What Mini-Split did you use, and Why?

[gotbeans]

I see the Aura has a much higher SEER and EER rating than the Leto. For a couple hundred dollars more.

This one? https://www.amazon.com/Senville-24000-SENA-24HF-Energy-Conditioner/dp/B09TBC25P6/

I was looking at this one which has a 38 SEER rating, almost double what most of the stuff in this thread is (minus this aura series one you said)

Innovair Air Conditioner Inverter Ductless Wall Mount Mini Split Heat Pump | 9000 BTU | Elite Series| 38 SEER High Efficiency Air Conditioner

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signaturesolar.com

I did some reading on the SEER though it is new to me (never looked at AC stuff before). As far as I see it is a linear curve so 40 seer is half the power usage of a 20 seer and able to cool the same amount. (as an example)

I think that should be well worth it then, as you can run two of the units and not have to upgrade your battery / inverter etc?

 

[sunsurfer]

I personally am looking more at the EER rating. Since it will be in the hottest part of the home all the time, and constantly battling the heat my inverters will be producing. SEER and heat ratings mean nothing to me, personally.

The 10ft line set is actually perfect for me, because the outdoor unit is literally going on the same wall as the indoor unit.

This is the circuit board inside the outdoor unit? That can't be very smart. Definitely will keep an eye out for that.

Is there any significant design improvements with the larger display remote?

If memory serves, CEER is a rating of BTU/W with outdoor ambient at 95F vs SEER (seasonal adjusted) is more elusive.

I will snap a photo of the circuit board when I get a chance. Not sure about any improvements with the larger remote screen. The larger screen is more popular so likely will have more info/support going forward.

 

[gotbeans]

The EER of the innovair is a lot less impressive. 16.7 vs the aura's 16.2

>A room air conditioner's efficiency is measured by the energy efficiency ratio (EER). The EER is the ratio of the cooling capacity (in British thermal units (Btu) per hour) to the power input (in watts). The higher the EER rating, the more efficient the air conditioner.

If memory serves, CEER is a rating of BTU/W with outdoor ambient at 95F vs SEER (seasonal adjusted) is more elusive.

yea looks like it from what I looked up https://www.energy.gov/energysaver/room-air-conditioners they don't mention 95F but several other sites do.

So for the most part this is more important for strictly AC usage?

 

[RCinFLA]

Interesting. I didn't know the EEVs could close like that.

They often do not close down completely, especially after they have been used for a while.

Even though you have variable speed compressor, you still have a compressor larger than needed for reduced operating zones so there is some efficiency degradation.

More chance of springing a refrigerant leak causing whole distribution to go down. Poor compression copper line connections are primary source of leaks.

Mini-split efficiency rely on their improvement in efficiency when full btu capacity is not needed.

Mini-splits at full btu output are usually less efficient than a conventional air conditioner so if you have a small unit on a large area that runs at maximum most of the time you will not see an improvement in electrical consumption over a conventional air conditioner.

- Mini-splits have electrical loss in their three-phase inverter, up to 10% electrical loss on power to compressor when operating at maximum btu output.
- Mini-splits often have smaller outside heat exchanger coils size (conventional cooling condenser) resulting in higher head pressure needed from compressor that takes more compressor power.
- Many reverse cycle mini-splits have expansion valve in the outside unit, not by indoor coils, resulting in greater btu loss on copper line to indoor cooling coils.

Breakeven on these losses is typically when unit is operating at 70-80% of rated btu's.

 

[sunsurfer]

If any one has a good link for explaining EER/CEER/SEER ratings please post. I have not had much luck searching. Lots of conflicting info more then anything else.

 

[gotbeans]

If any one has a good link for explaining EER/CEER/SEER ratings please post. I have not had much luck searching. Lots of conflicting info more then anything else.

