Xuba Electronics: DEAL - 280AH LiFePo4 cells. Purchase & Review

[BiduleOhm]

RE: My original problem cell, I moved it from position 8 to position 6, swapping the cells; and the problem followed my swap as per details from my Chargery BMS8T info. pages. I have not tried that yet on worse new replacement cell, yet.

Ok, then you seems extremely unlucky.

Did you send back the original defective cell?

 

[Capt Bill]

How exactly did you integrate the replacement cell into the pack? Did you Parallel Top Balance the cells again? Did you ever Parallel Top Balance the cells?

2nd reply: I will top balance before my next test cycle. I can now see my cells may not have been perfectly balanced; as my newly swapped (Xuba Replacement Fix) cell is most recently taking a charge to match up voltage (had .039 lesser volts after my previous testing cycles ). I have some slight hope that could make a difference. I will test further, and include moving my suspected replacement cell to different location in battery pack to also get a contrast test of my BMS Info. ... I will then let you all know with fuller documentation. If my original conclusion was off base, that will be a big lesson, especially to me. ... Also, I have not yet contacted Xuba. I will perform further testing to a fuller conclusion, and share that here for any further lessons feedback, first. Thanks, Bill

 

[Capt Bill]

Ok, then you seems extremely unlucky.

Did you send back the original defective cell?

Ok, then you seems extremely unlucky.

Did you send back the original defective cell?

On original defective cell that nosed down to 2.5v early; at what my Chargery BMS8T indicated was about 170Ah on a 280 Ah cell; Xuba did not require me to return that original cell. It was a possibility in part of my discussion with Amy. I had let her know I would not appreciate having to pay for such a return, and then think the info. (documentation of key pictures from my BMS Display pages info.) I supplied (plus my offer for more if requested/ and I could have also further tested that below par cell) ... that ended up good enough back then. So, Xuba did stand behind their sale to me back then. :+) Added note: It takes 6 to 8 weeks for sea freight shipping from China to reach my Northern California door; so that cell has been in my battery pack (letting it work, while also limiting it to 170 Ahs). I have it on a 20 amp draw down Ah test as I write this. I plan to charge it and drain it to further test it for my further DIY education. I think my high amp draw testing may be a better test on these 280 Ah LiFePO4s than lower 20 amp draw test with that 180 or 200 watt fan unit, for an Ah Test. I wonder how or if the results might differ when testing a 280 Ah cell with 20 amp draw down for full test vs varible with up to 100 amp or more draws the draw down to see which cell hits the 2.5v low limit cell voltage first. I really like how my Chargery BMS8T, after getting dialed to properly show amp hours of battery bank, can measure and provided me allot of info. which I used for testing my batteries while running my my house on that battery bank without solar input.

 

[BiduleOhm]

Ok, then what you can do is put the two bad cells in parallel to make one good cell. Not ideal of course but at least the whole pack will not be limited to the bad cell capacity anymore

 

[Sgt Raven]

2nd reply: I will top balance before my next test cycle. I can now see my cells may not have been perfectly balanced; as my newly swapped (Xuba Replacement Fix) cell is most recently taking a charge to match up voltage (had .039 lesser volts after my previous testing cycles ). I have some slight hope that could make a difference. I will test further, and include moving my suspected replacement cell to different location in battery pack to also get a contrast test of my BMS Info. ... I will then let you all know with fuller documentation. If my original conclusion was off base, that will be a big lesson, especially to me. ... Also, I have not yet contacted Xuba. I will perform further testing to a fuller conclusion, and share that here for any further lessons feedback, first. Thanks, Bill

It may turn out you got the short straw, twice. But it does seem to be a important step in matching a group of cells before building a battery. Most of the people posting about a problem cell skipped that step. I not sure why charging the cells separately to 3.65V is different than Parallel Top Balancing them together. But it does seem to matter.

 

[Ampster]

I not sure why charging the cells separately to 3.65V is different than Parallel Top Balancing them together. But it does seem to matter.

I believe that physics would suggest that parallel top balancing would be more accurate compared to multiple charge events stopped by a machine or human. I do not think a machine or human could be as accurate as the voltage equilibrium achieved when cells are charged in parallel.

 

[Sgt Raven]

I believe that physics would suggest that parallel top balancing would be more accurate compared to multiple charge events stopped by a machine or human. I do not think a machine or human could be as accurate as the voltage equilibrium achieved when cells are charged in parallel.

I can connect the dots and see it matters. But I can't scientifically explain why.
Just thought of this. Does parallel top balancing matter to a group of LFP batteries?

