly what I meant as well. And in this case, 2.2kW is plenty and eliminates (or at least lowers) the need to run a generator. When coupled with a car with LFP battery, the impact on the battery lifetime will be extremely minimal.
Yup.

Based on 1C discharge degradation specs, the NMC battery in my car is good for ~700,000km before hitting 80% capacity.

More or less km depending on average operating temperature. Our average daily max is 25.8Ā°C and average daily minimum is 12.4Ā°C. Obviously we have hotter and colder temps but in eights years here it's never been below 4Ā°C.

But consider that 1C is a lot of power, much more than the car uses 98% of the time. At 110 km/h highway cruise speed the discharge rate in my car is ~0.25C.

V2L is no more than random noise in that context.
 
V2L is no more than random noise in that context.
Exactly. And especially considering that logically V2L will be use in the 80-20% SOC range.
So, far from where battery degradation is the most important.

At 110 km/h highway cruise speed the discharge rate in my car is ~0.25C.
With my Van, it's more around 0.5C šŸ˜…
Terrible aerodynamic!
 
I actually had a whole thread about this:


With the first F150 Lightning hitting the used market - and soon being available for the $4000 used car EV credit - it gets a strong idea to use those trucks a battery first and as truck second.

Around here the Pro Lighting sales around 42k - they are sitting forever on the lots - so I guess out the door should be around that price. Minus 4000 used EV point of sales credit - so we are looking at $38k for 98kWh of battery.

That is getting close to par with Server-rack batteries. And you get a free truck :)

To receive the used EV tax credit, the sales price must be $25k or less. Gonna be a long time before we see a $25k Lightning
 
Make it a side by side and Iā€™m on board. Less ā€œfeaturesā€ means cheaper production
Less mass means smaller battery.
Then has the gains of utility feature and off road capability
If Iā€™m counting on it to be a backup during natural disaster then I definitely donā€™t want it to be my primary transportation as now Iā€™m stranded at home without power instead of just one or the other
See my post above, it is actually my emergency backup.

Initimidator Classic EV with 13 KWH of 48 Volt LiFePo4 batteries.
 
Running a house off 2 kW isn't bad if you're not running a/c. For most of us it's just extending the batteries we already have.
 
A few points:

There is quite a distinction between V2L, V2H and V2G. Their use cases are quite variable.

V2L is what most EVs have already (aside from most common Tesla models). It's a really handy portable source of power when out and about, or for supplying some temporary backup power when it's not available at home.

V2H/G requires a whole different level of integration, using a 2-way charge station. These are a nascent technology and at present very expensive - they will improve and reduce in price. Their use case is more confined of course but it will have its uses. It's already been trialled here and elsewhere.

V2G will also likely require power distribution company approval to be connected as a grid tied generation source. There will be standards required for it (which are not yet in place in many parts of the world but it is being worked on).

As to any effect on an EV's battery/warranty, the sort of power draw available via V2L (a handful of kW) is tiny compared to the power demand from the drive motors in the car or the sort of charge rates from a DC fast charger. V2L is not going to stress the battery, in the same way AC charging does not stress it. The C rates for AC charging and V2L discharging are (in order of magnitude terms) in the 0.01C to 0.1C range, it's just not an issue for the car's battery which is designed to regularly deal with charge/discharge in the 1C range.

The on-board discharge systems also have in-built protection from over discharge (e.g. I cannot discharge mine below 20% SOC) and the low rate of discharge means it's hard to actually add much to the cycle count. V2L, in terms of battery life, is noise, not signal.

V2H and V2G will be very useful in many homes, and not so useful in many others. Just because it wouldn't work for you does not mean the same applies to everyone else.

V2G is expected to play a minor but helpful role in our (Australia's) grid energy solution in the decades ahead. It's been modelled in the long term strategies for our grid's transition to low carbon energy. It can assist with peak demand shaving, while providing a useful and controllable load when the grid needs it. Not every EV will be able do this, but that does not matter. It only requires a proportion of them to be able to usefully contribute.

