V2H status?

[fafrd]

Then that very well may be the trend if UL listing becomes the name of the game for batteries. A UL listing may be the only way to qualify under NEC 2020.
EDIT:
I just checked the CEC website and Growatt inverters. are not listed there. Perhaps you should fact check before posting something like that on a public forum if you have not verified the facts. So much for Renvu selling only CEC approved equipment. I have bought lots of stuff from Renvu that was not "UL listed and CA certified".

Interesting.

Growatt was all over the CEC list when I last checked this Spring but they are completely gone now (while Goodwe is all over the place).

So Growatt must be blacklisted and I suspect it may have something to do with the Autotransformer hack to convert their 230V single-phase into a 120V split-phase (of Signature Solar fame).

Don’t blame Renvu - they probably spent months setting up supply agreements and getting inventory established from the moment Growatt first got approved earlier this year. No idea when the blacklist dropped but Renvu may not even know (as didn’t I).

It should be a warning to any attracted to cheap Chinese equipment that makes it into the CEC list - mistakes happen and if they approve equipment based on vendors mistaken/false assertions, they can drop that vendor off of the list the moment a misrepresentation and/or oversight is brought to light…

I remember being surprised to see Growatt on the list this Spring knowing all the debate that was going on on this Forum as fas as whether the split-phase architecture being promoted by they and Signature Solar was up to snuff or not…

I’m going to start tracking those 400V Growatt batteries on Renvu - I suspect they’ll end up needing to give them away .

 

[fafrd]

Interesting.

Growatt was all over the CEC list when I last checked this Spring but they are completely gone now (while Goodwe is all over the place).

So Growatt must be blacklisted and I suspect it may have something to do with the Autotransformer hack to convert their 230V single-phase into a 120V split-phase (of Signature Solar fame).

Don’t blame Renvu - they probably spent months setting up supply agreements and getting inventory established from the moment Growatt first got approved earlier this year. No idea when the blacklist dropped but Renvu may not even know (as didn’t I).

It should be a warning to any attracted to cheap Chinese equipment that makes it into the CEC list - mistakes happen and if they approve equipment based on vendors mistaken/false assertions, they can drop that vendor off of the list the moment a misrepresentation and/or oversight is brought to light…

I remember being surprised to see Growatt on the list this Spring knowing all the debate that was going on on this Forum as fas as whether the split-phase architecture being promoted by they and Signature Solar was up to snuff or not…

I’m going to start tracking those 400V Growatt batteries on Renvu - I suspect they’ll end up needing to give them away .

Wanted to correct this misstatement I made.

The CEC list looks like it may have been reorganized since I last checked it in the spring but regardless, when I quickly searched for ‘Growatt’ prior to this mistaken post, nothing came up.

By taking a bit more time scanning all vendors, I found:

‘Shenzhen Growatt New Energy Technology Co., Ltd’

There are 103 approved Growatt inverters (at least as many as we’re on the list last Spring).

 

[Ampster]

Good to know. Thanks for the update.

 

[fafrd]

Good read about Emporium and their plans for bidirectional charging: https://chargedevs.com/features/emp...res-for-the-bidirectional-ev-charging-future/

 

[Ampster]

I hope he can deliver on the promise of a reasonably priced bidirectional interface. I probably won't be able to use one because I do not see Tesla allowing that and I am already invested in a stationary pack that may live longer than me. I do love my Energy Monitor and the price point it came in at.

 

[fafrd]

I hope he can deliver on the promise of a reasonably priced bidirectional interface. I probably won't be able to use one because I do not see Tesla allowing that and I am already invested in a stationary pack that may live longer than me. I do love my Energy Monitor and the price point it came in at.

Yeah, Tesla is kind of the Apple of EVs (Their Way or the Highway), so who knows if we’ll ever see open-standards bidirectional chargers for Tesla EVs?

I like what Emporia is doing and think it was brilliant strategy to focus on Energy Monitoring first. No matter how many boxes you may have in your system, a good energy monitor is positioned to be the best ‘brain’ for the overall system.

I’m likely to be getting an Emporia Energy Monitor as soon as the design of their bidirectional charger is frozen and I can be certain the existing Energy Monitor supports all of the capability of their bidirectional charger.

My only concern with the Empiria approach is that it is black box (similar to Tesla in some ways). You can choose among the functions they have established but cannot deliver any functionality that goes beyond that.

Hopefully it’s all great kit and does everything you’d like it to do, but to my mind, the ‘right’ solution architecture for Solar + EV will involve an Energy Monitor / Brain, a bidirectional EV charger, and a Hybrid Inverter including a small but separate House Battery.

There are already some AIO bidirectional charger concepts including all of that capability in a single box (attractive if you are making a new install but less attractive for retrofitting a legacy PV system).

So my concern with Emporia’s solution is to understand what flexibility it will offer to work alongside a central Hybrid Imverter with its own Modestly-sized House Battery.

Sounds like you’ve already invested in a House Battery big enough to meet all your needs, so all this V2X stuff is less likely to be necessary for you.