I know that it was recommended to replace LA batteries as a group, not individually.
That the older batteries would drag the new one down.

 

[JoeHam]

Most of the people posting about a problem cell skipped that step.

I don't think that is a fact and we certainly cannot say that with any number of self reported problems. The people who didn't balance and don't have a problem generally don't show up complaining about how well their batteries work .

However, ALL of the people who reported bloated or puffed a cell did attempt to top balance however. It can be argued if they did it properly or not but again that is an unknown.

The risk of a catastrophic loss of one cell during top balance, which has been reported more than once was enough reason for me to NOT do an initial balance. IMHO the balance is to hopefully extend the life of your cells while risking ending their life, which is rare but certainly seen a number of times.

I would advocate using an adequately sized BMS to keep the cells in line over their entire lifetime as the best cost/benefit option.

Of course people should make their own choices and live with the consequences.

For me, if I leave perhaps 1000 cycles on the table while not risking a catastrophic loss of one cell is the choice I live with.

 

[John Frum]

Ok, then what you can do is put the two bad cells in parallel to make one good cell. Not ideal of course but at least the whole pack will not be limited to the bad cell capacity anymore

Just like my topology from another thread

 

[ArthurEld]

I don't think that is a fact and we certainly cannot say that with any number of self reported problems. The people who didn't balance and don't have a problem generally don't show up complaining about how well their batteries work .

However, ALL of the people who reported bloated or puffed a cell did attempt to top balance however. It can be argued if they did it properly or not but again that is an unknown.

The risk of a catastrophic loss of one cell during top balance, which has been reported more than once was enough reason for me to NOT do an initial balance. IMHO the balance is to hopefully extend the life of your cells while risking ending their life, which is rare but certainly seen a number of times.

I would advocate using an adequately sized BMS to keep the cells in line over their entire lifetime as the best cost/benefit option.

Of course people should make their own choices and live with the consequences.

For me, if I leave perhaps 1000 cycles on the table while not risking a catastrophic loss of one cell is the choice I live with.

Everyone says you have to use a BMS to protect your batteries but most of the serious problems I see are people trying to use a BMS.
I don't hear anyone saying that they screwed up their batteries because they didn't use a BMS.
Somebody had to say it.
I plan to use a BMS

 

[John Frum]

Everyone says you have to use a BMS to protect your batteries but most of the serious problems I see are people trying to use a BMS.
I don't hear anyone saying that they screwed up their batteries because they didn't use a BMS.
Somebody had to say it.
I plan to use a BMS

If I screwed up my battery by not using a bms I would probably keep that to myself.

 

[Steve_S]

Hahaha, I would say that 80% of the people who mess up will NEVER Admit it. 50% of those will deflect the blame on something else as well (but not own their fingers, Ohhh Noooo).

Far too many people get the ideation that a BMS can FIX cells - NO IT CAN'T !
Passive or Active Balancing cannot fix defects either, yet some want to insist that it can. Sorry NOPE does not work that way....

A Heap of Fooey is addressed by Will Prowse HERE: A MUST WATCH BY EVERYONE IMO !

 

[John Frum]

2nd reply: I will top balance before my next test cycle. I can now see my cells may not have been perfectly balanced; as my newly swapped (Xuba Replacement Fix) cell is most recently taking a charge to match up voltage (had .039 lesser volts after my previous testing cycles ). I have some slight hope that could make a difference. I will test further, and include moving my suspected replacement cell to different location in battery pack to also get a contrast test of my BMS Info. ... I will then let you all know with fuller documentation. If my original conclusion was off base, that will be a big lesson, especially to me. ... Also, I have not yet contacted Xuba. I will perform further testing to a fuller conclusion, and share that here for any further lessons feedback, first. Thanks, Bill

Capt Bill I humbly suggest if you have not already you should run an charge and capacity test cycle on the cell that Xuba didn't want back.
See how much capacity you get.
If its significantly more than you expect(got before) then it suggests your methodology or equipment may be a problem.
I think you have indicated that you got 3 lemons, 2 of which were make goods.
Any company that I worked for the 2nd lemon would invoke a process audit and get walked through the process.
The 3rd lemon would be cigarette and blindfold time for somebody.

 

[Ampster]

Does parallel top balancing matter to a group of LFP batteries?

I don't think the batteries care one way or the other. What matters to me as the user is that they are balanced at the top so I can take them to 3.4 or 3.45 every day. I rarely go below 50% SOC so any uneveness at the bottom is trivial.

How one gets to that equilibrium at the top doesn't matter. It is the end goal that really matters.

