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SunGold Power SP6548 Flickering lights after new install

nofear72784 said:
The issue is this is not periodic noise or induced by other items on the circuit,
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Periodic=repeats= repeats constantly. I.e. sometimes multiple times a second.

you can see the noise in the captured waveform which contains the noise and it coincides exactly with flickering. I expanded the captured waveforms for clarity.
 
Jazzmonger said:
Periodic=repeats= repeats constantly. I.e. sometimes multiple times a second.

you can see the noise in the captured waveform which contains the noise and it coincides exactly with flickering. I expanded the captured waveforms for clarity.
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Smacks forehead. Should have had more coffee this morning.
 
efficientPV said:
You need a digital scope that will display at least 5 seconds of waveform. Then at the location of an anomaly it can be expanded to see what is happening. Flickering will be caused the AC waveform being modulated (varying amplitude). A little waveform distortion will not cause the flickering on a non dimmed LED.
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Well, when you capture a waveform that causes led flicker, please post it for all to see. My capture does not show amplitude increase, yet when the noise on the waveform appears, the led lights all flicker. So, either the leds are flickering and inducing the noise (not likely) or the inverter's waveform is distorting and causing the flicker. I have about a dozen 4' lights in my shop, 4 different brands/wattage and they all flicker at the same time.

My conclusion that it's the inverter and noise on the waveform causing the led lights to flicker is simple. I get flicker when using the Lv6048 and capture noise on the waveform and I don't when using lv6548's with a clean waveform on the exact same led lights. I also isolated the light circuit so the led lights were the only load.

Of course, Your mileage will vary.... and until someone actually tries using a noise filter like I bought to see if it works, the jury remains out. Perhaps I'll do that over the winter when there's nothing else to do.
 
Hard to see due to the phone camera shutter speed but it is there

It's easier to see when I did not have the correct range scope. Dances around like a wet noodle.
 
nofear72784 said:
We should not have to noise filter 6.5kw of output to use an inverter with lights or a UPS.
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I totally agree, but we should not be outsourcing so much of this stuff to China....but we do and we get questionable products and components as a result. So, we get cheap, sometimes malfunctioning products billed as quality. It's the price we currently pay.
 
Jazzmonger said:
I totally agree, but we should not be outsourcing so much of this stuff to China....but we do and we get questionable products and components as a result. So, we get cheap, sometimes malfunctioning products billed as quality. It's the price we currently pay.
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Some serious truth in that. Lost my last job to outsourcing and downsizing.
 
nofear72784 said:
Hard to see due to the phone camera shutter speed but it is there
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nofear72784 said:
Hard to see due to the phone camera shutter speed but it is there

It's easier to see when I did not have the correct range scope. Dances around like a wet noodle.
Click to expand...
What kind of inverter is that? It is NOT producing a pure sine wave.
 

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Jazzmonger said:
What kind of inverter is that? It is NOT producing a pure sine wave.
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The flat spot is clipping due to the lower range of that scope. That is why I found a scope with a larger range. You can see the shifting in the wave better on the scope with the blue backlight.
 
Not sure how I would characterize that scope because the settings are all whacked. You need a proper trigger point (ideally the zero crossing) in order to characterize the jitter. The frequency you are reading with the scope is all over the place and doesn’t seem normal.

In the really old school scope, the waveform isn’t perfectly smooth but that’s the same for simulated sine wave UPS. Can you increase the persistence to get a picture of the long trend of the sine wave.
 
goldserve said:
Not sure how I would characterize that scope because the settings are all whacked. You need a proper trigger point (ideally the zero crossing) in order to characterize the jitter. The frequency you are reading with the scope is all over the place and doesn’t seem normal.
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It is 100% not normal. Leds flicker and it tripps all the UPS's in the house, 4 in total. 1 basic unit running the ONT, 1 TripLite running network switches, 1 Cyberpower on a server and another Cyberpower on the main desktop PC. We have a Panamax on some equipment and that takes care of the issues and never shows a fault. Remove the Panamax and the TV is not happy and the amplifiers have a significant noise floor that is not there otherwise.
 
nofear72784 said:
It is 100% not normal. Leds flicker and it tripps all the UPS's in the house, 4 in total.
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I’m not doubting something is not normal but from what I see in those YouTube videos, it’s not showing the real problem because there are some basic instrumentation issues. If the frequency jumps around that much from cycle to cycle, that’s a lot of distortion. The problem wouldn’t be from bad sine wave or amplitude excursion, etc.
 
