Sol-Ark's Comment on EG4 18k-PV-12-LV

[robby]

Seeing the mighty SolArk come on here to defend itself brings a giant smile to my face. Your competition has arrived and the consequences will be devastating. Time to think about lowering your price if you want to survive.

Go back a few pages.
DIY solar is .5% of the Solar Market in the USA.
Most of Sol-Arks customers are spending $40-$60K on a system. Those people do not care about a $1600 Savings and at the end of the day it is really coming down to what the Installer is selling and recommends.
There is no way that Luxpower is going to move the needle on the Price points that Enphase and Solaredge have set.
Sol-Ark is trying to stay under those numbers and compete with them for market share, not with Luxpower.
So don't expect any price changes based on LuxPower. Now if Enphase lowers it's price then yes I am pretty sure Sol-Ark would respond to that.

 

[Quattrohead]

Now if Enphase lowers it's price then yes I am pretty sure Sol-Ark would respond to that.

Not likely, different markets surely ?

Sol-Ark is trying to stay under those numbers and compete with them for market share, not with Luxpower.

This seams far more likely to me, EG/Lux will affect Solark more than Enphase.

 

[SignatureSolarJames]

Hate to burst your Bubble but I just got off the Phone with the Senior engineer at Sol-Ark and he says that they were alerted by E-Linter to those features being added to the Software months ago, but that they do not apply to Any Sol-Ark model Inverter. So sorry but your theory has gone up in flames!

He was very puzzled as to why you would think this was relevant to the Inverter Firmware situation and I explained to him that your putting together a theory that if Sol-Ark is using a Deye features then Sol-Ark must be getting their Firmware from Deye. He laughed and asked if I was serious.

He said to tell you that Sol-Ark and Deye are partner companies and that any Changes or Exploits found to the Hardware's capabilities are shared amongst both parties. Each company does it's own Firmware but they are both aware of all of the full command structure and what they do. It is up to each company to decide what they will do with what is available.

For an honesty check on the basis to believe their info why not ask them in their booth if they make their own inverters or if Deye makes them?

anybody can post the replies, nobody has to guess ours.

you keep saying $1600, your math skills are in question now...

 

[robby]

Not likely, different markets surely ?

This seams far more likely to me, EG/Lux will affect Solark more than Enphase.

How many systems is Enphase setting up per year vs EG4?
EG4 has not even gotten all of it's certifications together to start competing with Enphase or Sol-Ark to get into that 99.5% of the market share.
Based on Toms letter I am sure they are keeping an eye on Luxpower but it's not a threat to them anytime in the near future.

 

[robby]

For an honesty check on the basis to believe their info why not ask them in their booth if they make their own inverters or if Deye makes them?

Deye makes them but you seem to have a hard time understanding the difference between Designing a Product and Manufacturing a Product. Almost everything is manufactured in China but most items are Designed in the USA/Europe/Japan etc.

anybody can post the replies, nobody has to guess ours.

Well yeah, you got three other companies on here saying they sell the same thing.

you keep saying $1600, your math skills are in question now...

I am doing the Math based on the Price that I know a 15K can be bought for when purchased with a complete system.
I think that you also discount those LV6548 Inverters when they are purchased in a package? Notice I specify that when "Someone is spending $40-$60K on a system that $1600 price difference does not matter.
Would a 2.7% discount change your mind when making a purchase?

 

[mvonw]

Most of Sol-Arks customers are spending $40-$60K on a system. Those people do not care about a $1600 Savings and at the end of the day

This type of discussion repeats all over the internet in every equipment discussion. I think it's a thinly veiled classist proxy argument. There are a lot of folks who DIY for reasons other than price. For me, I am remote and can't easily get people to service my system, and I need to be able to fix it myself (plus I like building things/tinkering), in the long run, most good equipment ends up being less expensive overall.

 

[SignatureSolarJames]

Deye makes them but you seem to have a hard time understanding the difference between Designing a Product and Manufacturing a Product. Almost everything is manufactured in China but most items are Designed in the USA/Europe/Japan etc.

just ask for the truth and see if you get it

Well yeah, you got three other companies on here saying they sell the same thing.

