OFF GRID PERMIT?

[JRH]

Once Google and Facebook aggregate all the data on you, and your power consumption isn't sufficient to cook the rice and chicken you bought or power your EV for the distance GPS navigation logged, you're busted!

Certainly we need to tax you on photons used. Only rich people can afford solar, and it isn't fair poor people have to pay an electric bill.

I'm sometimes able to spot things in data, malfunction of equipment or other anomalies, based on understanding.
I heard a keynote talk from a Googler. He described AI being taught to examine photographs of retina, became able to detect diabetes damage better than an average eye doctor, then better than a specialist. Then given subject gender info to learn from, it also could determine gender to high 90's percentage, compared to eye doctors who were no better than a coin toss. Teaching vision systems to guide a car down the lane or a blind Boston Marathoner to follow a painted line worked similarly. Just train with examples, and it most of the time does a remarkably good job (without any understanding.)

All the power company or law enforcement would have to do is feed consumption patterns for many people and identify which were various types of violators, and AI could then rat you out. Whether someone has a grow house, guerilla solar, or conscientiously turns out the lights upon leaving a room, Big Brother can know all. (or at least think he does, and be correct with some statistical probability.)

Ya nailed that on…… spot on..

 

[JRH]

It might not be ‘real’ either.

It ain’t real… seen this 3 times in my life…. A wave may arrive ,but Water always finds level..

 

[Hedges]

 

[Darren67-72]

Agree with you!!!
I live on a 100+ year old farm..... the answer to the question of 'work/changes done without a permit ' would be "yes to all". You can laugh but I'm not falling for their trap either.

 

[12VoltInstalls]

was ANY work done with out a permit

I’m not into lying and i’d talk to an appropriate lawyer first for the $200 well spent but I know what I would do…

 

[Goboatingnow]

I'm off-grid. One thing I'm doing is powering up to 80% of my home rather than 100% (0 grid). This leaves a modest but ongoing, normal power bill making my address 'blend in'. At the same time, if grid is lost I can live 'just fine' at the 80% level - will just do without the hot tub.

I bring this up because I had a long career as a software development engineer who has worked at various times on algorithms to sift data and I can imagine a Power company setting alerts on 0 grid addresses... to investigate? charge extra fees? check permits?

Paranoid maybe!, but if not today maybe in the coming years....

Why would a retail provider care , I can choose from 6 retail providers , I switch every 12 months. None cares if I’m not connected or who I’m connected to

Once the grid has legally approved and connected me it never checks again

Paranoia needs a rationalise basis !

 

[Hedges]

Zero would suggest customer may have bypassed the meter.
Once on 35th avenue in Oakland I saw a pair of jumper cables hanging from the meter of a house.

I get $0 bills sometimes (prior credits pay whatever small charge) but eventually realized gas meter was logging zero. Tried to notify PG&E (I saw my PV panel easel had blown over and smashed the plastic SmartMeter mechanism), but the system replied "Can't confirm address." They eventually found and fixed it on their own. If meter was tampered with by customer, 12 months back billing is estimated by subsequent usage; if it was utility's fault, only 3 months back billing. I made sure my subsequent bills were near zero.

We are more likely to suffer from unintended consequences of programming, where the software was only checked with some sample data.

If California does implement a photon tax, then analysis of data patterns to detect undeclared PV systems could be profitable.

 

[OffGridInTheCity]

Why would a retail provider care , I can choose from 6 retail providers , I switch every 12 months. None cares if I’m not connected or who I’m connected to

Once the grid has legally approved and connected me it never checks again

In my location, there is only 1 provider.
With respect, I routinely get unsolicited emails that are results of parsing my personal data such as "we notice you're power use increased (and they show my power use chart) here's are some tips"... This is currently primitive, but it will only get more sophisticated. Occupancy permits can be denied if there's no power at an address in my city.

Paranoia needs a rationalise basis !

We're long past the idea info is private and that businesses and government have our best interests at heart.

 

[Goboatingnow]

With respect, I routinely get unsolicited emails that are results of parsing my personal data such as "we notice you're power use increased (and they show my power use chart) here's are some tips"...

I get these from my retail electricity provider , but then they are the entity reading my meter ? No one else has statutory access to that data under GDPR rules.

This is currently primitive, but it will only get more sophisticated. Occupancy permits can be denied if there's no power at an address in a city.

Occupancy permits , ? If I don’t want electricity nobody forces me to have it

We're long past the idea info is private and that businesses and government have our best interests at heart.

Some of us are not yet at that cynical end of that pipeline, I agree business doesn’t have my interests at heart but many gov officials have done tremendous work to sort out tax rebates , social welfare entitlements and so forth , I don’t yet damm them all.

 

[peakbagger]

Folks forget permits are also intended for life safety. Fire departments who might respond to a fire have the option of just standing back and letting it burn and keeping adjoining structures from getting involved if they do not feel they can make the scene safe.

 

[Ampster]

Occupancy permits , ? If I don’t want electricity nobody forces me to have it

Nobody can force you to use it. However, in many jurisdictions people may be required to connect to the grid, if it is available. As mentioned earlier, it is considered a safety issue.

 

[Goboatingnow]

Nobody can force you to use it. However, in many jurisdictions people may be required to connect to the grid, if it is available. As mentioned earlier, it is considered a safety issue.

What, that’s a form of police state , live free I say. I’m not required to connect to any utilities , even though all these utilities run past my door. I can drop a bore hole for water etc. ( well not much point as the public water is free at the point of delivery )

The only thing I get stuck for since 2016 is a 120 a year property tax. I do take the grid , but have registered as an objector to a smart meter install.