Therein lies the million dollar question... 3 people here that have the unit have this issue along with an owner of an MPP LV6548 with YCCfans. Only commonality is the DC fans. All the review MPP units, EG4's etc all have different fans and no one is seeing these issues.
 
With proper instrumentation, you could try to disconnect the fan and see if you see any difference in your lights and the scope shots. It would have to be a VERY poor design for some 12v dc noise to make it all the way back through the stages of regulation and ultimately the boost converter to sine wave output.
 
nofear72784 said:
Therein lies the million dollar question... 3 people here that have the unit have this issue along with an owner of an MPP LV6548 with YCCfans. Only commonality is the DC fans. All the review MPP units, EG4's etc all have different fans and no one is seeing these issues.
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Maybe the brand of fan is just an indication of a different design altogether. Maybe some detailed internal shots would help solve this mystery.
 
So, back to my earlier posts about a possible fix. I installed type 31 chokes on the 3 fans and that killed the flicker. But, without PV input the fan speed was low. When I get home from work there should be some decent production and I will check again.
 
That's a pretty sad design if the cooling fans result in output AC waveform distortion.

I'm curious what you'll find later.
 
I also ordered some fans just for the heck of it. That would be step 2. I have used these in server builds and never had a problem. They are 4800 RPM 80mm units. OEM units are 5000rpm so it shouldn't trigger the tach signal fan alarm. This would require taking the unit down and changing the fan connector so that will have to wait for a rainy day.
 
Now that you mention it, my LVX6048 made the cheaper lights in my house periodically flicker the one time I used it to power my main panel during an outage. I didn't time it but the interval seemed pretty regular.
 
I was looking through used parts on ebay - amazon the other day and come accross something simular to what Jazzmonger posted. I was thinking it would be interesting to test one of these out to see if it can somehow filter the sign wave. Just an FYI to anyone reading this I've found UPS will trip out if your power source strays from 60 hz too much. For example if you set an inverter on 50hz and plug in a decent UPS that is set to use 60hz power it will trip out instantly.
D6F64B5C-B223-40CF-8BF7-4132C820CCF9.jpeg
 
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Sky Noris said:
I was looking through used parts on ebay - amazon the other day and come accross something simular to what Jazzmonger posted. I was thinking it would be interesting to test one of these out to see if it can somehow filter the sign wave. Just an FYI to anyone reading this I've found UPS will trip out if your power source strays from 60 hz too much. For example if you set an inverter on 50hz and plug in a decent UPS set up to use 60hz power it will trip out instantly.
View attachment 105442
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The ups tripping makes much more sense as a frequency aspect versus voltage amplitude and how clean the sine wave is. The ups can be set as low as 90v and 140v but I’ve never seen anything as to how sensitive to frequency they are.

I am curious to see really good scope shots with trigger at zero crossing and measuring the frequency that way.
 
Negative, still flicker under PV. No PV, no flicker so deff on the right track. Amazon delivered one fan, other 2 are "delayed"
 
Sky Noris said:
I was looking through used parts on ebay - amazon the other day and come accross something simular to what Jazzmonger posted. I was thinking it would be interesting to test one of these out to see if it can somehow filter the sign wave. Just an FYI to anyone reading this I've found UPS will trip out if your power source strays from 60 hz too much. For example if you set an inverter on 50hz and plug in a decent UPS that is set to use 60hz power it will trip out instantly.
View attachment 105442
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Since I am playing guinea pig I ordered a 10A and 30A filter. We shall see!
 
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