What you looking for? How reputable? energy.gov has some info but not a bunch with charts & graphs like I'd like
Some stuff you can get good info though like https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/files/guide_to_home_heating_cooling.pdf
specifically:

By upgrading
from SEER 9 to SEER 14, you can reduce your energy consumption by more
than 35%. If you are paying $100 per month in direct cooling costs, you could
reduce your monthly utility bill by up to $35 by switching to the SEER 14 rated
air conditioning system.

which gives us some numbers to work with

 

[sunsurfer]

What you looking for? How reputable? energy.gov has some info but not a bunch with charts & graphs like I'd like
Some stuff you can get good info though like https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/files/guide_to_home_heating_cooling.pdf
specifically:

which gives us some numbers to work with

It would just be nice to know the actual test parameters to get the ratings. The numbers don't do much in real world other then side by side comparison if you don't know how they got em.

Of course, some will cheat/fudge the number either way.

 

[gotbeans]

It would just be nice to know the actual test parameters to get the ratings. The numbers don't do much in real world other then side by side comparison if you don't know how they got em.

Of course, some will cheat/fudge the number either way.

Yea LEDs have that issue. There's no enforcement on any ratings at all so any lumens, color etc can be made up.
From that PDF:

SEER equals the cooling output
of a system divided by its overall
power consumption during the cooling
season (i.e., the warm part of the year).
EER is similar except it measures the
“instantaneous” efficiency rather than
over an entire season. Window units
use EER, while central air condition-
ing systems use both SEER and EER.
The higher the SEER and EER ratings,
the more energy-efficient the system

I thought that was good to know, doesn't make SEER as bad as it seemed to be from the post on the other page.
As you said though if the numbers are made up who knows. Though the innovair one compares itself to their other products so seems good to me so far. Still probably the one I will buy unless something else comes up in here

 

[RCinFLA]

SEER test parameters are not particularly demanding.

An air conditioner in Phoenix, Az vs. Miami, Fl sees very different environments.

SEER label on AC equipment is essentially the result of tests performed in a laboratory setting that serves to simulate an 'averaged seasonal' cooling" environment across the country.

SEER testing AC equipment environment is at;

constant indoor temperature of 80°F at 50% relative humidity
outdoor temperature of 82°F at 39% relative humidity,

Outside humidity does not matter much, but outside temperature and indoor humidity have a large impact.

Converting water vapor to water takes a lot of btu's, so when indoor humidity is high less btu's is going into air temp reduction.

High outdoor temperature causes condenser pressure of refrigerant to rise resulting in higher compressor output pressure required that consumes greater compressor power.

If you live in Phoenix, Az you want an outside unit with largest condenser coil area for 104+ degs F outside temps.

If you live in Miami, Fl you want a variable speed air handler to reduce air flow across evaporator coil to enable faster dehumidification.

 

[Browneye]

3 Mrcool diy mini split heat pumps. Cosco had them on sale for $1200 each. Easy to install and they heat and cool the whole house. They are very efficient compared to the old window unit we had. They are also very quiet.

Same - three of them. Mr. Cool DIY FTW.
If you're installing yourself, without an hvac pro, this is hands down the best way to go.
If you buy the tools to do a custom lineset, vac, test, charge and turn up, you still don't have a warranty cuz they won't support a DIY install. You might get a guy to do that for you for a few hundred bucks - you do the main install, he turns it on and signs your warranty doc. I found a local guy that's really cheap and honest, helped me when my lineset leaked - Ingrams replaced the air handler and lineset.

We absolutely love ours. Ingram Water and Air is the place to get one, and they stand behind the product. The are the primary distributor for the importer - Mr. Cool - out of Miami. My assumption is they bring containers of them in.

I would recommend a 12K BTU unit for your garage. You'll like being able to punch it up and cool down quickly, and it's 120V so easy to pull a circuit from your panel for it. They work just awesome.
A window unit is a way inferior solution compared to a mini-split...hands down.

 

[Crowz]

Another tip which some have mentioned doing in this thread I think but I wanted to stress.

Use sealant on the connections for the ductless units. ESPECIALLY the low side. I learned from experience that the low side loves to leak when in heat mode usually at the compressor unit. If you run it with very low outside temps they seem to be prone to leaking at that connection.