I am doing the Math based on the Price that I know a 15K can be bought for when purchased with a complete system.
I think that you also discount those LV6548 Inverters when they are purchased in a package? Notice I specify that when "Someone is spending $40-$60K on a system that $1600 price difference does not matter.
Would a 2.7% discount change your mind when making a purchase?

it would make a difference in your math skills. we're $500 off of batteries with the unit btw

18kpv +30kwh = $15,000
Panels for 15kw and RSD/roof mount and wiring =$11000

$26k but sure I have said all along if people want to spend more on a more mature brand than Solark is the way to go. Several features are not as good for backup but it is better at grid tie sell and possibly battery charge efficiency (want to confirm in our rd lab)

the folks in the $26k and below range are our people though; no judgement there.

 

[robby]

This type of discussion repeats all over the internet in every equipment discussion. I think it's a thinly veiled classist proxy argument. There are a lot of folks who DIY for reasons other than price. For me, I am remote and can't easily get people to service my system, and I need to be able to fix it myself (plus I like building things/tinkering), in the long run, most good equipment ends up being less expensive overall.

Maybe your mistaking what I am saying. But yeah I have always found that good equipment is cheaper in the long run.
If I go into a car dealership and I am set on buying one car over another, then a 2.6% discount is not going to sway me to change my mind. Just like i do not think that Installers who knows that Sol-Ark is reliable is going to change his mind based on a 2.6% discount to the cost of materials.
One service call and that savings is gone for the Installer!

 

[robby]

just ask for the truth and see if you get it

I asked them many times and I always get the same answer. They designed the 8K, 12K and 15K.

it would make a difference in your math skills. we're $500 off of batteries with the unit btw

18kpv +30kwh = $15,000
Panels for 15kw and RSD/roof mount and wiring =$11000

$26k but sure I have said all along if people want to spend more on a more mature brand than Solark is the way to go. Several features are not as good for backup but it is better at grid tie sell and possibly battery charge efficiency (want to confirm in our rd lab)

???

the folks in the $26k range are our people though.

Agree and that is not the Market that Sol-Ark targets.

 

[Tulex]

Interesting how these threads have gone from pointing out the real issue with SS, the bad customer service, to bashing Sol-Ark, mostly because Sol-Ark costs too much. If the main beef people have is that Sol-Ark costs too much, Sol-Ark has to be smiling right now.

 

[cs1234]

Interesting how these threads have gone from pointing out the real issue with SS, the bad customer service, to bashing Sol-Ark, mostly because Sol-Ark costs too much. If the main beef people have is that Sol-Ark costs too much, Sol-Ark has to be smiling right now.

My biggest beef with Sol-Ark is that they named their inverter based off the PV + battery spec instead of battery alone, which I find misleading. Now that they did it, it seems everybody wants to do it, evidence the new EG4 18k. Soon the industry will be naming inverters based off the amount of AC pass through instead of the inverter itself, 200amps at 240v, the new Sol-Ark or EG4 48k.

Something about Sol-Ark also strikes me as kind of snooty towards DIY'ers, though I have a hard time pointing to any one thing. They aren't as bad as EnPhase or Schneider in that regard, but they certainly seem to aspire to it.

I've laid down some pretty big bashing on SS on various threads as well, I'm pretty equal opportunity with my hatred.

 

[rhino]

For an honesty check on the basis to believe their info why not ask them in their booth if they make their own inverters or if Deye makes them?

anybody can post the replies, nobody has to guess ours.

you keep saying $1600, your math skills are in question now...

Comments like these are why people don't get good vibes from SS. They come off as unprofessional and would be better off not said.

 

[robby]

My biggest beef with Sol-Ark is that they named their inverter based off the PV + battery spec instead of battery alone, which I find misleading. Now that they did it, it seems everybody wants to do it, evidence the new EG4 18k. Soon the industry will be naming inverters based off the amount of AC pass through instead of the inverter itself, 200amps at 240v, the new Sol-Ark or EG4 48k.

I know Sol-Ark regrets that one. The problem was that they wanted to infuse the 3K battery charger into the Name and this was what at the time they thought was the solution. For me it is no big deal because I spend hours and days going over manuals and Spec sheets before making a purchase and the true answer was right there.

Something about Sol-Ark also strikes me as kind of snooty towards DIY'ers, though I have a hard time pointing to any one thing. They aren't as bad as EnPhase or Schneider in that regard, but they certainly seem to aspire to it.

Agree, I think they are a but weary of the Market.
I guess it's because with Installers there is a lot less after sales work to deal with then DIY people and the market of DIY people is very small.

I've laid down some pretty big bashing on SS on various threads as well, I'm pretty equal opportunity with my hatred.

I know ?

 

[Zwy]

A thousand pardons, a youtube comment, not a facebook comment.