 

[Ampster]

What, that’s a form of police state ,

In many ways I am a Libertarian but I do believe in some of the ordinances that protect my health and safety. I would not want to live next to a fire trap or a pig farm but I have a few chickens as do my neighbors. I still enjoy many freedoms compared to many other countries. I code not to live in a nearby senior community with lots of rules.

 

[Goboatingnow]

In many ways I am a Libertarian but I do believe in some of the ordinances that protect my health and safety. I would not want to live next to a pig farm but I have a few chickens as do my neighbors. I still enjoy many freedoms compared to many other countries.

Why would any state force you to connect to a grid. It’s that’s the thinking that’s very close to a police state in my view , as such thinking tends to pervade other areas. It’s no better where community rules “ force “ you to cut your lawn etc.

Live free from such rules I say

I’m not entering politics but as I lived in the US for several years , it’s one of most rule obsessed places on the planet in the developed world. There are rules for everything and enforcement to see you follow them. I’m not surprised there are lots of groups struggling to live “ off the grid “

Where I live now , their would be uproar if a electricity company suggested controlling your thermostat or forced anyone to connect to the grid ( or disconnect ) there was a near riot when it was suggested we pay for public water . Few restrictions on solar installs , unless grid tied ( and these are mainly “ code” issues ) , also the state doesn’t have building inspectors , property inspectors or any such form of legal oversight.

The only people with suits on , that knock on my door are LDS evangelists. !. As an atheist I surely ain’t following their rules either

 

[peakbagger]

The Libertarians may be interested in this book https://www.vox.com/policy-and-poli...mpshire-libertarians-matthew-hongoltz-hetling NH is ground zero for the free state project and the laws of unintended consequences for any action have in been effect for this project. The black bears just add a really big unintended consequence.

This unintended consequence was in the news lately https://newhampshirebulletin.com/2022/08/10/gunstock-a-reopening-and-a-reckoning/

The Town That Went Feral

When a group of libertarians set about scrapping their local government, chaos descended. And then the bears moved in.

newrepublic.com

And another one https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterg...tle-to-save-public-education/?sh=4b4d0b579b3e

Lots of land for sale for cheap in Grafton NH, ground zero for the free state project these days, the realtors keep the list prices up for the clueless out of staters but actual sales are rare once people figure out what they are buying into.

BTW the recent news of controlling thermostats was a deal that the consumer signed up for, in exchange for a reduced power bill they voluntarily agreed to allow the utility to reduce demand on occasion. No one put a gun to their head to sign the deal, they did so voluntarily. If they were stupid enough to sign the deal, they do not deserve any sympathy. If they do not like the deal they signed, they can always change their rate plan. Makes good headlines but not a fan of folks crying about something they signed up for.

 

[Lt.Dan]

I always thought the utility controlling the thermostat was silly. Even if they set the thermostat to 80, its pretty easy to just heat up the thermostat and it turn on the AC for the house. Then you still get the financial benefits and a cooler house, right?

 

[G20]

off-topic (I can't help myself)

I use this same argument about people afraid of a federal list of firearm holders. I'm generally pro-firearms, but have accepted that with all the thousands if not millions of points of information accumulated on almost every single person, a list could easily be generated on who has the firearms. It might not be who has exactly what, but it could certainly be to a high degree of accuracy that they would have something of a certain class (FWIW I think they should simultaneously open up what types of firearms you can own, but simply have more stringent requirements in proportion for the potential danger of the weapon to the public, note NFA class III are virtually never used in crime). It's not that I want a list, it's just people are afraid it's the first step to being rounded up and taken away, and they could do that now with the data out there if they wanted to.

The California DOJ just doxed hundreds of thousands of California gun owners on the web this summer with a complete downloadable database (via a single download button) of anyone who bought a firearm, applied for a CCW (granted or denied), took a Firearms Safety Certificate test, etc. The gun owners have good reason to be worried because California gun owner's personal information has already been released (permit numbers, drivers license numbers, names, addresses, phone numbers, gender, race, birth dates, firearms registry, etc.).

The CA DOJ sent a letter of notification to everyone they publicly doxed and offer no remedy nor suffer any penalties for their pernicious actions against the citizens they jeopardized. That database is now set free on the web for identity thieves, criminals' one stop shopping lists, political attacks, discriminatory purposes and so on. The doxed names included judges, lawyers, doctors, cops, etc.


Leak of California gun owners’ private data far wider than originally reported

 

[32 volt boater]

California DOJ just doxed hundreds of thousands

That's just ridiculous, guns are centuries old inventions steel tube, fuel oxidizer and some lead. Not going away.

Meanwhile have fun buy a gun that can hurt someone a mile away but want to put some panels on your roof to make some electric out of sunshine the permit gestapo up your rear end.

Maybe we need a new constitutional amendment that the right to bear solar shall not be infringed

 

[G20]

That's just ridiculous, guns are centuries old inventions steel tube, fuel oxidizer and some lead. Not going away.

Meanwhile have fun buy a gun that can hurt someone a mile away but want to put some panels on your roof to make some electric out of sunshine the permit gestapo up your rear end.

Maybe we need a new constitutional amendment that the right to bear solar shall not be infringed

I would love an offgrid ground mount system to distance myself from the PC. Don't like replacing broken brittle roofing tiles.

I don't think an amendment would help because the doxing occurred just days after a SCOTUS decision declaring the NY and CA anti-CCW laws/policies unconstitutional. Everyone jumped through their hoops, paid their fees and were still doxed.

The timing and scope of the doxing was too coincidental to be accidental.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

Jim didn't happen to be black, did he?

Go race bait elsewhere?