I’m barely getting by on NEM1 and since it’s clear the CPUC and my utility plan on changing the rules going forward, I’m trying to plan for a bidirectional-EV-based home energy storage solution to capture and consume most all of my excess solar production for when the time comes.

Exciting times .

 

[fafrd]

The Hyundai Ioniq 5 may (or may not) already support bidirectional charging: https://thedriven.io/2022/04/25/ion...world-first-bi-directional-energy-system/amp/

At l east with proprietary idirecrional chargers similar to how Ford came out with the Ford F-150 Lightening.

The big unknown is whether any customization was needed on the Ioniq 5 was required or not.

Any hardware customization would be somewhat of a showstopper but SW/FW customization would probably mean that the capability could be released on stock Ioniq 5s through a SW/FW update…

 

[nodoze]

Thanks @fafrd for all the informative posts & please let us know if you see their Energy Storage System (ESS) &/or bi-directional charger (V2X) actually become available.

I am very interested & am planning on starting a home build later this year & an ideal setup for me would be an ESS with a V2X and something like the Lighting as I would love to be able to tap that large battery in a seamless manner in an emergency...

If you do get the "EMPORIA VUE WHOLE HOME ENERGY MONITOR" please report back after you get it in place and have data. My main question is whether you have direct access to the data or whether it is a closed "black box" with no external interface. Currently for energy monitoring I already have the Open Source "IoTaWatt" system and am pretty happy with it as I have full access to the data and don't need to upload it anywhere nor do I need have an internet connection to use it:

IoTaWatt™ Open WiFi Electric Power Monitor

Electric Power Monitor. Residential and Commercial. Single, split and three-phase. Any voltage. Local data storage and analysis and also upload to your cloud service. Economical. Ships worldwide, in use in dozens of countries on four continents.

www.iotawatt.com

 

[Ampster]

If you do get the "EMPORIA VUE WHOLE HOME ENERGY MONITOR" please report back after you get it in place and have data. My main question is whether you have direct access to the data or whether it is a closed "black box" with no external interface.

I have had an Emporia Energy monitor and have not found a way to interface with the data other than export. . It is all accessible through a web interface. There is an ability to export historical data via a CSV file but that is the extent of it as far as I know. There is a user forum where you might find a more definitive answer.

 

[nodoze]

I have had an Emporia Energy monitor and have not found a way to export data. It is all accessible through a web interace. There is an ability to export historical data via a CSV file but that is the extent of it as far as I know. There is a usder forum where you might find a more definitive answer.

Thanks for the info. Can you tell whether it is a locally hosted web interface on the Emporia Energy Monitor itself or do you have to connect to an externally "cloud" hosted Emporia web interface to get the CSV file?

 

[Ampster]

...... Can you tell whether it is a locally hosted web interface on the Emporia Energy Monitor itself or do you have to connect to an externally "cloud" hosted Emporia web interface to get the CSV file?

It is an external interface using a url of web.emporiaenergy.com

 

[fafrd]

I have had an Emporia Energy monitor and have not found a way to interface with the data other than export. . It is all accessible through a web interface. There is an ability to export historical data via a CSV file but that is the extent of it as far as I know. There is a user forum where you might find a more definitive answer.

Emporia seems to be largely a black-box in terms of functionality / capability (pre-canned functionality, no ability to customize).

They told me they do not allow us timers to do any customization of functionality other than select amount the settings and parameters they have established.

I was told a WiFi connection to the web was a requirement to use their products but that data was never sold to 3rd parties.

I did not ask about data download but it makes sense that they’d support that.

When I raised privacy concerns I was told they have not had any real issue with privacy concerns but that many customers complain about having their hands tied and having no way to add scripts / code to add functionality…

 

[fafrd]

Thanks @fafrd for all the informative posts & please let us know if you see their Energy Storage System (ESS) &/or bi-directional charger (V2X) actually become available.

I am very interested & am planning on starting a home build later this year & an ideal setup for me would be an ESS with a V2X and something like the Lighting as I would love to be able to tap that large battery in a seamless manner in an emergency...

The Ford F-150 Lightening is the only EV supporting bidirectional charging and V2H through CCS ports/plugs today, but they do so only through their proprietary bidirectional charger (designed by Siemens) and based on a proprietary protocol (developed and released before publication of the new standard).

So if you are interested in a Ford-150 Lightening anyway, I think you are good to go.

You’ll be able to charge other EVa through CCS but only unidirectional”y (no V2H).

If you get another WV supporting bidirectional charging and V2H, you’ll probably need to invest in a new charger to enable that capability.

