Half price electric cars

[clayswen]

And as I have pointed out, I can stop and plug my car into theirs to give them some energy so they can make it to a power outlet somewhere.

What's the chances that my EV is out of charge on the side of the road 100s of miles in the middle of a trip, and there is another EV close by to come give me his charge? Then the question comes, would someone risk them not being able to make it to there next charging station to save you on the side of the road?

 

[G00SE]

And as I have pointed out, I can stop and plug my car into theirs to give them some energy so they can make it to a power outlet somewhere.

Like this is being touted as a reason why EVs are not worth it? Seriously?

No, that was a simple rebuttal to one point being made.
I’ve stated numerous times that I personally want an EV.
But I’m no clouded to think that they are ready for prime time for society.
In regards to your ability to plug in car to car, that’s pretty sweet. I don’t know that the capability is here for that in the states? I could be incorrect. Although, I imagine you’d then want to be a people person as that downtime with eachother is gonna take a lot longer than 2-5min.

 

[wattmatters]

This is my fear

This is universal to all modern vehicles, it is not an EV v ICE thing.

In the states most of those rural areas still contain tens of thousands of people that simply do not have the luxury of the interstate charging network, city public charging, or other.

I assume they have electricity? If so then fast charging infrastructure is a matter of time. Until then, if an EV is not suitable for someone's driving requirements, then stick with ICE. They will still be available for a long time.

My nearest fast charger is quite some drive away. It matters not as I plug in at home.

 

[G00SE]

This is universal to all modern vehicles, it is not an EV v ICE thing.

I won’t even buy a canbus equipped ICE vehicle because of this.
As long as fuel cars are sold I can keep mine running.
Time will tell, and I’m sure it’ll happen (user serviceable) but the current crop doesn’t seem remotely friendly for those that want to keep an ev operational in a decade or 2 out of their own garage

 

[clayswen]

I've never really looked into all the Tesla fires through the years. I remember seeing them on the news, but never really heard much else. What is the cause of the cars catching fire?

 

[wattmatters]

In regards to your ability to plug in car to car, that’s pretty sweet. I don’t know that the capability is here for that in the states?

Just needs V2L. Most EVs have that, Teslas being the notable exception (oddly).

Although, I imagine you’d then want to be a people person as that downtime with eachother is gonna take a lot longer than 2-5min.

It's not going to be a quick charge, for sure, just long enough to get them to a power outlet somewhere. Might only need a few miles. Might happen once in a lifetime. Might also make a new friend.

If however it's the idiot that's 100 miles from anything scenario, well their day is screwed. Most instances of running out of energy won't be anywhere near that far from a power outlet they can legitimately use.

Like stopping to help change a wheel.

Heck modern cars (ICEV and EV) have all sorts of issues like this. The lack of spare wheels is one. Had that with my last car, a Mercedes AWD SUV. I was dumb enough not to realise it did not have a spare. "Surely it has a spare?" I asked myself when I got a flat tyre in my fist week of ownership? No car in my life before did not. Inner sidewall damage, no fixing with a plug or goo.

Current car doesn't either, but at least I knew that and the space saver spare from my old Golf fits.

 

[wattmatters]

What is the cause of the cars catching fire?

I don't know the stats for the US.

In Australia EV Firesafe was set up to track incidents.

The agency has recorded six electric car fires in Australia since 2010. One vehicle was deliberately lit, another caught fire in a collision, while three more burnt when the area in which they were parked caught fire (damaged cars). The latter suggests a lack of de-energising the battery pack after accident.

The rate of fires is much higher with ICEV. The nature of fire in an NMC battery car however is very very nasty.

 

[teal95]

Lots of people don't understand that the EPA is FORCING the auto manufacturers to make EVs due to the underhanded way they're making them do it. CAFE standards are already beyond what any ICE that a customer would want can do. But EVs get counted as part of a manufacturers fleet for CAFE, but with some really cheaty calculations. First they ignore Carnot efficiency and just use the full thermal energy value of burning gasoline, not what can be recovered into mechanical energy, so they're already multiplying it's mpg by 2.5 Then they multiply that by 6.67, then average it into CAFE. So they say the average EV's getting 75 "mpg" when it's really only doing the gasoline energy equivalent of 30 mpg. So that 30 mpg equivalent EV gets averaged into CAFE as getting 500 mpg. Tesla is profitable because the EPA lets them sell those credits to other automakers to average out their ICE vehicles.

