Ethernet over powerline

Has anyone been able to make a powerline ethernet extender (eg, TL-WPA8630 Kit) work? I'm esp. interested if you succeeded with a Sol-Ark 12K (or equivalent). I tried this a couple of years ago when I had Outback FX inverters, but not since I replaced that with the Sol-Ark. Lots of posts at random websites suggest the harmonics of the inverter interfere with the signal. This is not just with junk inverters - at least one post mentioned Victron (though some folks may think those are junk, I suppose).

If you've got this working on a Sol-Ark, I'd like to know the brand/model of extended that you're using.
Thanks

How long do you need to run and do you have line of sight between the two locations? I'm inclined to suggest something like the tp-link CPE range it's point to point wifi so unlikely to have frequency issues like power line extenders.

ThaiTaffy said:

How long do you need to run and do you have line of sight between the two locations? I'm inclined to suggest something like the tp-link CPE range it's point to point wifi so unlikely to have frequency issues like power line extenders.

Click to expand...

Distance is small - only about 125' (from the house to the garage, which is all metal so it's a Faraday cage.) Clear line of sight. My only reluctance about a point-to-point bridge is that plastic doesn't survive long outside here - too much sun.
But it should work if powerline adapters don't.

Llaves said:

Distance is small - only about 125' (from the house to the garage, which is all metal so it's a Faraday cage.) Clear line of sight. My only reluctance about a point-to-point bridge is that plastic doesn't survive long outside here - too much sun.
But it should work if powerline adapters don't.

Click to expand...

At 125 ft why not just run cable? Cat6 will do 300ft without issues.
The tp-link stuff seems to hold up in the sun I have a few outside Access points in stupid sunshine and they haven't turned to dust yet.

Llaves said:

Distance is small - only about 125' (from the house to the garage, which is all metal so it's a Faraday cage.) Clear line of sight. My only reluctance about a point-to-point bridge is that plastic doesn't survive long outside here - too much sun.
But it should work if powerline adapters don't.

Click to expand...

Quality hardware should be built with plastic that will survive. However, you could also install them under the eaves to provide some shade

RS485 can work up to 4,000ft. Use one of the twisted pairs in a cat6 (direct bury) cable. I use another of the twisted pairs in the same cable to monitor batteries. I have three RS485 to USB converters in the house.

ThaiTaffy said:

The tp-link stuff seems to hold up in the sun I have a few outside Access points in stupid sunshine and they haven't turned to dust yet.

Click to expand...

In NM we get 30% more sunshine than you do in Thailand and at 7500' and no humidity our sunshine is a LOT more intense.

Another vote for the TP-Link CPE series, they seem to hold up pretty well in the tropics, and they are cheap to replace as required.

I was never able to get powerline stuff to work reliably, would never install it for clients, too many callbacks.

Llaves said:

In NM we get 30% more sunshine than you do in Thailand and at 7500' and no humidity our sunshine is a LOT more intense.

Click to expand...

30%? Sorry where's this number? no humidity fair enough but 30% more sunshine? As far as I can tell were a good 15° closer to the equator.

ThaiTaffy said:

30%? Sorry where's this number? no humidity fair enough but 30% more sunshine? As far as I can tell were a good 15° closer to the equator.

Click to expand...

According to this webpage, Chang Mai gets about 60% of available sunshine. The rest is cloudy weather. The comparable number for Albq is
~80%.

I knowa short observation period is just anecdotal, but looking at the coming two weeks, total daily insolation forecast in Albq ranges from 7300 to 8600Wh/m^2. The forecast for Chang Mai is from 1750 to 4800Wh/m^2 and the 4800Wh/m^2 is an outlier from the rest of the week.

Llaves said:

According to this webpage, Chang Mai gets about 60% of available sunshine. The rest is cloudy weather. The comparable number for Albq is
~80%.

I knowa short observation period is just anecdotal, but looking at the coming two weeks, total daily insolation forecast in Albq ranges from 7300 to 8600Wh/m^2. The forecast for Chang Mai is from 1750 to 4800Wh/m^2 and the 4800Wh/m^2 is an outlier from the rest of the week.

Click to expand...

Completely the wrong area of Thailand for me but since I know where you lived I went and took a look, GHI is almost identical but your intensity is greater. PV out is 1776kwh for you and 1523kwh for me so 15% less if my math is correct.

So what we can take from this is I have way to much time on my hands and those tp-link things should be ok as long as they're not in direct sunlight.

Powerline adapters work better when they are behind the same breaker.

So, i would go to your power panel and disconnect the garage wire from the breaker, and reconnect to a new outlet. Then connect the outlet to the breaker. Plug your master powerline adapter into that outlet. Then connect the remote powerline adapter in the garage.

I have used the netgear power line adapters successfully supporting 2 security cameras at 4k.

I will say powerline adapters have their place, but it is FAR from ideal.

At 125Ft, I’d get some plenum or direct burial cable, and just run cable.
Fiber optic is nice, but really only needed over 500’ runs. Cat3/4/5/6 all work fine to 300+ feet. Unless you pass over a lot of fluorescent lighting… they DESTROY Ethernet signals.

Supervstech said:

Unless you pass over a lot of fluorescent lighting… they DESTROY Ethernet signals.

Click to expand...