My EV (an MG4 Essence with a 64 kWh battery) has V2L capability. Using the standard V2L connector, it's only rated to supply a modest ~2.2 kW. The on-board inverter is capable of supplying 7 kW (it's been tested by some in the UK) but I'm not going down the path of making custom connectors to access it as I don't need it. There are connectors available which increase the power out capacity to ~ 3.6 kW.

In terms of powering household loads directly, obviously ~2-4 kW is handy but limited.

It's great for powering essential items in a grid outage. And in recent times here there have been severe weather events in QLD and most recently in VIC which took out the grid power for various regions and many thousands of homes for days and weeks. Many of those with EVs realised they now had a source of backup power and in the mainstream local media this was now being reported as a thing, e.g. a mother using it for her child's life support equipment, while others getting creative in helping out others needing some short term power supply.

Now I have a home off-grid battery system which runs the home and a reserve capacity for outages, using the V2L for short term outages isn't on my radar. But the V2L does provide me with an extra source of energy should I need it, especially if the outage is extended and the solar production is poor. In my case it makes more sense to use it for supplemental charging of the home battery rather than powering the home directly. I did a video on that:

I have a short video related to this using 5kW external adaptor V2X , see here MG4 V2H from CCS2 port
 
Last edited:
This one (your link does not work)?


A bit more detail on the V2X adapter would be nice.
Thanks for the feedback on the link, it is fixed now.

As for the device, I hope it can speed up V2X adoption in the market. It bring V2X capability to most EV which has standard CCS port, including the well known Tesla. The device shown in the video has max power at 5kW, but the bigger model can do 15kW. It is small & light weight (~5kg) come with 1.5m CCS cable. 2x AC outlet and one PowerCON socket.

Once plug into your car, it will establish a reverse charging session and output AC power (normally in less than 30s). Since it is standard CCS charging session, all safety aspect of HV DC session is applied. The device has automatic cut off at 15% SoC to prevent main battery from overly discharge.

Hope this get you an idea
 
I have two Teslas and have rigged up a temporary V2L setup using a 12V inverter wired directly to the 12V terminals in the frunk. I don't know how it would work with the newer models with 16 Volt Lithium batteries instead of Lead Acit 12 Volt batteries. The DC to DC converter constantly charges the 12 Volt battery and I have never used more than about 10 Amps DC of load to charge power tool batteries. Directly accessing the high voltage battery is something I have not tried. Reportedly, California has said all EVs must have some V2X capability in the next few years. I do not know the details.
 
As for the device, I hope it can speed up V2X adoption in the market. It bring V2X capability to most EV which has standard CCS port, including the well known Tesla. The device shown in the video has max power at 5kW, but the bigger model can do 15kW. It is small & light weight (~5kg) come with 1.5m CCS cable. 2x AC outlet and one PowerCON socket.

Once plug into your car, it will establish a reverse charging session and output AC power (normally in less than 30s). Since it is standard CCS charging session, all safety aspect of HV DC session is applied. The device has automatic cut off at 15% SoC to prevent main battery from overly discharge.

Hope this get you an idea
Thanks, yes I understand what it's doing, at least I think I do. I'm assuming this is a prototype you have made?

Calling something V2X to me implies it is synchronised and operates in parallel with the grid supply (be it the main grid or a micro grid). That comes with a whole raft of legislative requirements.

Anything else to me makes it V2L, albeit one with a much higher power output capability, connecting directly to the car's ~400 V battery and using an external inverter, rather than the car's on-board inverter to supply the AC out. That is still pretty neat given the much higher capacity.

What is the AC output voltage?
 
I have two Teslas and have rigged up a temporary V2L setup using a 12V inverter wired directly to the 12V terminals in the frunk.
I recall @Will Prowse showing this hack in one of his videos a couple of years back. Tesla seems to be the exception amongst EV models with their lack of V2L (Cybertruck aside).