Usually starts on the second winter season after the install. Watch for oily looking residue at the connection.

 

[StuartV]

I've been looking at mini splits here in the UK I'm a bit confused with the power usage.

A lot of them show the output at say 3kw, but then also shows usage at say 750watts.

With your experiences, what is the average watts usage of a 9-12BTU mini split? Could I run one off my 3Kw inverter?

Many thanks ?

 

[gotbeans]

9-12btu not kw? I see 9 amps at 120volt as being "max" so <1000 watts probably

 

[Shimmy]

This sounds like something might be wrong with the install/setup. Each zone has an electronic expansion valve (EEV) that meters the refrigerant to the coils that are in use (and prevents sending refrigerant to the ones not in use). The compressor is variable speed (and the condenser fan too) so it only should be running to meet the demand of the single head calling for heat. If the EEV is closed, how are you getting refrigerant flow in the zones not calling for heat?

But yes, not being able to heat and cool is certainly a drawback, because the reversing valve is upstream of the EEVs

Once you hit minimum turn-down of the compressor then the system the EEV is of less utility... which is why the multi-head units are inherently worse if you just have one of three running-- minimum output might still be full output for one head. Also, the control algorithm for the EEVs are very limited. They are optimized for a specific sequence and anything else is a challenge.

 

[RCinFLA]

I've been looking at mini splits here in the UK I'm a bit confused with the power usage.

A lot of them show the output at say 3kw, but then also shows usage at say 750watts.

With your experiences, what is the average watts usage of a 9-12kw mini split? Could I run one off my 3Kw inverter?

Many thanks ?

For reverse cycle units they often have electric heating elements to help in defrosting outside unit. Without enough periodic defrosting the outside coils can turn into a block of ice.



Some have heaters in indoor unit although on a mini-split that is a little risky for safety if heater has a run away situation on an indoor unit that just has a plastic casing.

Most units go back to cooling mode periodically to defrost outside unit. Inside unit during defrost either has to put out cool air or turn on indoor electric heating element to compensate for cooling mode during defrost.

Anyway, the short answer to your question is they can have a higher peak electrical consumption when they turn on defrosting heating elements.

 

[Bob B]

Hope I can ask a question here without side tracking the thread.

I'm looking for a DIY install mini split also .... I tend to avoid China products and generally Japanese products.
Are the Japanese brands any better?
I think it would be Daikin, Fujitsu, Mitsubishi, and Panasonic .... maybe others. Are any of these actually manufactured in Japan?

 

[dcg9381]

For reverse cycle units they often have electric heating elements to help in defrosting outside unit. Without enough periodic defrosting the outside coils can turn into a block of ice.

This is very important in cold climates. The "cold weather" performance of different units can be very substantial. I have a Daikin - I've actually installed 3. I chose them over Mr. Cool as they were less expensive and I was told that their copper was thicker. I'm in a "very warm" state, but when temps hit the 20s, their BTU heating capacity drops massively. Even with reverse cycle, they get pretty frosty (although nothing as bad as that photo).

IF you're in a cold area, make sure you get one rated for cold weather performance. Mitsu hyper-heat is a known good unit in the cold. I'm sure there are others.

Mr. Cool's biggest advantage is a "consumer friendly" warranty.

 

[RCinFLA]

Are the Japanese brands any better?
I think it would be Daikin, Fujitsu, Mitsubishi, and Panasonic .... maybe others. Are any of these actually manufactured in Japan?

Daikin, Fujitsu, and Mitsubishi are some of the best mini-splits. Don't have experience with Panasonic but I am guessing they just slap their brand name on another manuf. unit like many U.S. companies do.

 

[Bob B]

Daikin, Fujitsu, and Mitsubishi are some of the best mini-splits. Don't have experience with Panasonic but I am guessing they just slap their brand name on another manuf. unit like many U.S. companies do.

How about the pioneer brand US made product?

 

[dcg9381]

How about the pioneer brand US made product?

Pfft. We have a major AC manufacturer in my state. Even they import their mini-splits and rebrand them.