TIL Never knew that and that's the kind of info I relish.

Cable is pretty much out of the question. All the conduit through the slab to outside the house is occupied (shop subpanel, well pump, etc). Radiant heat in the slab rules out drilling, and that wouldn't help anyway because the utility room is 20' from the outside wall, and the stemwall is 2' thick concrete.
No way to put the powerline adapters on the same breaker - the shop is on a subpanel served by a dedicated breaker.
Looks like an RF bridge is the way to go. Even with the RF link on the wall of the shop, there's still the problem that the building is all metal - a Faraday cage.

How about a Wireless Bridge Point to Point Outdoor WiFi, Wireless Network Expansion Kit, lots of options

Llaves said:

Cable is pretty much out of the question. All the conduit through the slab to outside the house is occupied (shop subpanel, well pump, etc). Radiant heat in the slab rules out drilling, and that wouldn't help anyway because the utility room is 20' from the outside wall, and the stemwall is 2' thick concrete.
No way to put the powerline adapters on the same breaker - the shop is on a subpanel served by a dedicated breaker.
Looks like an RF bridge is the way to go. Even with the RF link on the wall of the shop, there's still the problem that the building is all metal - a Faraday cage.

Click to expand...

What about installing in some form of cheap readily available plastic enclosure? That way it can be external without the device getting cooked.

I just bought https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0CX85WC61 but haven’t set it up yet, looks easier to set up than the CPE-510 family I’m used to.

+1000 for WiFi over PowerLine.

PowerLine = electrical and signal processing gremlins you have NO control over. Super niche, used by people that don't know better, so never gets better. Well, theoretically, you probably do have control over it, but good luck getting education on it.

WiFi - installed base in the billions vs a few million PowerLine users. Very easy to find tons of debugging tools and help for WiFi. Almost none for Powerline. You have control over your AP placement. You have control over your AP protection. The main thing you lose control over is RF interference (but the baseline situation is less of a poopshow than Powerline. I've had trouble getting powerline to go 20 feet. And see above for the aforementioned tooling and community support you get to debug WiFi).

FWIW, I have a huge graveyard of PowerLine adapters... I was in a vicious cycle a few years back where I would buy a new pair every few years, and then stop using it after a month. Until I checked the forums and did some systematic testing, and decided they're the work of Satan.

My starting point with diagnosing powerline issues is the throw them away, then design a reliable solution.

solarsimon said:

My starting point with diagnosing powerline issues is the throw them away, then design a reliable solution.

Click to expand...

Good call, but maybe killing it with fire is better.

Or giving it away to your enemy

WiFi over Powerline attempts to use unlicensed radio frequencies on mains wiring to communicate between devices

Unfortunately mains cables are unshielded and were never designed to carry RF signals. The inevitable result is that the unlicensed RF signals leak out of the mains wiring and cause interference to licensed services. And conversely, outside signals leak inwards and cause interference to the WiFi signal.

This means that WiFi over PL devices will sporadically suffer interference from nearby radio transmitters, and conversely will cause interference to legitimate radio users. And because WiFi over PL is unlicensed, it can be offered no protection from this interference.

To compound the problem, mains wiring is a horrendously noisy environment, and because of the likelihood of interference to legitimate services, the equipment is severely constrained in the transmitted power levels which are permitted. This further reduces the achievable distance and increases the likelihood of interference.

The bottom line is that WiFi over PL can often work for days or weeks, but then suddenly cease working with no warning.

To RF engineers who work in the EMC interference mitigation field, WiFi over PL is an unmitigated disaster waiting to happen..

Llaves said:

Cable is pretty much out of the question. All the conduit through the slab to outside the house is occupied (shop subpanel, well pump, etc). Radiant heat in the slab rules out drilling, and that wouldn't help anyway because the utility room is 20' from the outside wall, and the stemwall is 2' thick concrete.
No way to put the powerline adapters on the same breaker - the shop is on a subpanel served by a dedicated breaker.
Looks like an RF bridge is the way to go. Even with the RF link on the wall of the shop, there's still the problem that the building is all metal - a Faraday cage.

Click to expand...

Uh, it may not be practical in your location, to get folks/equipment with right experience and tools, but none of what you listed would prohibit drilling and running a new conduit under the slab and through 2ft of concrete if required ... which would be what I'd be looking into... but could be price prohibitive, especially in a remote area ?? ...
Personally, with 90meter Ethernet standard (+5m for either end for patch cord), I'd consider less direct path... ie running through attic to preferred exterior house location (ideally with easy access to bring cable down wall, either interior wall, or closet, or ??) as noted, you have 300+ft of cable length to work with, sometimes a less direct route isn't as hard? then if you can rent tools that let you burrow a new conduit run under a slab for that relatively short distances required? and how deep is that stem wall? go under it?

that said, a point to point wireless ethernet bridge would work fine, and simply put a shade cover over it. And considering alternative, though annoying, simply be prepare to replace every 3-5 years... such gear isn't expensive. but beware cheaply made consumer gear, ex anything by TP-link (not too mention security issues ... granted my exposure was many years ago, but eye-opening to participating in 3-letter agency cyber-security briefings... tech conferences, etc open to public. Personally, if I was given free TP-link gear (and many other similar mfgs) the only thing I'd consider is giving away to an enemy, or outright destroying)