I doubt EVE would even bother with less than a thousand cells a month with regards to wholesaling. So they are probably working with a tier one distributor for the cells that don't conform to highest specs. Though I would also bet they have to sign an agreement with EVE for various legal reasons.
Xuba Electronics: DEAL - 280AH LiFePo4 cells. Purchase & Review
- Thread starter Steve_S
- Start date
I suspect this may be in the right ballpark more or less.
Steve_S
Offgrid Cabineer, N.E. Ontario, Canada
What are you people wasting your time Speculating, Theorizing and all this conjecture ? Seriously ?? I know, no more Soap Opera's on the Tube eh... FYI, XUBA / Luyuan are moving over 5K of cells a month, if you think they can't work out deals with manufacturers, you need to get a grip, really. WHAT'S IT MATTER IF YOU GET THE DEALS ? Is getting a Deal something to complain about ? IF YES, there are lots of businesses out that that will take your money and over charge you too.
Steve, I recognize that you are a very enthusiastic supporter of this seller and have built a relationship with them, but I suspect there is a more constructive, and good-faith way to make your point. And I would urge you to consider some of your own opinions and past statements and recognize that many of them are just as speculative as anything mused about above.
On the topic of deduction and speculation, you engage in much of it yourself (its nearly impossible not to in such an opaque market, where misrepresentation is common) you just usually don't explicitly state it. I try to state when the opinion I am giving is speculative or unconfirmed, not because I believe my opinion carries less or more weight than anyone else's, but because I think its important in a public forum to acknowledge for others when our knowledge is limited, and I try very hard not to overstate my opinions or misrepresent them as fact, and I think that anyone familiar with my posts knows I go out of my way to acknowledge gaps in my knowledge as well as our collective knowledge. I think the above is an example of that.
I think if we are honest here, we would all acknowledge that what we actually know, not just believe, or suspect, or hope, or want or fear to be true, of these sellers and this market, is extremely limited. This leaves three options, faith, skepticism, or trying to deduce as much as possible from the limited information we have and trying to ascertain more info where possible. It is an imperfect situation and a very murky market.
I suspect you feel me to be overly skeptical/cynical here, that's okay (and probably somewhat valid), we don't have to see eye to eye on everything (we agree on most topics I think) but we should be able to be respectful about differences in perspective/opinion. Personally, I feel you have something of a blind spot with regard to this particular seller and cell, and don't apply the same due diligence and logical caution that you normally would towards other grey market goods and resellers, and sometimes react defensively and dismissively towards non-positive information towards the cells or the seller.
I recall when I first brought up and recommended fixture/light cell compression a few months back, you responded in what came off as equally negative and dismissive manner to what was a reasonable discussion based on info derived from the datasheet, now we treat light-compression/fixture as the standard practice. I bring this up only to point out that it pays to not be overly dismissive or jump to conclusions.
There have been a handful of times throughout this thread, and the parallel (original Xuba thread), where you have responded with what comes across to me as unwarranted hostility and dismissiveness to less-than-positive information or perspectives from a number of people raising valid and-- in my eyes logical-- points. I don't think that sort of reaction benefits anyone.
On the topic of deduction and speculation, you engage in much of it yourself (its nearly impossible not to in such an opaque market, where misrepresentation is common) you just usually don't explicitly state it. I try to state when the opinion I am giving is speculative or unconfirmed, not because I believe my opinion carries less or more weight than anyone else's, but because I think its important in a public forum to acknowledge for others when our knowledge is limited, and I try very hard not to overstate my opinions or misrepresent them as fact, and I think that anyone familiar with my posts knows I go out of my way to acknowledge gaps in my knowledge as well as our collective knowledge. I think the above is an example of that.
I think if we are honest here, we would all acknowledge that what we actually know, not just believe, or suspect, or hope, or want or fear to be true, of these sellers and this market, is extremely limited. This leaves three options, faith, skepticism, or trying to deduce as much as possible from the limited information we have and trying to ascertain more info where possible. It is an imperfect situation and a very murky market.
I suspect you feel me to be overly skeptical/cynical here, that's okay (and probably somewhat valid), we don't have to see eye to eye on everything (we agree on most topics I think) but we should be able to be respectful about differences in perspective/opinion. Personally, I feel you have something of a blind spot with regard to this particular seller and cell, and don't apply the same due diligence and logical caution that you normally would towards other grey market goods and resellers, and sometimes react defensively and dismissively towards non-positive information towards the cells or the seller.
I recall when I first brought up and recommended fixture/light cell compression a few months back, you responded in what came off as equally negative and dismissive manner to what was a reasonable discussion based on info derived from the datasheet, now we treat light-compression/fixture as the standard practice. I bring this up only to point out that it pays to not be overly dismissive or jump to conclusions.
There have been a handful of times throughout this thread, and the parallel (original Xuba thread), where you have responded with what comes across to me as unwarranted hostility and dismissiveness to less-than-positive information or perspectives from a number of people raising valid and-- in my eyes logical-- points. I don't think that sort of reaction benefits anyone.
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I don't particularly care how their supply chain works. You will notice I didn't make any value judgments right?
I am however curious to how cells are coming to market so much below MSRP. Obviously the cells are good quality of course.
Understanding how this chain works would give us more insight into future disruptions, and pricing changes.
If I was relying on a regular supply of cells, I would be very interested in the details though. Businesses are made/broken on the weak links in supply chains.
I am however curious to how cells are coming to market so much below MSRP. Obviously the cells are good quality of course.
Understanding how this chain works would give us more insight into future disruptions, and pricing changes.
