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EG4 18k caused massive voltage spike

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Seems like best practice would be to disconnect the loads when fiddling with inverter/battery settings that could cause a restart? Whether it be the owner or support via online. Perhaps an improvement in the communication process, I e. Request ok from client before restarting inverter when working remotely.
 
SignatureSolarJess said:
Hi @scottlebus ! I'm so sorry this has happened! Our tech manager has actually been out of the office, but our senior tech manager reached out to you yesterday to offer support, and he is reaching back out to set up a phone call with you now to offer further assistance. As stated in his previous email, after a thorough review of the calls and emails with our technicians, this was caused by a lack of grounding that was addressed in a few phone calls with you. Therefore, regrettably, we cannot provide compensation for the furnace as we did not advise against grounding your inverter. Mistakes happen! We are all learning, but we are here to help! We will be sure to get you through the resolution process as quickly as possible to provide you with a replacement 18kPV. Once you have the new inverter, we'll be happy to help you get your system up and running smoothly. We'll ensure the settings are just right and the inverter is working at its best. However, please be aware that we're unable to provide guidance on wiring. We recommend involving a licensed electrician for any wiring assistance you may need. We look forward to getting this taken care of for you!
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Oh strange, I was thinking it was a bad neutral connection or wiring. Or 240V connected to 120V loads or something.

Hoping original poster or jess can give us more information. Not sure how bad grounding would cause a spike besides long pv conductors without a SPD or something like that. Doubt that would burn out the devices mentioned though.
 
Hedges said:
Can you explain to me (like I'm an engineer) what the wrong/right way to wire it is and how lack of grounding caused damage to his equipment?

This is a DIY forum, many people here are buying and installing that model. They need to know what to watch out for, and why.
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All EG4 inverters are required to be grounded - We recommend grounding the inverter to the breaker panel and then to the grounding rod.
 
BKY2003 said:
I am set up with the critical load subpanel diagram. It calls for a non fused 2 pole disconnect, which I have. Do you think its better to change to the fused Disconnect? Thanks.

I went ahead and ordered the fuse one.
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Depending on the diagram utilized, a fused disconnect would be required for the Partial Home Backup with Supply Side Tap. Conversely, with the Partial Home Backup with Backfed Breaker, an overcurrent protection breaker would be in the panel. However, you could use a fused 2 Pole Disconnect for redundancy.
 
SignatureSolarJess said:
All EG4 inverters are required to be grounded - We recommend grounding the inverter to the breaker panel and then to the grounding rod.
Click to expand...

If the complaint was getting a shock from chassis, lack of grounding could certainly explain it.

You have not explained to me like I'm an engineer how lack of a ground wire to EG4 inverter caused "fried my furnace board, 2 garage door motors, and other insignificant items such as power strips."

Perhaps you are not using the correct electrical terms. Maybe one of SS techs can document the right/wrong way for us. Like provide a schematic showing correct connection, redlined to show what was wrong (maybe just a red X on the missing ground wire.) Then those of us skilled in the art can study it and comment on whether or not that could cause failure of a motor.
 
Hedges said:
If the complaint was getting a shock from chassis, lack of grounding could certainly explain it.

You have not explained to me like I'm an engineer how lack of a ground wire to EG4 inverter caused "fried my furnace board, 2 garage door motors, and other insignificant items such as power strips."

Perhaps you are not using the correct electrical terms. Maybe one of SS techs can document the right/wrong way for us. Like provide a schematic showing correct connection, redlined to show what was wrong (maybe just a red X on the missing ground wire.) Then those of us skilled in the art can study it and comment on whether or not that could cause failure of a motor.
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I'm not understanding it myself. I have limited knowledge when it comes to electric, but I thought grounding was to prevent electrifying an object due to shorting, not to balance a load.
 
Hedges said:
If the complaint was getting a shock from chassis, lack of grounding could certainly explain it.

You have not explained to me like I'm an engineer how lack of a ground wire to EG4 inverter caused "fried my furnace board, 2 garage door motors, and other insignificant items such as power strips."

Perhaps you are not using the correct electrical terms. Maybe one of SS techs can document the right/wrong way for us. Like provide a schematic showing correct connection, redlined to show what was wrong (maybe just a red X on the missing ground wire.) Then those of us skilled in the art can study it and comment on whether or not that could cause failure of a motor.
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It is not just the ground, however, I cannot upload any information/photos that OP has submitted to us. If OP would like to show his system or explain the situation in more detail for others' opinions, he can do so and everyone can comment from there :)
 
Tulex said:
I'm not understanding it myself. I have limited knowledge when it comes to electric, but I thought grounding was to prevent electrifying an object due to shorting, not to balance a load.
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Yes, EGC's are for providing a low impedance path to N-G bond in order to trip a breaker.