Cromer, he works for Sol-Ark now. I'm not a fan of his, I won't purchase from Sol-Ark while he's there, for whatever that's worth.

That's the fella. https://diysolarforum.com/threads/battery-banks-parasitic-loads-and-low-sun-hours.56065/post-741701

It was brought up somewhere in the massive thread that he was so endearing in. He stopped commenting in the thread right around the time he moved to Sol-Ark from what I can tell.

 

[themizz]

Personally I find all of these discussions highly entertaining.

One of my main take aways is that things are more gray than we as humans would like them to be.

I'm inherently distrustful of people who claim with 100% certainty that something is the case when it's clearly not 100% certain. It takes vigilance as I do this myself but I try to be aware of it.

 

[robby]

That's the fella. https://diysolarforum.com/threads/battery-banks-parasitic-loads-and-low-sun-hours.56065/post-741701

John is a really nice guy. He is well liked in the Industry and has a Ton of technical Youtube videos that he made for Fortress Power.

John won me over when I had a battery problem with one of my eFlexes and he spent two hours on the phone helping me fix the problem. What impressed me the most was that when we were approaching the two hour mark John said to me if we do not fix this issue in 5 more minutes I am going to ship out a new battery to you in the Morning and send you a shipping label so you can ship back the old one. That was way beyond any normal customer service I had experienced in years.

 

[Zwy]

Interesting how these threads have gone from pointing out the real issue with SS, the bad customer service, to bashing Sol-Ark, mostly because Sol-Ark costs too much. If the main beef people have is that Sol-Ark costs too much, Sol-Ark has to be smiling right now.

Number one rule I learned in the 36 years of my business experience:

If you aren't hearing complaints about your pricing, you are not charging enough.

 

[DIYrich]

When I buy something, it is one of three options:
1) Cheapest
2) Best "Value"
3) "Best"

If #1, then it won't be Sol-Ark or the EG4 18k
If #2 or #3, then I'm not spending that much to go with the new kid on the block.
To go with the new kid on the block, it would have to be significantly more capable with no close #2.
Note: I would go with a new product of a firm with a demonstrated track record in the product line.

 

[DIYrich]

Number one rule I learned in the 36 years of my business experience:

If you aren't hearing complaints about your pricing, you are not charging enough.

Depends upon your target market. What is your "competitive advantage". You haven't been competing on price. If you compete on price, then people won't complain about your pricing. Either they buy it because you are the cheapest, or they buy a competitor's cheaper product.

 

[Cheap 4-life]

That's your argument? Again, refer to my prior posts on determining manufacturers vs. OEMs vs. relabellers, the casework validates it.
It seems like there is alot of hooplah over "who invented the Sol-Ark inverter". One person has mentioned Solax... that's not a whole home backup inverter with integrated wiring compartment. Others have yet to show a Sol-Ark inverter, pre-Sol-Ark, but have validated Sol-Arks exclusivity claims to its territory, which in turn, illustrate a huge difference between a company like EG4 (which lacks exclusivity) and Sol-Ark (which commands it).

I mentioned SolaX because it was the first hybrid inverter not SolArk. Several on this forum have said many times that SolArk made the first hybrid inverter.. the SolaX (first hybrid inverter) isn’t whole home backup with integrated wiring compartment. I never implied or said that SolArk didnt come up with new stuff. I have said several times that they had things they wanted to add to an EXISTING hybrid inverter technology. They act like they invented the wheel. All they did was add some good features (for the USA market) to existing hybrid inverters technology. Revolutionize/completely change, I wouldn't agree with that and see no reason SolArk should be taking that stance. They added some good features like splitphase to the 8k and then more useful features after that. No reason to say they made the first hybrid inverters.
Of course there isn’t a SolArk before SolArk lol. That’s like saying show a Deye (or any inverter) before a Deye was made, you can’t... however there was hybrid inverters before SolArk….
i could be wrong but I think Deye had a single phase hybrid inverter that they were making and SolArk simply wanted an inverter made so Deye basically used their single phase hybrid and made them into splitphase and added other features SolArk wanted and slapped a SolArk name on them.. can’t prove that because Deyes singlephase hybrids became available to the public at just about the same exact time as SolArks splitphase.
yes SolArk basically made Deye not sell the splitphase inverters to the US. SolArk makes Deye a lot of money due to all the inverters (SolArks) they have Deye create/make for them. Makes sense that Deye didnt want to lose SolArks business by selling a few splitphase models to the usa here and there..