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Use solder paste on terminals-busbar to improve conductivity?

Well being an old woman I think I can manage 35 in-lbs. Oh wait, I was a power lifter for 30 years and lifted the back end of small cars for funsies. hmmm. LOL ;)

I will read those articles. Thank for the links. :)
I have trouble with it because none of my torque wrenches go below 6 or 7 ft-lbs. Fortunately my batteries have 8mm bolts.
I have a similar problem above 75 ft-lbs because the Craftsman torque wrench my father gave me 40 years ago, which is still good, only goes that high. The other cheap ones I have kicking around that do go over 100 ft-lbs (for crankshaft pulley or harmonic balancer) are quite inaccurate. We played tug-of-war between the good and the ugly to get a calibration factor before using the cheap one.

"Thank for the link but that is for lead acid batteries."

That was just for reference, that name brands provide necessary specs.
For your lithium cells, be sure to read the diysolarform thread I linked (going back to update my posting) because it describes stripping out terminals. One guy managed to run a stud to the bottom after the fact and made it work without thread repair.
 
I have trouble with it because none of my torque wrenches go below 6 or 7 ft-lbs. Fortunately my batteries have 8mm bolts.
I have a similar problem above 75 ft-lbs because the Craftsman torque wrench my father gave me 40 years ago, which is still good, only goes that high. The other cheap ones I have kicking around that do go over 100 ft-lbs (for crankshaft pulley or harmonic balancer) are quite inaccurate. We played tug-of-war between the good and the ugly to get a calibration factor before using the cheap one.

"Thank for the link but that is for lead acid batteries."

That was just for reference, that name brands provide necessary specs.
For your lithium cells, be sure to read the diysolarform thread I linked (going back to update my posting) because it describes stripping out terminals. One guy managed to run a stud to the bottom after the fact and made it work without thread repair.
The link was for galvanic problem, but I get the meaning. :)
 
In the manual for the 280Ah EVE cells, you can find:

"Remark: The pole is a double aluminum pole structure. The internal screw with size M6 is used in the poles. The anti-torsion of pole is 8Nm. The torsion should be less than 8Nm when used. The effective thread hole depth is 6mm."

 
I think we stole this guys thread.
Ahem, um er. No, don't use solder paste . ??
That is OK.

Funny to see where the stories go..
From bacon to falling out of buildings :)

Washer between terminal and bus-bars/lugs for sure is not a good idea.

Nothing even isn't that bad..
Sealing with oxi-guard (or similar) will prevent oxidation but ain't good for contact, as it's non conductive.

I'll be using silver "paint", the stuff you use to repair PCB lines.
Like any other paint job, clean aluminium surface.
It will seal the aluminium from oxigen / oxidation / galvanic corrosion.
(No oxigen = no galvanic corrosion)

Some might disagree and for a spaceship it's not a good solution.
In my home I don't have huge pressure or temperature difference.
I've tested the paint on aluminium heatsink that gets hot (+60 c) and cool (+25 c) a few times a day.

After a few weeks I can't see any problems with the paint, still looks as new.
Even added some salt water after a few days to extra abuse.

If that is not giving problems, I'm sure it won't give that problems at my terminals.

Oxi-guard probably is easier, this is better conductive.
Both have the same effect on galvanic corrosion prevention.

My Bus-bars are electroplated with Tin.

Stainless steel headless bolts / studs and nuts + washers.

I'm not afraid that it will be a problem.

Just to be sure, and low cost, I'll add magnesium wire touching aluminium, bus-bar and rod.

As you can see on this picture, there is room for contact under the bus-bar after installation.
IMG_20201022_234341_595.jpg

If there is galvanic corrosion problems, the magnesium will go first.

@BiduleOhm gave the tip to move the problem towards an area where it's more easy to control.

Next time I probably will use aluminium bus-bar and headless bolts for as long as I can to avoid the galvanic corrosion all together at the batteries.

This is as good as it gets :)
 
That is OK.

Funny to see where the stories go..
From bacon to falling out of buildings :)

Washer between terminal and bus-bars/lugs for sure is not a good idea.

I'll be using silver "paint", the stuff you use to repair PCB lines.
Like any other paint job, clean aluminium surface.
It will seal the aluminium from oxigen / oxidation / galvanic corrosion.
(No oxigen = no galvanic corrosion)

I've tested the paint on aluminium heatsink that gets hot (+60 c) and cool (+25 c) a few times a day.

After a few weeks I can't see any problems with the paint, still looks as new.
Even added some salt water after a few days to extra abuse.

If that is not giving problems, I'm sure it won't give that problems at my terminals.

Oxi-guard probably is easier, this is better conductive.
Both have the same effect on galvanic corrosion prevention.

My Bus-bars are electroplated with Tin.

Stainless steel headless bolts / studs and nuts + washers.