If N was open I could see a problem. I think correct terminology needs to be used here, grounded (neutral) or grounding (EGC).
 
Quattrohead said:
I'm thinking more neutral than ground issue in this instance.
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It would be easy to assume the OP was incorrect but Signature Solar stated that:

As stated in his previous email, after a thorough review of the calls and emails with our technicians, this was caused by a lack of grounding that was addressed in a few phone calls with you. Therefore, regrettably, we cannot provide compensation for the furnace as we did not advise against grounding your inverter.
Click to expand...

Now either SS does not know the difference between Ground and Neutral or the guy is telling the Truth!
It's kind of unreasonable to think that a person in this position is going to be rushing over to keep updating us on a Forum about his situation. Based on his statement it seems that he has already removed the Inverter and sent it back to SS. He is asking us how to prevent the New One from doing the same thing.
 
robby said:
It would be easy to assume the OP was incorrect but Signature Solar stated that:
Click to expand...

SignatureSolarJess said:
All EG4 inverters are required to be grounded - We recommend grounding the inverter to the breaker panel and then to the grounding rod.
Click to expand...

robby said:
Now either SS does not know the difference between Ground and Neutral or the guy is telling the Truth!
Click to expand...

Well, I would say that SS doesn't know the difference according to Jess's post above. N (grounded conductor) does not connect to the ground rod, G (the grounding wire) runs to the ground rod.

N (grounded conductor) should be bonded to G ( the grounding wire) at the breaker panel. The reason for this is in case of a ground fault there is low impedance path on G to N at the bonding point as current will return to source on N.

It needs to be clear in the manual and it seems either Jess is using terms incorrectly or the manual is wrong.


robby said:
It's kind of unreasonable to think that a person in this position is going to be rushing over to keep updating us on a Forum about his situation. Based on his statement it seems that he has already removed the Inverter and sent it back to SS. He is asking us how to prevent the New One from doing the same thing.
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Possibilities:

1. Inverter output a line to line or line to neutral voltage so high that it fried equipment. Seems unlikely to me. I mean it's not impossible, but that's not a common kind of inverter fault, nearly unheard of.

2. Open neutral. If OP was in fact rearranging more than just the battery cables, and the neutral was open when the inverter powered on. Completely plausible way to fry a control board and known failure mode for any split phase AC system.

3. Other wiring error. Line to neutral or something.

4. Lack of grounding? Can't see how that would do it.
 
SignatureSolarJess said:
It is not just the ground, however, I cannot upload any information/photos that OP has submitted to us. If OP would like to show his system or explain the situation in more detail for others' opinions, he can do so and everyone can comment from there :)
Click to expand...
Please understand I will not elaborate on a customer's system without their permission.
 
I appreciate the OP posting, it helps us figure out better ways to protect. I think the ones with the critical load panel, like myself. Need to put in a fuse disconnect instead of the nonfused disconnect in the wiring diagram. The breaker is not going to catch high voltage situations. Any Opinions on this? Thanks
 
Sure, but you COULD post an SS schematic showing the right way to connect L1, L2, N, G of grid to inverter, and inverter to load.

You could also note anything we should not do, such as maybe switching neutral with a 3-pole disconnect between grid and inverter, bonding N to G after the inverter, operating with N disconnected before or after, etc.

We here can probably figure out ways to burn up a small load like PCB by leaving neutral disconnected. Not a large motor. We could also feed 240V into anything 120V and damage it.

But we can't for the life of us figure out how leaving inverter ungrounded would burn out a motor.

Without mentioning OP or his system, you could say, "Hypothetically speaking, if a customer was to leave ground disconnected *HERE* (mark on schematic), that could result in a motor burning out because ... (provide the explanation none of us have been clever enough to think of.)"
 
I would like to figure out how exactly lack of grounding can cause either loss of neutral balance or over voltage. We need to see OPs wiring to verify that neutral was connected. Not having earth ground should not be causing neutral unbalance unless this inverter relies on grid step down transformer secondary winding to hold neutral balance during line passthrough to off-grid switchover.
 
How about this scenario.
Grid neutral not connected, inverter switched off and hence went to bypass.
The inverter supplied neutral is now gone and various things fry due to lost neutral.

These things are not plug n play.
 
Quattrohead said:
How about this scenario.
Grid neutral not connected, inverter switched off and hence went to bypass.
The inverter supplied neutral is now gone and various things fry due to lost neutral.

These things are not plug n play.
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That would mean that this is the very first time the guy ever shutdown the Inverter?
He says he was messing with the battery connection, not the AC side.
I must have switched mine On and Off at least a dozen times on the first day of installation.
 
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