 

[Capt Bill]

Capt Bill I humbly suggest if you have not already you should run an charge and capacity test cycle on the cell that Xuba didn't want back.
See how much capacity you get.
If its significantly more than you expect(got before) then it suggests your methodology or equipment may be a problem.
I think you have indicated that you got 3 lemons, 2 of which were make goods.
Any company that I worked for the 2nd lemon would invoke a process audit and get walked through the process.
The 3rd lemon would be cigarette and blindfold time for somebody.

I got only one lemon for sure, plus a major lesson on how important top balancing is (for a real test of my replacement cell). If I have a second lemon which I have reason to think I do not,... I will let you know with documenation of my testing procedure and results. ... I will soon be testing my 280 Ah replacement with a more accurate test after top balancing (that I previously skipped). I will let you know how that turns out. :+)

 

[Deleted member 9967]

It's been almost 2 months since my purchase and still no batteries. I'm getting really worried. Alibaba autocompleted my order today and I lost my Trade Assurance ...

And I live not far from 2 international harbours (Antwerp and Zeebrugge).

Mine were shipped almost immediately. I got lucky and got on the very next shipment which left something like 3 days after I ordered and yet because of customs it still took 2 months before I got mine.
If however you just missed a shipment then it takes a little while to fill up another container before it is shipped.
So don't worry. It will come, it i just very slow at time is all.
Part of the thing about getting the cells at a cheaper price is the waiting time.
Annoying I know in this era of instant everything, but it i what it is.
So relax, do other stuff. And next thing you know it will show up.

Heck, even Walmart is delayed in filling out local order online.

EDIT: LOL OOPS. What popped up here for me was Metamorphos problem. Sorry for this post. But maybe it can help someone else wondering and waiting.
Sorry Metamorphos.
Anyhow, still Amy at Xuba is great to me.

 

[Capt Bill]

Heads Up: I got a 2nd Bad Roll of Dice on my Replacement Battery from Xuba: It took a couple of months via sea freight, & then Fedex to my California door. I have been busy on other projects (installed a couple of Pioneer brand 12000 BTU Mini Split heat pumps), and slowed down by cycles of smoke from nearby forest fires, and hot weather on top of my age in Northern California. Re my earlier 8 x 280 Ah LiFePO$ Battery purchase from Xuba via Amy; ... I just integrated the new replacement battery I got from Xuba to my 24v 280 Ah battery Bank. Xuba was kind enough to send me a replacement after I documented how one of my 8 batteries purchase from them got down to 2.5 volts early (at about 170 AH). WOW, The Replacement Battery is worse than my only 170 Ah out of a 280 Ah rated original battery problem. That original problem in effect limited my whole 280 Ah battery bank to only 170 Ah when I purchased for 280 Ahs !

I will put my story together with pictures from my Chargery BMS8T Display (again) to document how this 280 Ah replacement battery from Xuba that I just put on line is worse than my original one 3.2v cell short in Ahs ... Battery Problem. My Current Thoughts: I think one or twice can be a mistake, but three times or more is a pattern. and Wow, ... Why Me?

Additional brief; before I document w pictures: I first tested my one 3.2 volt 280 Amp/Hr free of charge "Replacement Battery" on that fan unit that only draws 180 watts at about 20 amps (on one 3.2v cell). I only got 262 Ah going from full charge to 2.5 volt cut off. It had originally cut off at even less Ah (like 240 Ah, but I got a few more Amp Hours by dialing the Amp draw from 20 A to 10 A or less. The Bigger Test ( that I suggest considering with something like the Chargery BMS display details) was getting my new replacement battery integrated to my 24v Battery Bank, balanced in voltage with the other 7 cells, plus all fully charged. I then powered the sub panel of my house through my three LV2424 All In Ones (with no solar input, only battery draw), drawing various amounts of battery amps for may 10 to 100 or 120 amps; that included a 22 amp draw when running my evaporator cooler; a 43 amp draw when running one mini split heat pump in AC mode; and a 90 amp draw cycle when running two 12000 BTU mini split heat pumps in AC mode. My Chargery BMS8T cut out my 24v LiFePO4 battery bank Early via my relays / when this new replacement battery drained fast at it's low end to 2.5 volts; while the other good batteries cells were still showing about 3.25 v with plenty of Ah left in em. I was charging at 120 amps, well with the capabilities of these LiFePO4 batteries, but Also noticed from my Chargery Display Info. (I LIKE how I can cycle through several pages of detailed info.) that my 8 LiFePO4s batteries can also get out of balance at the upper end of my higher Amp Battery Charge Cycles / like when charging at 120 + amps. I thus reset my charge rate to about 60 amps or less, to get fully charged batteries all in balance before cycling another load test. I had hoped a second full charge and amp drain cycle might show different picture. Instead I have two battery bank drain cycles confirming to me I have a worse problem with this new replacement battery as compare to the orginal 280 Ah rated LiFePO4 that has only 170Ah ability. ... I hope more people are checking their Ah and comparing notes in this forum. Checking Amp/Hrs against rating ... sooner than later, ... might be a good idea. I will put in my picture documentation in awhile, as I will be assembling that for Xuba too. I wonder how Xuba might be responding to me on this one. I am not a happy camper about this roll of dice. Rolling with it while valuing this forum. ... Bill

