Would you opt for a miniature LiFePO4 pouch cell over a standard LiFePO4 prismatic battery?

[MartinBe]

Small-sized batteries are gaining popularity, and I'm currently considering purchasing a LiFePO4 battery. I'm drawn to the compact form factor, but I've noticed that many of these smaller batteries use pouch cells instead of prismatic cells. I'm aware that some EV manufacturers use prismatic cells while others prefer pouch cells, possibly for cost considerations but both seem good. I'm wondering if pouch cells are a reliable choice, or if prismatic cells are significantly better. Is it safe in the long run to invest in a small-sized battery with pouch cells, or should I lean towards considering the prismatic?

 

[Solar Guppy]

Prismatic are basically the same just as an extra metal shell compared to pouch, when installed in container pouches are no different from performance / longevity view point.

 

[hwy17]

Pouch cells can make sense when professionally engineered and meticulously assembled.

For crude DIY projects or cheaply made prebuilt batteries I would want prismatic.

 

[LydMekk]

I won't touch pouch cells, either in premade or DIY batteries.

 

[timselectric]

No pouches for me.

 

[Rednecktek]

I'll take them as long as there is no significant price difference, but I'm not in a position where I am willing to pay a big markup for the "Small Form Factor" feature.

 

[webbbn]

Where are you seeing "small form factor" with pouch cells? AFIK, the internals are all going to be the same. The pouch cells are just grouped into smaller (but lower capacity) pouches, which are typically grouped into larger cells and packed into a protective shell, just like prismatic cells.

I've seen some interesting designs that use a PCB over a box full of pouch cells, but I don't think I would choose that over just bolting together a few prismatic cells for a DIY.

 

[cs1234]

Where are you seeing "small form factor" with pouch cells? AFIK, the internals are all going to be the same. The pouch cells are just grouped into smaller (but lower capacity) pouches, which are typically grouped into larger cells and packed into a protective shell, just like prismatic cells.

I've seen some interesting designs that use a PCB over a box full of pouch cells, but I don't think I would choose that over just bolting together a few prismatic cells for a DIY.

@BradCagle His review/teardown shows it having pouch cells.

 

[timselectric]

Delete this if you see it mods.. replying to myself.

You can edit your post to just say "deleted post".
That's what we all do.

 

[cs1234]

You can edit your post to just say "deleted post".
That's what we all do.

I should probably do that to most of my posts.. reduce the noise around here. ?

 

[webbbn]

It's hard to compare exactly a battery with BMS to just prismatic cells, but a back of the envelope calculation suggests they're at least similar.

If it's pre-packaged, why do you care?

 

[Rednecktek]

Where are you seeing "small form factor" with pouch cells? AFIK, the internals are all going to be the same

The pouch cell small form factor version gets rid of all the spacing foam that standard batteries use. If you watch any of Will's teardowns there's always big foam blocks on all sides. The pouch cell versions bring the pouches right to the box shell so you lose a couple inches on each side without those annoying blocks in there.

 

[webbbn]

The pouch cell small form factor version gets rid of all the spacing foam that standard batteries use. If you watch any of Will's teardowns there's always big foam blocks on all sides. The pouch cell versions bring the pouches right to the box shell so you lose a couple inches on each side without those annoying blocks in there.

Apparently I'm missing the point of the thread. I would be interested in knowing about any fundamental difference between pouch and prismatic cells, but this appears to be about construction of specific batteries.

 

[Rednecktek]

Yeah, it's just a matter of form factor rather than anything else.

 

[SupraSPL]

Manufacturers could make "compact" batteries from prismatics just by using appropriately sized cases. The 12V 300Ah (3840Wh) prefab batteries have foam spacers and about 30% is wasted space, because they are using the (probably cheaply available in bulk) standard size boxes for 12V 200ah to 12V 300ah batteries.

This size I assume eventually will become the standard because 12v 300Ah makes sense from a value standpoint and at 60 lbs still reasonable to carry or move around when needed. Maybe pouch cells could reduce the size further but I don't think so.



OR cram 12V 400Ah into the standard size case (86 lbs) which is too heavy for many people to safely carry.

 

[Brucey]

@BradCagle His review/teardown shows it having pouch cells.

Can basically fit three 12V 100Ah mini (pouch style) batteries in the same space taken by two "standard" size 100Ahs, though I think the minis are a smidge bit taller:

 

[Brucey]

I'll take them as long as there is no significant price difference, but I'm not in a position where I am willing to pay a big markup for the "Small Form Factor" feature.

Pricing generally seems to show about a $20 premium for a mini versus standard (~$250 versus ~$270).

 

[MartinBe]

Alright, I'm currently in the market for a 100AH battery that's both affordable and reliable. I've come across some positive reviews and even watched a few videos where Will mentions that these batteries are essentially clones but exceptionally well-made and perform quite decently. However, I'd like to avoid getting into a debate about this.

I'm at a point where I need to make a decision, and if both versions offer similar performance and safety, I'm willing to invest an extra $20 to go with the mini version. My concern is that the mini version is relatively new, only around for about a year or so, and I haven't come across many long-term user reviews yet. Furthermore, I have concerns about the safety of the mini version, particularly regarding the potential for overheating, burning, or even exploding.

So, I'm curious to know if anyone has any personal experiences or stories to share about the mini version that might sway my decision away from the prismatic version.

Here are the links for reference:
Mini Version:
Link to the Mini Version
Prismatic version:
Link to the Prismatic version

 

[Rabbit]

I bought a couple Li-Time Mini 100's the day they came out, because I'm older and weight matters. In my personal setup, size matters as well. The minis have been cycling as part of my bank ever since then-- and I'm not sure exactly how long ago that was-- without problems. In terms of everyday real-world performance I can't distinguish any important differences between them and two slightly older full-sized prismatic 100ah Li-Times I also own. (Note that I haven't done instrumented testing. I'm talking general overall impressions here.) While I don't plan to buy any more batteries anytime soon, if I did I would certainly choose to pay a little more for the minis so long as my experiences and their reputation remains positive. Indeed, the thing probably most likely to persuade me to buy more batteries would be for the makers to apply this same design principle to larger batteries. Will my experiences and the mini's reputation remain positive? No one can yet know. All I can say is that so far they're my favorites.

 

[Solar Guppy]

Not recommending this, but I have been following pricing and across the board prices have been falling

Here is the current low cost 100Ah 12V battery on amazon at $219 with free delivery