very high heatsink temperature on Victron 100/30 MPPT

[Checkthisout]

No. Neither do their inverters.

I know my MP does not.

Kind of weird when my EPever mppt does.

However maybe Victron thinks people worry about it too much and giving users the readout would generate unnecessary concern. Electronics operate at higher temps than people think. Most are in larger cases so the user isn't as close to the heat-producing components and heat sink as they are with an MPPT.

I'm reminded of how many people are concerned about fluid temps in their vehicles based on old wives tales of what acceptable fluid temps are. This drives manufacturers to just install idiot lights and gauges that show range rather than actual temps.

 

[Dooug]

Mounting the mppts on a stand off to improve rear clearance would be helpful. Also a little more space between the breaker box directly above the mppt could be an improvement.

Cerbo has up to 4 temperature inputs that could trigger the fans. Mount the sensor to the mppt chassis ground on the heat sink and run the wires to the cerbo.

Would have to figure out heat sink temp vs IR temp and adjust accordingly.

 

[Checkthisout]

Mounting the mppts on a stand off to improve rear clearance would be helpful. Also a little more space between the breaker box directly above the mppt could be an improvement.

Cerbo has up to 4 temperature inputs that could trigger the fans. Mount the sensor to the mppt chassis ground on the heat sink and run the wires to the cerbo.

Would have to figure out heat sink temp vs IR temp and adjust accordingly.

Yeah. In my mind, the solutions are super easy.

I'm going to guess that if the charger derates due to heating, that it reduces on-time of the fets which means array voltage would go up and amps into the batteries would drop.

I would think one would be able to watch the readings change pretty quick when toggling the fan on and off (if you chose to install a fan).

 

[fat_old_sun]

This guy has documented his attempts at managing heat in his Victron MPPTs. He has a couple of more videos apart from the one below.

Trying to come up with ways to manage heat is good, but a reputable vendor like Victron should not be making controllers that waste 10-15% of the harvested power in the heatsink. We need a a MPPT solar charger that 95% or more efficient at the rated max input voltage & output current.

 

[featherlite]

The temperature range of the MPPT is rated at AMBIENT meaning they're designed to work when the cooling air is 60°C, not the unit itself.

That makes me feel a lot better.

Thanks for the education!

 

[Checkthisout]

Trying to come up with ways to manage heat is good, but a reputable vendor like Victron should not be making controllers that waste 10-15% of the harvested power in the heatsink. We need a a MPPT solar charger that 95% or more efficient at the rated max input voltage & output current.

Why do you think it's burning 10-15% of the juice off in the cc?

 

[JRH]

Comment deleted

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Trying to come up with ways to manage heat is good, but a reputable vendor like Victron should not be making controllers that waste 10-15% of the harvested power in the heatsink. We need a a MPPT solar charger that 95% or more efficient at the rated max input voltage & output current.

On what are you basing that statement?

Here's what my 250/100 did today:



2483W PV
2406W battery

77W lost

77/2483 = 3.1% loss (96.9% efficient)

That's still 77W lost. That's a lot of heat. Go wrap your hand around a 60W incandescent bulb and tell me 60°C is too hot.

 

[Checkthisout]

Transistors cannot be switched without heat being generated.

That's kind of a given.

Given Victron's excruciatingly low idle draw on their inverters, I assume they probably apply some of their tricks to their MPPT to avoid generating unnecessary waste heat.

 

[Tomthumb62]

Transistors cannot be switched without heat being generated.

That's kind of a given.

Given Victron's excruciatingly low idle draw on their inverters, I assume they probably apply some of their tricks to their MPPT to avoid generating unnecessary waste heat.

A rather unscientific test: up until fairly recently, I had a Renogy 30A MPPT. In full sun with 600W panels, it produced some heat but it never felt hot.

It’s been replaced with an equivalent Victron MPPT 100/30. It produces similar if not less heat, even though it has a smaller footprint with smaller metal fins for heat dissipation.

I’m “measuring” the heat not even with an infrared thermometer, but simply by touching with my hand. Like I said, no very scientific but I’m not concerned about heat in this Victron MPPT that’s over paneled 23%.

The space both the Renogy and Victron MPPT were/are located is an unventilated coat closet FULL of coats. Very little ventilation. I try to keep the coats as far away from the MPPT as possible, but road vibrations often shuffle the coats around.

There’s a guy on Etsy selling 3d printed honey comb things that one can attach a fan to. I might consider one if I think the Victron is getting too warm, but I highly doubt that’s going to be a reality.

Ambient temps in this closet get as high as 110-115F in summer, but most of the time, it’s 60-100F, average of 80F.

 

[AlpineJoe]

Transistors cannot be switched without heat being generated.

That's kind of a given.

Given Victron's excruciatingly low idle draw on their inverters, I assume they probably apply some of their tricks to their MPPT to avoid generating unnecessary waste heat.

This isn't a linear regulator where the excess is wasted as heat, it's a switcher. And yes, in the linear region, a lot of heat is generated, hence why switchers turn on the mosfet as fast as possible to minimize being in this region. That leaves the RDSon resistance of the mosfet itself as the main loss, which can be extremely low. Using the lowest resistance inductor minimizes losses there and Victron might even be using active rectification to replace the flyback diode to increase the efficiency even more.

As far as 'wasting' power, the Victron doesn't have to do it by converting it to heat. It can just not convert all of it. Run the panels at not their optimum point to reduce the output current would do it. You probably wouldn't see the waste then either as your calc of input V x I = output V x I would still come out close. You'd be none the wiser other than noticing less production for the day.

 

[fat_old_sun]

On what are you basing that statement?