 

[NCislander]

How is this proof they are good cars in the United States?

What happens when you lose power and cannot heat the battery and charge at home?

You then drive down to a local charging station that might have power and do what? Wait 2 hours for the battery to warm up while tying up the charger so you can get up to 50% charge over a period of 4 hours?

Power will not go out at the house. Remember what forum this is? Solar Power...

 

[wattmatters]

We don't have gas stations 100 miles away. We have infrastructure for ICE vehicles (stations every few miles if not less), not for EVs (chargers long distances apart).

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the gas station has electricity.

So a stranded EV needs only a few miles if not less charge to get to such a station and ask if they could plug in. Offer some money for the use of power. They will be there a while so they can probably buy a meat pie, a can of coke and the local paper.

 

[G00SE]

Lots of people don't understand the the EPA is FORCING the auto manufacturers to make EVs due to the underhanded way they're making them do it. CAFE standards are already beyond what any ICE that a customer would want can do. But EVs get counted as part of a manufacturers fleet for CAFE, but with some really cheaty calculations. First they ignore Carnot efficiency and just use the full thermal energy value of burning gasoline, not what can be recovered into mechanical energy, so they're already multiplying it's mpg by 2.5 Then they multiply that by 6.67, then average it into CAFE. So they say the average EV's getting 75 "mpg" when it's really only doing the gasoline energy equivalent of 30 mpg. So that 30 mpg equivalent EV gets averaged into CAFE as getting 500 mpg. Tesla is profitable because the EPA lets them sell those credits to other automakers to average out their ICE vehicles.

I think that’s why cars keep getting bigger/bloatier too.
More mass has more lapse efficiency requirements. Make new requirements and the auto makers game the system again

 

[G00SE]

I’ll tell y’all this much, bucees definitely has the space to add a few dozen EV chargers at their gas stations

 

[Nobodybusiness]

EVs will play a part in helping the grid. Bi-directional charge stations will become more normal

Not normal yet like everything about EVs.

Immature batteries, Charging infrastructure and maintenance.

Call me back when it’s the same as ICE

 

[wattmatters]

Sir, respectfully, according to your image you average 13km monthly?
I’m not sure how relevant that is to 90% of drivers.

You missed the bit where I said:

Yesterday I built a phone dashboard for the car:

While I get the odo reading from the car, the daily/weekly/monthly/annual whatever distance is a calculated value and so it was only counting from the afternoon before when I built it. Here it is this morning having added drives since yesterday. Adding another 60 km this afternoon.



It'll reset midnight 1 April.

My drive this afternoon will be up the mountain and back down.

Fun thing with the car - it actually recharges the battery on the way back down and I never need to touch the brakes. It's all done with regen / one pedal driving. This is a ~9km mountain climb of ~ 8% grade. Brake disks and pads last a long time in EVs.

 

[G00SE]

@wattmatters precisely why I asked. I was perplexed. I figured since you just built it, that it wasn’t pulling months of data but the days since full charge section threw me off.

Edit: one thing that pisses me off in our dialogues is the vehicle access you and others have.
Our govt is too busy trying to tariff China to the stonage unsuccessfully and it limits our access to more companies/platforms

 

[wattmatters]

and maintenance

yeah changing the cabin filter, checking the brake cylinders, pumping up the tyres and filling up the washer fluid bottle is tricky AF

 

[Q-Dog]

You are missing the point. Some person that runs out of gas doesn't have to pay a tow truck 100s of dollars to drive them to the nearest charger. However far that may be. If a person runs out of gas they can have somone bring them a gas can and be gone. Apples and oranges to an EV stranded on the side of a road.

EVs don't need a gas can. You can tow an EV with the wheels on the ground and regen mode will add charge to the battery.

 

[wattmatters]

precisely why I asked

Edit: one thing that pisses me off in our dialogues is the vehicle access you and others have.

China is changing the paradigm. You are somewhat insulated from that, for better or for worse.

The EV options here have been pretty limited for a long time but it has changed a lot in the past 12 months and is accelerating.

 

[clayswen]

EVs don't need a gas can. You can tow an EV with the wheels on the ground and regen mode will add charge to the battery.

Just how far do I need to tow my out of charge EV to get a charge big enough to take off on its own and find a charging station?

 

[Q-Dog]

Just how far do I need to tow my out of charge EV to get a charge big enough to take off on its own and find a charging station?

How much gas do you need to dump into your ICE to get to the next gas station?