Just to be sure, and low cost, I'll add magnesium wire touching aluminium, bus-bar and rod.

If there is galvanic corrosion problems, the magnesium will go first.

@BiduleOhm gave the tip to move the problem towards an area where it's more easy to control.

Next time I probably will use aluminium bus-bar and headless bolts for as long as I can to avoid the galvanic corrosion all together at the batteries.

This is as good as it gets :)
Couldn't use nothing as it was loose and sparking and melting the plastic. Um er, or so I heard. :sneaky:?

Silver "paint" idea looks interesting.

I just don't want to ignore them for a year and then find out the gut are coming out is all.
If they are going to last 20 years with proper handling, then I would like them to last 20 years.

Thanks for the advice. :)
 
All my dc electrical connections are checked at least one time a year. Tin solder doesn't have galvanic action on aluminum with aluminum protected with anti corrode or grease.
 
I did find one tinned aluminum screw seized in a 3R disconnect switch. Any grease or corrosion inhibitor should prevent that for your battery terminal screws. But stop and rethink torque and clamping force if so lubricated. Won't be a problem for terminal twisting in plastic housing, but will apply more pull-out force to threads, which could be a problem if near the point of stripping. Comparing torque specs for screws of the same size to those for the battery would give a indication.
 
Totally inexperienced...so forgive me if this idea is totally stupid....
If once the terminals have been cleaned (and busbars also) and you have established good contact at the surface interface, could you completely seal things up with some high temp silicone over the whole connection? That way there is no air getting to the union to compromise things? In a mobile RV situation, it would also help prevent vibration movements working things loose. I'm assuming that any heat generated will still be conducted along the busbar to be dissapated.
It might not improve initial conductivity(but that should be first class right at the start anyways), but it might help prevent degradation of the connection over time?
Any obvious flaws in this idea?
 
Totally inexperienced...so forgive me if this idea is totally stupid....
If once the terminals have been cleaned (and busbars also) and you have established good contact at the surface interface, could you completely seal things up with some high temp silicone over the whole connection? That way there is no air getting to the union to compromise things? In a mobile RV situation, it would also help prevent vibration movements working things loose. I'm assuming that any heat generated will still be conducted along the busbar to be dissapated.
It might not improve initial conductivity(but that should be first class right at the start anyways), but it might help prevent degradation of the connection over time?
Any obvious flaws in this idea?
You touched on one of the disadvantages which is the heat dissipation. The silicone will act as an insulator to retain heat. Depending on how much heat you are generating through current draw, this can become a big issue. It can also delaminate the bond between the metal and the silicone rendering the seal ineffective.
This brings us to the other big factor which is that any moisture that gets past the silicone gets trapped there and exacerbates the problem by not allowing it to evaporate.
 
I agree with @Haugen , not for just those reasons.

We have bus-bar, they might get warm, but copper being excellent heat transporter, the not covered base of the bus-bar will cool the increased temperature.

High quality kit can make quite a good seal over the whole thing..

And that's a problem!
Unless you are able to mount in vacuum, you will trap air inside the seal.

Air with moisture and oxigen.

There will be galvanic corrosion, and no place to go.

By the time your connection give problems... You can probably buy new cells. It will be too late to fix anything.

Inside the seal there is higher heat, more extension and shrinking, more stress on the metals.

It will take 4 years or longer before you get any issues, but you won't make the +15 years many of us hope for.

If you don't seal, yes, there are external influences.

But are they bad?

I don't think so.
If it was bad the design would be totally different.

Tinned or zinc coated copper bus-bar should reduce the galvanic corrosion to minimal and still give optimal contact.

Slightly less optimal is corosion prevention by oxi-guard or vaseline, where both are non conductive di-electric grease.

With contact you squeeze the non conductive layer so thin that it's restriction is minimal.

Where there is full contact, there is "no oxygen", no oxidation.
"No oxigen" between quotes..
Yes.. with heat up and cooling some friction might take place.
Also high and low air pressure might expand airpocket..

Might.
Probably not, or so little that your flat metal to metal with filler (conductive or non conductive) will not oxidate enough to provide connection issues with your terminal for the next + 15 years.
It won't last 300 years.

Flat metal to metal is like 2 sheets of flat glass placed together with a drop of water...
Put some ink in the water to see how much air is still present if the glass is properly prepared (fat free)

Your metal to metal will look like this.

And just like this 2 sheets of glass, the layer between the sheets have almost 0 problems from the environment outside.

Even with a small airpocket you see it expands and contracts, but won't be a problem.

10 years.. water vaporise, even at 20 degree Celcius.
Your di-electric grease will dry out a little on the edges.
Electric conductive paste doesn't.

For safety reasons, animals and children I can suggest sealing to prevent accidental contacts
There are other solutions that are more flexible that give the same/better results like a locked space.