But for only using your Ford F-150 Lightening for V2H in your own home, you’ll have it as good as it gets…

If you do get the "EMPORIA VUE WHOLE HOME ENERGY MONITOR" please report back after you get it in place and have data. My main question is whether you have direct access to the data or whether it is a closed "black box" with no external interface. Currently for energy monitoring I already have the Open Source "IoTaWatt" system and am pretty happy with it as I have full access to the data and don't need to upload it anywhere nor do I need have an internet connection to use it:

IoTaWatt™ Open WiFi Electric Power Monitor

Electric Power Monitor. Residential and Commercial. Single, split and three-phase. Any voltage. Local data storage and analysis and also upload to your cloud service. Economical. Ships worldwide, in use in dozens of countries on four continents.

www.iotawatt.com

You certainly do need connection to WiFi and internet to use the Emporia…

But in fairness, it is much more than just data collection. If it is able to control other devices such as EV chargers and possibly hybrid inverters through algorithms available in the cloud, it would be more expensive and less flexible to integrate that capability locally for use off-line…

 

[nodoze]

The Ford F-150 Lightening is the only EV supporting bidirectional charging and V2H through CCS ports/plugs today, but they do so only through their proprietary bidirectional charger (designed by Siemens) and based on a proprietary protocol (developed and released before publication of the new standard).

So if you are interested in a Ford-150 Lightening anyway, I think you are good to go.

You’ll be able to charge other EVa through CCS but only unidirectional”y (no V2H).

If you get another WV supporting bidirectional charging and V2H, you’ll probably need to invest in a new charger to enable that capability.

But for only using your Ford F-150 Lightening for V2H in your own home, you’ll have it as good as it gets…

You certainly do need connection to WiFi and internet to use the Emporia…

But in fairness, it is much more than just data collection. If it is able to control other devices such as EV chargers and possibly hybrid inverters through algorithms available in the cloud, it would be more expensive and less flexible to integrate that capability locally for use off-line…

Thanks again for all the good info. Hopefully Emporium ends up providing a way that the system can be monitored/maintained in a true internet down or even worse full grid down situation. I really like that https://www.iotawatt.com/ is fully Open Source so the community can verify no spyware/etc and that it does not need any internet or external connection. There is no reason why the community couldn't write algorithms to integrate via APIs to chargers/etc. Your other comments are valid in that, while anything is possible, it could require a bunch of tinkering with "duck-tape & bailing wire" to get er done and many folk are not up for that... There are those that will as can be seen in this thread:

Sol-Ark - Inverter Monitoring

In short real-time monitoring is possible with the Sol-Ark! I decided to post a dedicated thread on this topic given the ongoing interest and research that has been done by some members. I am pointing folks to the resources that I used for the primary setup but will highlight the Sol-Ark...

diysolarforum.com

In the end if they don't release their products in time (nor anyone else releases an ESS with V2X) my current plan is to move the IoTaWatts to the new home & go with SolArk & some server rack batteries. For now our only current plug in vehicle likely will never support bi-directional charging so we will just have a regular charger for it & I will likely see if I can find a manual way in an emergency to convert electricity out in a manner that will not adversely affect the vehicle. If they figure out a way to do bi-directional to an external source (like the SolArk) from a Lighting then I may go with something like that.

 

[curiouscarbon]

thanks for the info.

any option that requires a connection to internet is a complete non starter, personally.

half the entire exercise is about resiliency. internet goes out more than power

appreciate the info, thanks!

 

[fafrd]

thanks for the info.

any option that requires a connection to internet is a complete non starter, personally.

half the entire exercise is about resiliency. internet goes out more than power

appreciate the info, thanks!

My views are not that different, but I’d want to understand what functionality is maintained during an internet outage and what competing stand alone products offer as far as price and capability.

My goal is to control a V2H bidirectional charger and if the Emporia solution makes that easy-enough, that’s worth some compromise to me.

 

[cwlutterloh]

Will V2H still work if you have microinverters?

 

[Ampster]

Will V2H still work if you have microinverters?

Micros should work just like any other GT inverter. I don't know the specs of the V2H equipment but hopefully it would have the ability to AC couple with existing GT systems.

 

[fafrd]

Will V2H still work if you have microinverters?

Yes, a V2H inverter looks to your electrical system and the grid just like any other grid-tied inverter (string inverter or microinverter).

So for in-grid application (offset of liad consumption from EV energy), there should be no issue.

For backup capability (iff-grid through transfer switch once grid goes down), the answer is a bit more complex.

If the V2H inverter supports frequency-shift and the Microinverters also support frequency-shuft and are alto rerouted to the Critical Loads panel, the Microinverters should be able to function governed by the grid-forming function of the V2H inverter.

If either the Microinverters or the V2H inverter do not support frequency shift, the best you can hope for is that the Microinverters will function until the V2H inverter has charged the EV and then they will be shut down until the next morning.

 

[fafrd]

I just discovered that Victron recently introduced a new EV Charger: https://www.victronenergy.com/accessories/ev-charging-station

It's a Smart Charger that can be configured to only charge the EV with excess solar energy and given Victron's reputation for effectively integrating their various products together, I suspect the smart capability is top-notch in an all-Victron system.

Now that the bidirectional charging standard has been published (finally!) I'm hoping Victron plans to add to this new product line by introducing a V2H-capabe bidirectional charger in 2024 or possibly even next year.

The prospect of a Victron Multiplus II 120x2 powered by a 48V or 24V House Battery integrated with a Victron SCC and now a Victron V2H-capable bidirectional charger is probably one of the most compelling multi-box solutions to self-consume while remaining tied to the grid that I can see on the ~2024 horizon...