2483W PV
2406W battery

77W lost

77/2483 = 3.1% loss (96.9% efficient)

That's still 77W lost. That's a lot of heat. Go wrap your hand around a 60W incandescent bulb and tell me 60°C is too hot.

I based my comment on my observations with which I started this thread.

Your data shows that the MPPT input voltage was 113.9V, less than the rated max of 250V and current was ~40 Amps (assuming that your battery bank 48V), less than 50% of the rated max output current. This is the sweet spot for MPPTs. I would like to see 95+% at PV input of 225-250V & an out of 80-100 Amps.
If you (or other members) have MPPT controllers that are operating closes to their rated max specs, please share them. The two systems I was working with were operating at ~80V Input & 27-28A output (100/30 Victron MPPT).

 

[sunshine_eggo]

I based my comment on my observations with which I started this thread.

Your data shows that the MPPT input voltage was 113.9V, less than the rated max of 250V and current was ~40 Amps (assuming that your battery bank 48V), less than 50% of the rated max output current. This is the sweet spot for MPPTs. I would like to see 95+% at PV input of 225-250V & an out of 80-100 Amps.

You can NEVER have an array OPERATING at a MPPT's max voltage. That means Voc will be over-rated. Vmp is typically 80-83% of Voc and most people live in places where they need further margin for cold temperature.

The highest practical operating voltage on a 250V controller is going to be around 180V (6S 60 cell panels) unless you're in the tropics and never see significant temperature variation and can configure an array with Voc truly close to the limit. Even here in Phoenix, I need a 12% margin for near freezing temps in the winter. That means my array needs to be no more than 223V... which yields a Vmp around 180V.

If you (or other members) have MPPT controllers that are operating closes to their rated max specs, please share them. The two systems I was working with were operating at ~80V Input & 27-28A output (100/30 Victron MPPT).

So you have 80Vmp operating on a 100V controller? I call BS, or you're in a climate that never sees temps below 25°C, or you're foolishing willing to exceed 100V and risk frying your controller.

 

[Checkthisout]

I based my comment on my observations with which I started this thread.

Your data shows that the MPPT input voltage was 113.9V, less than the rated max of 250V and current was ~40 Amps (assuming that your battery bank 48V), less than 50% of the rated max output current. This is the sweet spot for MPPTs. I would like to see 95+% at PV input of 225-250V & an out of 80-100 Amps.
If you (or other members) have MPPT controllers that are operating closes to their rated max specs, please share them. The two systems I was working with were operating at ~80V Input & 27-28A output (100/30 Victron MPPT).

What do you mean here?

I have 2 different charge controllers I have maxed out a handful of times. What data are you asking for?

 

[rustythorn]

the explorist has a 'hack' for keeping things cool with victron.

couple of things i've learned about that in theory should help. most inverters reach peak efficiency [which normally also means least heat output] around 1/4 output so a 3000 watt inverter is ideal when it puts out ~750 watts. SCCs seem to be reach peak efficiency between 1/3 and 1/2 of their max solar input and 1/4 to 1/3 of max charge rate. another consideration is voltage differential. SCCs also reach peak efficiency around 1.5 times the battery voltage. these are all loose guidelines with limited supporting data. i've noticed the most complaints about high SCC temps from 12 volt battery systems. i assume this is because the voltage differential tends to be larger there?

 

[WindWizard]

but a reputable vendor like Victron should not be making controllers that waste 10-15% of the harvested power in the heatsink.

I have three Victron Controllers. Two 250/100 and one 150/100. I have been monitoring them for some time. Sometimes the current approaches maximum current of a bit over 5000 watts on a 48-volt system. The voltage is nowhere near the maximum 250 volts. It is running around 150 volts on the 250-volt controllers.

I know that they get a bit hot because I have been monitoring them by feeling the heatsink on the back. I would not consider them to be getting overly hot by no means. I can still touch the heatsink, so it is not burning hot. I have not measured the temperature, but I would say it might be in the 90-100 deg f. I do not think that they are wasting 10-15%. That would be around 500 plus watts. The heatsinks would be so hot there would be no way I could touch them, and I seriously would not be running them that hot. I know that heat destroys electronics.

I would consider the Victron to be a superb product in every way. I had some Outback FM-80s that were noisy due to the fans and were putting out more heat. I suspect the efficiency of the Victron Comptroller's is 95%+. I will check them next time we get some sun around here. It looks like a week of clouds and rain/snow in Maine.

 

[Checkthisout]

I have three Victron Controllers. Two 250/100 and one 150/100. I have been monitoring them for some time. Sometimes the current approaches maximum current of a bit over 5000 watts on a 48-volt system. The voltage is nowhere near the maximum 250 volts. It is running around 150 volts on the 250-volt controllers.

I know that they get a bit hot because I have been monitoring them by feeling the heatsink on the back. I would not consider them to be getting overly hot by no means. I can still touch the heatsink, so it is not burning hot. I have not measured the temperature, but I would say it might be in the 90-100 deg f. I do not think that they are wasting 10-15%. That would be around 500 plus watts. The heatsinks would be so hot there would be no way I could touch them, and I seriously would not be running them that hot. I know that heat destroys electronics.

I would consider the Victron to be a superb product in every way. I had some Outback FM-80s that were noisy due to the fans and were putting out more heat. I suspect the efficiency of the Victron Comptroller's is 95%+. I will check them next time we get some sun around here. It looks like a week of clouds and rain/snow in Maine.

Thanks for this. The word "hot" is meaningless as it's based on a person's perception.

No one has shown reduced output due to the cc getting hot so as you have shown, its just a perception thing.