It's good to see what is happening!
And just being exposed to air isn't a bad thing.

The cells are intended for home use in home environment.
Not outside, not marine.
(Read the specifications sheets aka white paper)

Using outside those specifications like an airplane with huge difference in pressure, moisture and temperature..
You need special precautions.

Inside your home?
Cleaning the terminals (= remove oxidation) and protect with di-electric grease is for 90% of the installation all that is needed
Those who want little better use electric conductive paste, the special silver paste you can buy for this have other chemical components that will reduce galvanic corrosion to minimal.
It's not just silver powder in grease.

For the people who just place the bars on the cells..
They will get problems like uneven voltage readings.

If you have new cells and after installation your voltage goes all the way except being balanced...
Disconnect the battery, remove your Bus-bars and start cleaning!!

Oxidation is easy removed with natural household tools like lemon juice, vinagre or cream of tartar

This works also for copper and tinned/zinc plated Bus-bars

Sandpaper or rough sponge is seldom needed
 
Ok, perhaps stupid suggestion number2 :ROFLMAO:
Would copper grease anti-sieze work, being copper based, improve electrical conductivity, but prevent the higher chance of galvanic corrosion simply through being a grease? spec is -20degC to 1100degC...offers primarily protection from seizure and corrosion and actually says on the tin 'battery terminals'....anyone with experience of this?
I believe my busbars are nickel plated copper and copper lugs on power take off cables, but terminals are aluminium.copper paste.jpg
 
Ok, perhaps stupid suggestion number2 :ROFLMAO:
Would copper grease anti-sieze work, being copper based, improve electrical conductivity, but prevent the higher chance of galvanic corrosion simply through being a grease? spec is -20degC to 1100degC...offers primarily protection from seizure and corrosion and actually says on the tin 'battery terminals'....anyone with experience of this?
I believe my busbars are nickel plated copper and copper lugs on power take off cables, but terminals are aluminium.View attachment 25902
Not totally stupid, I thought about it also.

It's used in automotive for parts that get hot regularly and still need to be able to replace, like breaks.

The special formula makes it possible to go red hot many times and still able to release the bolts and nuts.

But...
It's oxidized copper powder, and oxidation doesn't conduct electricity as good as we like..

Silver oxide doesn't have this limitation. That is why it's used in the special expensive conductive paste.

Solder paste sadly isn't a good idea for the same reason as the copper paste.... Oxidation.

While it should technically be possible to heat up the whole set to the melting point of solder paste, even without damaging the LiFePO4.. I can not advise to try this at home in your oven :)

Silver conductive paste have chemicals added to avoid/reduce galvanic corrosion.

Chemicals that are around for +50 years, probably identical to the base chemicals used in your car cooling system.

Before 1970 it was common practice to use sacrifice metal in water cooling system. (Often copper radiator, aluminium motor)
 
I never heard of Noalox before
Good tip!!

- after search it seems only available via Amazon or eBay...
Price about 75 USD include shipping and tax :-(

You know home made alternative?
Or just work fast after cleaning :)
It's under $6 at my local Home Depot?
Noalox
 
Hi fhorst
I just bought some Ox-Gard at Home Depot here in Canada if that helps. :)
 
Sadly not everything that is available at low cost in USA is global available at that same price.

Even if it's produced in Asia, doesn't mean it's available here.

Like EPDM rubber foil / sheet used for roofing and ponds..
Made in Thailand but you can't buy locally ..
 
The guys from our India office asked me to send them some metal picks for PCB rework (similar to dental tools.) Couldn't get those locally, they said.

I shipped a package from Harbor Freight. "Made in India", it said.

 
The guys from our India office asked me to send them some metal picks for PCB rework (similar to dental tools.) Couldn't get those locally, they said.

I shipped a package from Harbor Freight. "Made in India", it said.

Figures. :rolleyes:
 
View attachment 26260

Yes...
Not for Thailand :)
Sorry about that, I have no idea what shipping costs, but I could easily send you some. Here in the USA, a lot of building inspectors REQUIRE it be used if you are connecting copper and aluminum wire or electrical fixtures. Too many fires otherwise. In the 1970s they started building homes with aluminum wiring, but it was banned in a short time due to fires.
 

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Sorry about that, I have no idea what shipping costs, but I could easily send you some. Here in the USA, a lot of building inspectors REQUIRE it be used if you are connecting copper and aluminum wire or electrical fixtures. Too many fires otherwise. In the 1970s they started building homes with aluminum wiring, but it was banned in a short time due to fires.
Literally had a LOT of problems with fedex so you might want to try someone else.
They basically screwed someone sending a gift of something used.
They wanted a lot of info for a "commercial" product which of course the object wasn't and the person wasn't a business either. Just someone trying to send something to another person.

Hopefully this helps. :)
 

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