Edit: here it is, four years ago!

 
I also commented on that video when I saw it. You have to see it as something that integrates with the system, not something separate. For example, I could use the EV to drive for free in summer - that's a typical use case. However, having the vehicle act as an extension to the home battery would mean I have to use the generator less in winter. My wife or I have to drive to town anyway, or work, and I can buy energy cheap while I'm there (cheaper than typically buying diesel, or even the effort for making my own biodiesel for the generator) and put it into the home battery at night. Since I only use 5kWh per day or so to run the house, I would only have to siphon a little from the car to eliminate a lot of generator use. It complements the system quite nicely, especially with an efficient EV and relatively short commutes.

I'm just waiting for the EV I want: small and efficient, LFP battery. heatpump and V2L for a reasonable price. The BYD Dolphin comes really close...
Yup... The BYD Dolphin ticked all my boxes as my next EV.
- 60kWh LFP battery
- 3kw (some say 3.6kw) V2L.
- OTA updates
- 5 star Euro NCAP

Just received mine a few weeks ago:
20240221_155836.jpg

Lovely car...
It has its own quirks and bugs, but they are fairly minor, so I can live with that.

Back to our topic: I haven't had the chance to check or use the V2L yet, but it's certainly part of my backup plan, should we have a prolonged power outage.
I have a small 24v 3k system with 5kwh of storage and 1.2kwp of solar for some critical loads of the home.
But having a massive 60kwh battery is great.

At first I was thinking of integration with my existing system, but I think I will just use it as a separate power source (like a generator) if/when needed.
 
Thanks, yes I understand what it's doing, at least I think I do. I'm assuming this is a prototype you have made?

Calling something V2X to me implies it is synchronised and operates in parallel with the grid supply (be it the main grid or a micro grid). That comes with a whole raft of legislative requirements.

Anything else to me makes it V2L, albeit one with a much higher power output capability, connecting directly to the car's ~400 V battery and using an external inverter, rather than the car's on-board inverter to supply the AC out. That is still pretty neat given the much higher capacity.

What is the AC output voltage?
Yes, this is a production prototype, plan to commercialize it by next month.
I have a plan to make it grid connected as well, but as you said it is a lot more involve, so I stay off-grid initially.
The device give you 220v 50Hz pure sine (for US market it will be 110v 60Hz).
 
The device give you 220v 50Hz pure sine (for US market it will be 110v 60Hz).

Got it. Here (and UK, NZ) we'd be after 230/240 V AC 50 Hz.

1 x 32 A +
1 x 15 A
230 V AC 50 Hz outlets would be perfect here!

Yes, this is a production prototype, plan to commercialize it by next month.
Interesting, all the best with it. Keep us up to date with developments.
 
Got it. Here (and UK, NZ) we'd be after 230/240 V AC 50 Hz.

1 x 32 A +
1 x 15 A
230 V AC 50 Hz outlets would be perfect here!


Interesting, all the best with it. Keep us up to date with developments.
The 5kw device will have 2x 10A AC out let and 1x 20A powerCON socket. The 15kW model will have 2x 32A AC outlet, and 1x 32A powerCON socket.

Voltage and frequency can be tuned to fit with country/region spec no issue.

And thanks for the blessing, sure will keep the forum posted.
 
I may be interested as a way to power our ducted aircon overnight, or at least get through the evening peak tariff window.

I would need a programmable transfer switch so I could automate swapping between the EV and grid supply (during daytime the grid-tied PV covers it). Rest of our home is covered by the off-grid system but not the ducted AC, it draws too much power/energy for my home battery system.

Does the unit automatically commence a discharge session when connected to the car?

At the moment with V2L it requires setting the discharge function from the car's control panel, it can't be done remotely.

This is our overnight (6PM-6AM) ducted aircon energy consumption during Summer months:

Screen Shot 2024-03-10 at 3.37.27 pm.png
 
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