If I was relying on a regular supply of cells, I would be very interested in the details though. Businesses are made/broken on the weak links in supply chains.
ArthurEld
Solar Wizard
It would be interesting to know but the chain works like everything else. You buy from the reputable seller with the best price.
From what I gather after reading a lot of threads, people who buy from reputable sellers get the exact same product.
The boxes get destroyed and cells get damaged in transit. But I haven't heard of anyone saying they got used cells or known bad cells from Xuba.
If anything is wrong with the cells you get replacements for free.
All of the stories of shady business that I have seen were from small or unknown sellers.
But, I've got my first order of EVE cells coming Thursday. I bought from April at Deligreen. Only because Alibaba wouldn't take my credit card and Deligreen let me use Paypal. I wasn't trusty enough to pay cash. I was happy with the deal I made with Amy but we couldn't make it happen. So, now I'm happy with the deal I made with April. I don't expect any problem. Maybe I'll change my tune in a couple days but I doubt that very much.
From what I gather after reading a lot of threads, people who buy from reputable sellers get the exact same product.
The boxes get destroyed and cells get damaged in transit. But I haven't heard of anyone saying they got used cells or known bad cells from Xuba.
If anything is wrong with the cells you get replacements for free.
All of the stories of shady business that I have seen were from small or unknown sellers.
But, I've got my first order of EVE cells coming Thursday. I bought from April at Deligreen. Only because Alibaba wouldn't take my credit card and Deligreen let me use Paypal. I wasn't trusty enough to pay cash. I was happy with the deal I made with Amy but we couldn't make it happen. So, now I'm happy with the deal I made with April. I don't expect any problem. Maybe I'll change my tune in a couple days but I doubt that very much.
LFP has been available for at least half a decade at similar prices. There was a step improvement last year (concomitant with a step improvement in package density), and for sure the prices have improved over time, but "MSRP" is an inflated fiction. Like usual, no one is buying at that price.
Maybe your cells are on the same train as mine. I've asked Amy for an update.
Hopefully, customs will clear it soon and allow UPS to continue the journey (And the UPS tracking will work).
Once it's in the UPS facility, I think it will take only a few days to reach the Netherlands.
I just bought 72 cells and they shipped on Monday. I'm making x4 16s batteries. 2 batteries per system. Then I'll have 8 left over for spares or testing purposes. I also ordered x4 Chargery 16T 300A bms. Now the waiting game starts.
Edited to 300A
Edited to 300A
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Steve_S
Offgrid Cabineer, N.E. Ontario, Canada
HEADS UP !
Be advised that with cells in parallel the BMS will only read the AVERAGE of the cells which are in parallel.
The IR and Voltage readings for each BMS line will be averaged between the paralleled cells..
Cell-1 (B1-) is where the NEGATIVE Battery Lead out and cell-1 (B1+) also comes from that cell.
Cell-9 (B9) is to be paid special attention to as well, for the 9-16 second harness.
The bus bar between the two cell groups (B1-B8, B9-B16) is a point of potential issue, IF the busbar between 8+ and 9- is different (length wise) than the busbars used between cells such as 7+ to 8-. This can affect the Impedance Readings as busbar impedance has to be factored in.
Keeping Busbars consistent for material type, length & thickness is important as the busbars themselves can add resistance. BMS Harness wires should be the same length, as well as the Battery Wire Leads (+) & (-), from the battery pack are very strongly recommended to be the same length to the Battery Terminal Lugs.
TIP: A word on Factory supplied busbars. The holes are stamped out of the copper stock. This results in a slight raised edge (a burr) on one side of the busbars, be certain to use a small file to eliminate that as it can affect the contact between the cells pad & the bar itself. Believe it or not, THAT can and does cause problems for many people.
Shown Below is a standard 16 Cell 48V Block Format pack. The BusBar between 8+ & 9- is typically slightly longer than the rest between cells. This will vary depending on make/model of cells being used. A Standard 16S/48V straight pack would only use the standard same busbars across all cells.
Thanks for the info. The battery packs would all be 1p16s with 2 battery packs per system. So I won't have any parallel cells in a single pack. One system for me and one for my dad. I'm not sure yet if I go with the block format or the straight but I'm leaning toward the straight.
Another reason I want 2 battery packs per system is so that I can take one out to tinker with and it won't take my whole sytem down.
Steve_S
Offgrid Cabineer, N.E. Ontario, Canada
The two will also share Load & Charge if properly parallel wired. Two packs are not so hard to setup, get's a tad more complicated with more packs within a bank. Even more complex if you have different capacity packs within a bank, then you really need the thinking cap on and the electrical safety hip waders too... ;-)
Everyone is low or out of EVE cells for the moment.
Bob B
Emperor Of Solar
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2019
- Messages
- 8,633
Better look at this thread. https://diysolarforum.com/threads/received-280ah-cells-from-basen.13321/
idontknowwhatimdoing
New Member
- Joined
- Jul 6, 2020
- Messages
- 105
Would it be a bad idea to jump start a car with one of these batteries. Roughly 2C for a few seconds? (Skipping bms)
Ampster
Renewable Energy Hobbyist
You would need four of them in series. Be sure to use big jumper cables.
If I'm reading this table from the datasheet correctly, 2C would exceeds manufacturer recommendations, even for limited short bursts (30s):
Other cell manufacturers often have a higher permissible short-duration discharge rate, but I cant find anything in the EVE datasheet that references anything over 1C even temporarily. I would guess a short infrequent 2S burst of 2C would not be a big deal but maybe it would cause some amount of meaningful damage. Personally, I would not exceed the manufacturer specs unless it was a true emergency, but this is based on caution, not data.
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