BIG LESSON for me and maybe others: TOP BALANCING is important when swapping in a LiFePO4 battery cell. I have now confirmed to myself: My Replacement LiFePO4 cell that Xuba sent me for free, to replace one below par cell (one of eight purchased in April), IS GOOD and working properly now. Running my house off my fully charged 24v LiFePO4 battery bank at various amp draws from maybe 5 - 100 amps, down to a 22.5 V cut off, shows all my battery dropping in voltage closely together, and charging back up in a similar fashion. ... My Previous Heads Up statement above was a False Alarm. Thanks for the supportive feedback. ... Lesson Learned: Always Top Balance full set / and charge up to full when swapping in a replacement battery. DO NOT depend on voltage measure of new cell being close to the others when you swap in a New Replacement Cell :+)

 

[Sgt Raven]

BIG LESSON for me and maybe others: TOP BALANCING is important when swapping in a LiFePO4 battery cell. I have now confirmed to myself: My Replacement LiFePO4 cell that Xuba sent me for free, to replace one below par cell (one of eight purchased in April), IS GOOD and working properly now. Running my house off my fully charged 24v LiFePO4 battery bank at various amp draws from maybe 5 - 100 amps, down to a 22.5 V cut off, shows all my battery dropping in voltage closely together, and charging back up in a similar fashion. ... My Previous Heads Up statement above was a False Alarm. Thanks for the supportive feedback. ... Lesson Learned: Always Top Balance full set / and charge up to full when swapping in a replacement battery. DO NOT depend on voltage measure of new cell being close to the others when you swap in a New Replacement Cell :+)

Damn glad to hear this and confirm I am giving good advice about Top Balancing your cells. I'm sure it was a PIA to tear the battery apart to do it, but it is worth the effort in the end.

 

[Capt Bill]

Mine were shipped almost immediately. I got lucky and got on the very next shipment which left something like 3 days after I ordered and yet because of customs it still took 2 months before I got mine.
If however you just missed a shipment then it takes a little while to fill up another container before it is shipped.
So don't worry. It will come, it i just very slow at time is all.
Part of the thing about getting the cells at a cheaper price is the waiting time.
Annoying I know in this era of instant everything, but it i what it is.
So relax, do other stuff. And next thing you know it will show up.

Heck, even Walmart is delayed in filling out local order online.

EDIT: LOL OOPS. What popped up here for me was Metamorphos problem. Sorry for this post. But maybe it can help someone else wondering and waiting.
Sorry Metamorphos.
Anyhow, still Amy at Xuba is great to me.

Are you shippingto USA? and Did you get a FedEx or other shipping number for Xuba? If you have a shipping number (I wouldthink it would be in you Alibaba, Any- Xuba messages); I hope you went to trucker's web site to confirm your shipping number, and then put in request for updates for that shipment to your email or phone. ... That way, when your packages clear customs, you will know about it getting to trucker, and heading your way with est. time of arrival. Also, I would make sure you leave a message w Amy at Xuba clearly, simple as possible, about your concern that Alibaba maybe auto completed your order. Xuba seems to have a good reputation in this forum. Also, when you pay for Alibaba product with a USA based credit card, If the deal falls totally sour (doubt it will), you have way to protest at credit card holder bank, and likely retrieve your purchase money. I would not advise that route yet (harder to un-do). ... My two cents from only doing one set of Xuba batteries that took about two months to get to my door. ... Covid is a factor too.

 

[David S]

Chalk another win up for Amy. My cells arrived today, 29 days after placing my order. Haven't unpacked yet, but the packaging itself is impressive. 1 box for every two cells, super robust, foam wrapped and padded. I think you could have dropped these from 50' and they'd be fine. I'll update later with some unboxing pics and initial voltage testing. Time to re-read @FilterGuy's top balancing guide.